Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[TheMaxRebo]

I think there's a few ways of looking at this. I am of the opinion that Ben had to die and did redeem himself by saving Rey. I am not against atonement and redemption, even for a murderer of that caliber. However, I also look at the dichotomy of The Force and the Sith from that "certain point of view" that Obi Wan does - that Ben Solo and Kylo Ren are distinct in some ways, as was Vader and Anakin or really any Sith - when they fall to the Dark Side, they essentially cease to be their former selves. Certainly they are connected and there is a matter of shared responsibility, but in seeing that separation, I find it easier to accept a redemption, be it Anakin's or Ben's.

I get that from a character standpoint but the physical form/person was the comander of the enemy army. The new republic wouldn't just let him wall away free - he'd have to pay for his war crimes. Maybe they lessen his sentence because of the help he provided at the end so he is just imprissioned for life instead of put to death

 

[TomServo27]

I finally saw it again and my initial opinion holds up. I don't know if it will go down as my favorite of all of them, but it's up there. It's definitely the best of the Sequel Trilogy and probably the best of all the Disney produced movies as well (the first numbered episode to be better than the spin-offs in my opinion). Once I have it at home and can watch it at will we will see where it settles in.

Just wondering where you and others would rank season 1 of the Mandalorian in comparison to the Disney produced movies. For me it’s not even close and I’ve liked all the movies for the most part Mando is number 1.

 

[BrianL]

I get that from a character standpoint but the physical form/person was the comander of the enemy army. The new republic wouldn't just let him wall away free - he'd have to pay for his war crimes. Maybe they lessen his sentence because of the help he provided at the end so he is just imprissioned for life instead of put to death

No, I agree. He had to die to complete his redemption - or else balance the scales in some huge way. I don't think The New New Republic would let him off the hook, nor should they. One could still have sympathy for him though and see it as a corruption of his true self.

 

[BrianL]

Just wondering where you and others would rank season 1 of the Mandalorian in comparison to the Disney produced movies. For me it’s not even close and I’ve liked all the movies for the most part Mando is number 1.

It's hard to rank that as they are different animals. A TV series is long-form with various episodes usually of varying quality. I've always said that the best of Clone Wars is the best of Star Wars, but not all epsiodes are that good. I don't like to average it out like that though - like Rebels is a stronger series overall compared to Clone Wars, but the best episodes of Clone Wars are better than the best episodes of Rebels - Rebels just had fewer weak episodes as a whole (of course there are not as many). That said, the best episodes of Mando, probably the one with the prison ship escape and the last two, are very, very strong probably better than several of the films. I think I like TROS best though because I really like the big ideas and especially the heart. Mando is a bit more subtle, which is also good - it's great that they have things with different styles like that.

 

[Mome Rath]

So, they now have The Last Jedi on Disney + with the director's commentary. I just watched the whole thing with Rian's thoughts, and I think two things stood out for me; 1) It was too big of a movie to hand to a relatively new director (in regards to doing a full studio driven movie esp. one as important as this), and 2) It seemed he may have been too interested in paying homage to other movies (even from other genres) and not enough with paying homage to the source material that is held so reverential by hard core fans. That can be done (look at Mando, that married it all so well), but he didn't pull it off.

There were also some instances where he should have let the movie be dark and serious and quit trying to add comedic effect into every tense scene. All of that is why I think JJ did the reverse in Rise, and wound up with such a good Star Wars movie... not just a good movie. He paid homage to the source material, he let it be dark, and he had more experience with big budget studio movies. I "get" that some don't like the movie and that's to be expected, but for trying to handle all the storylines, and salvage some of Rian's issues, I think JJ did excellent.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

...quit trying to add comedic effect into every tense scene.

This is what I see as TLJ's biggest flaw... so much "slapstick" comedy and one-liners just rapid-fire nearly once every minute or so.
I re-watched TLJ recently and actually used a stopwatch to time how long between "silly" moments. For much of the film they come between 3 minutes and 30 seconds apart. There are only a few stretches of 7-12 minutes without an over-the-top "funny" moment.

Star Wars has always had some comedy, but TLJ made it so pervasive that the actual funny moments, had they been the only ones and more sparse would have connected with audiences more. But it just felt like the director was trying to create a laugh-riot comedy. The truly humorous moments were weakened by the overkill of a comedy barrage more pervasive than Kylo's fleet of walkers firing on Luke!

My least favorite scene is when the stampede is crashing through the casino and we are treated to ridiculous reactions by the guests. The soprano scream/singing convinced me I was watching "Beauty & the Beast" by accident and that was Jo Anne Worley as the wardrobe.

Despite all of that, I didn't "hate" TLJ. I certainly think it has some merit overall and several really good scenes. I just wish there weren't so many "cringe-worthy" scenes surrounding them.

 

[tlmadden73]

Just wondering where you and others would rank season 1 of the Mandalorian in comparison to the Disney produced movies. For me it’s not even close and I’ve liked all the movies for the most part Mando is number 1.

The Mando was pretty awesome compared to the sequel movies. It was just more "adult" than the Disney movies (except maybe Rogue One).

Really .. I have enjoyed the sequel trilogy and was "fun" .. but the Mandalorian hit on all cylinders almost every episode.

 

[tlmadden73]

So, they now have The Last Jedi on Disney + with the director's commentary. I just watched the whole thing with Rian's thoughts, and I think two things stood out for me; 1) It was too big of a movie to hand to a relatively new director (in regards to doing a full studio driven movie esp. one as important as this), and 2) It seemed he may have been too interested in paying homage to other movies (even from other genres) and not enough with paying homage to the source material that is held so reverential by hard core fans. That can be done (look at Mando, that married it all so well), but he didn't pull it off.

There were also some instances where he should have let the movie be dark and serious and quit trying to add comedic effect into every tense scene. All of that is why I think JJ did the reverse in Rise, and wound up with such a good Star Wars movie... not just a good movie. He paid homage to the source material, he let it be dark, and he had more experience with big budget studio movies. I "get" that some don't like the movie and that's to be expected, but for trying to handle all the storylines, and salvage some of Rian's issues, I think JJ did excellent.

Ya. I rewatched TLJ recently too and it don't hate it as much as I originally did, but the comedy is jarring. Rise did comedy right with the re-introduction of C-3PO as the comedic force.

After watching Rise (been a week and half now - been on vacation and haven't been on here) .. it makes me dislike TLJ more though .. as it feels like JJ was forced to make episode 8 1/2 and 9 in the same movie .... since he had to "undo" a lot of Rian's choices in TLJ and "set up" the ending of Rise (which the Last Jedi didn't do). ... which reminded me .. did they ever explain what happened to Luke's saber after it was destroyed at the end of TLJ? Was that just a silent retcon or an implied "Leia fixed it?"

That's the problem with having different directors (and apparently no over arching story group to take full control) for a 3 part series.
The Force Awakens sets up some "mystery boxes" that the Last Jedi simply throws away (in some cases literally) .. The Last Jedi wanted to set up some huge political message.

 

[BrianL]

did they ever explain what happened to Luke's saber after it was destroyed at the end of TLJ? Was that just a silent retcon or an implied "Leia fixed it?"

They never really said, but someone fixed it and you can see that there is now some kind of strap to cover where it was broken. Someone was able to do it, which isn't really a stretch as long as the crystal was intact.

 

[Boski]

Just wondering where you and others would rank season 1 of the Mandalorian in comparison to the Disney produced movies. For me it’s not even close and I’ve liked all the movies for the most part Mando is number 1.

Rouge One is easily (IMO) the best of the Disney produced SW content.

 

[mcjaco]

Rogue One is the best. I like the Mandalorian (ep. 1 and 2.....then 6, 7 and 8). The middle of the series just meandered. I also feel like the reveal of the Dark Saber came way too early. I'm actually a bit fearful of Season 2. I get the feeling they're writing these episodes on the fly, much like the current trilogy.

Rebels....man I loved that series. I started watching Clone Wars with my kids. I like it, but not as much as Rebels.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Rogue One is the best. I like the Mandalorian (ep. 1 and 2.....then 6, 7 and 8). The middle of the series just meandered. I also feel like the reveal of the Dark Saber came way too early. I'm actually a bit fearful of Season 2. I get the feeling they're writing these episodes on the fly, much like the current trilogy.

Rebels....man I loved that series. I started watching Clone Wars with my kids. I like it, but not as much as Rebels.

There is some good stuff with the Clone Wars but it is also a bit all over the place. I am sure there is a list out there of like "just watch these dozen episodes" to get the main story arc. I do like how it adds a lot to Anakin's evolution and distrust of the Jedi council / leaning towards the dark side ... and also introduces a lot of cool characters (Ahsoka, Cad Bane, Duthess Satine, etc.)

 

[Mome Rath]

They never really said, but someone fixed it and you can see that there is no some kind of strap to cover where it was broken. Someone was able to do it, which isn't really a stretch as long as the crystal was intact.

Yes, and you can see Rey holding the two pieces while she is sitting next to Leia, and I think you can see the blue crystal in one half of it, though I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be cut through or whole.

The other interesting bit I noticed from TLJ; Ben's original saber was blue.

 

[Mikey15]

I like the Mandalorian (ep. 1 and 2.....then 6, 7 and 8). The middle of the series just meandered. I also feel like the reveal of the Dark Saber came way too early. I'm actually a bit fearful of Season 2. I get the feeling they're writing these episodes on the fly, much like the current trilogy.

Did we watch the same show? The last half of 3 was jaw-dropping. 4 introduced an important character and established that it doesn't matter where he'd hide, they'd come for him and the child, so he had to address the Guild issue head-on. If anything 5 & 6 were the filler, but 7 & 8 stuck the landing by bringing back everything that 1-4 set up and left us all wanting more.

I'm really happy with how they planned out the season arc and I think they can take it to Breaking Bad level for Season 2.

 

[mcjaco]

Did we watch the same show? The last half of 3 was jaw-dropping. 4 introduced an important character and established that it doesn't matter where he'd hide, they'd come for him and the child, so he had to address the Guild issue head-on. If anything 5 & 6 were the filler, but 7 & 8 stuck the landing by bringing back everything that 1-4 set up and left us all wanting more.

I'm really happy with how they planned out the season arc and I think they can take it to Breaking Bad level for Season 2.

I liked the end of Ep. 3, but as a whole, I felt the season really had no direction from week to week. I know a lot of people loved Ep. 6, but I thought it was just okay. I've read a lot of the same feedback on the season. Overall it was good, but there didn't seem to be a over arching plot from episode to episode, and the pace was slow.

I liked it, and watched it every week (Fridays couldn't come soon enough), but felt it wasn't as strong as it could have been.

 

[BrianL]

I liked the end of Ep. 3, but as a whole, I felt the season really had no direction from week to week. I know a lot of people loved Ep. 6, but I thought it was just okay. I've read a lot of the same feedback on the season. Overall it was good, but there didn't seem to be a over arching plot from episode to episode, and the pace was slow.

I liked it, and watched it every week (Fridays couldn't come soon enough), but felt it wasn't as strong as it could have been.

It's not really that kind of show, though. It's more like Star Trek - with a single situation each week. That's why it wasn't released all at once - it's just differently constructed than most of the shows people binge these days. There is a light overarching plot involving the Child, but each episode stands alone too. I found this to be a good thing!

 

[maverik85]

That's true but I don't think most of the galaxy would have viewed it that way. They'd have wanted him to pay for what he had done. Not in the movies but looking at the canon books and comics shows he wouldn't be accepted. Leia got plenty of flack and essentially lost her senate position because she was Vader's daughter. She herself never did anything and even helped to bring him down but people still saw her as untrustworthy and tainted because of her connection to Vader. So doubt many would have been that open to the person that directly caused so many deaths.

 

[TexasErin]

I don't get the JJ hate, but I've been a fan going back to the 'Alias' days. Some say he's just a wannabe Spielberg, but I think like Spielberg that JJ will someday be on the Oscar stage

OT, but I love JJ! Lost is my favorite show of all time! I thought 11/22/63 was amazing....the only time I’ve ever loved a movie (mini-series) even more than a book. I also really enjoyed Castlerock, but I haven’t watched the second season yet.

 

[LizzyS]

I think there's a few ways of looking at this. I am of the opinion that Ben had to die and did redeem himself by saving Rey. I am not against atonement and redemption, even for a murderer of that caliber. However, I also look at the dichotomy of The Force and the Sith from that "certain point of view" that Obi Wan does - that Ben Solo and Kylo Ren are distinct in some ways, as was Vader and Anakin or really any Sith - when they fall to the Dark Side, they essentially cease to be their former selves. Certainly they are connected and there is a matter of shared responsibility, but in seeing that separation, I find it easier to accept a redemption, be it Anakin's or Ben's.

That's my train of thought as well.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Eisner has chimed in on Rise of Skywalker and Mandelorian if anyone interested:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1212063407010021383