Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[bladiator]

I too found it odd that so much time was spent at the end of TFA to hand off the lightsaber and then it was just over very quickly at the beginning of TLJ.

I chalk that up to ol' JJ spending about 40 seconds too long watching someone hold a metal baton out towards another person who did not move to take it. Not RJ's fault that he wanted to do the longest spiral shot of all time of that after already watching them stand silently for an awkward period of time.

But I wanted to go down to toshi station and get some power converterrrrrssss!

I have been saying this to everyone! "Good to see that Mark Hamill brought back his award winning whining after all these years. He's still got it!"

 

[umichigan10]

I was a big proponent of the continuing story post Return of the Jedi but I'm not so sure anymore. I am now thinking I would like to see a complete reboot and overhaul of SW. Though I think this film could have been better, I am also sympathetic of fact that its hard to continue with the creative ideas of another person. I think we need a different story from another time, no references of what we know. Maybe not even the rebels vs empire theme. A complete new story written out over 3 to 6 films.

Your comment brought about a couple of thoughts:

1. I feel like the EU was so diverse and fun that you could find a story that you could like along the way (I’m not too too knowledgeable but I’ve heard of the Thrawn series and such). When they announced this series you were never going to make everyone happy because they’ve had 30 years to imagine their own reality. And shen that reality doesn’t meet then people get upset.

2. I 100% agree with your second point and am really excited to see RJ do a stand-alone trilogy. Say what you want about TLJ but he’s an incredibly gifted cinematographer and TLJ had some beautiful shots. I think giving him a blank canvas for story ideas will make most everyone appreciate his talent

 

[LSLS]

2. I 100% agree with your second point and am really excited to see RJ do a stand-alone trilogy. Say what you want about TLJ but he’s an incredibly gifted cinematographer and TLJ had some beautiful shots. I think giving him a blank canvas for story ideas will make most everyone appreciate his talent

I'm a bit torn on this. I agree with you, the shots were just amazing. But I really did not like how much the movie dragged in the middle. The plot holes I can overlook a bit (at least the ones that came from the TFA into TLJ), as I really do think part of that can be chalked up to two different directors having different visions (and that won't be an issue if he does his own trilogy), but I hope he can focus a lot more in his own.

 

[umichigan10]

I'm a bit torn on this. I agree with you, the shots were just amazing. But I really did not like how much the movie dragged in the middle. The plot holes I can overlook a bit (at least the ones that came from the TFA into TLJ), as I really do think part of that can be chalked up to two different directors having different visions (and that won't be an issue if he does his own trilogy), but I hope he can focus a lot more in his own.

Yeah I can agree the movie didn’t need to be 2.5 hours. It felt like they wanted to do some serious character development with Rey and kylo (which I liked) but had to tie up the resistance, so they sent Finn and Rose on some wild goose chase for 45 minutes.

I mentioned this before in the thread but agree with your point about the directors. I think you can really blame Disney for not having an overarching vision for this trilogy , and then playing hot potato with the directors. You’re bound to have continuity issues when that happens

 

[skier_pete]

This movie is really dropping like a rock at the box office!

I don't get this statement...I keep seeing people posting this...are people just posting this because you want it to be true?

Rogue one $25.8 million on Christmas Day last year (which was a Sunday BTW) and was at $286 million domestic having opened on December 15th.

TLJ made $27.9 million on Christmas Day this year, and was at $395 million domestic having opened December 14th, one day earlier.

Is it on track for TFA numbers? Of course not - and no-one ever expected that. TFA was never going to be repeatable...it was the first new star wars movie in 10 years, and the first good one in 30 years. TLJ will definitely pass Rogue One, will likely pass The Dark Knight, and probably Avengers to make Top 5 domestic box office all time. I think getting past Jurassic World may be a stretch - but it should end up between $600-650 million domestic, and over $1 billion interntational, which is going to have no-one at Disney crying. I'm sure they are not happy about the internet backlash, but I don't see it holding back the box office one bit.

 

[jkh36619]

I don't get this statement...I keep seeing people posting this...are people just posting this because you want it to be true?

Rogue one $25.8 million on Christmas Day last year (which was a Sunday BTW) and was at $286 million domestic having opened on December 15th.

TLJ made $27.9 million on Christmas Day this year, and was at $395 million domestic having opened December 14th, one day earlier.

Is it on track for TFA numbers? Of course not - and no-one ever expected that. TFA was never going to be repeatable...it was the first new star wars movie in 10 years, and the first good one in 30 years. TLJ will definitely pass Rogue One, will likely pass The Dark Knight, and probably Avengers to make Top 5 domestic box office all time. I think getting past Jurassic World may be a stretch - but it should end up between $600-650 million domestic, and over $1 billion interntational, which is going to have no-one at Disney crying. I'm sure they are not happy about the internet backlash, but I don't see it holding back the box office one bit.

quote from wikipedia

After dropping by 76% on its second Friday, the worst Friday-to-Friday drop in the series, the film fell by a total of 67.5% in its second weekend, grossing $71.6 million

 

[jkh36619]

Yeah I can agree the movie didn’t need to be 2.5 hours. It felt like they wanted to do some serious character development with Rey and kylo (which I liked) but had to tie up the resistance, so they sent Finn and Rose on some wild goose chase for 45 minutes.

I mentioned this before in the thread but agree with your point about the directors. I think you can really blame Disney for not having an overarching vision for this trilogy , and then playing hot potato with the directors. You’re bound to have continuity issues when that happens

Exactly.

 

[skier_pete]

quote from wikipedia

After dropping by 76% on its second Friday, the worst Friday-to-Friday drop in the series, the film fell by a total of 67.5% in its second weekend, grossing $71.6 million

OK - But the Force Awakens 2nd Friday was Christmas Day - and it still dropped 65% Friday to Friday.

Again, it's all spin to try and make it look bad. Looks like it took 3 movies but Star Wars backlash is in full affect.

 

[DVCcurious]

Exactly.

That's not true. Disney had an overarching vision for the trilogy:

ka-ching
ka-ching
ka-ching

And so far their vision has played out to perfection!


One good thing about this movie was the pro-breast feeding scene. Our society needs more reminders that "breast is best".

 

[jkh36619]

OK - But the Force Awakens 2nd Friday was Christmas Day - and it still dropped 65% Friday to Friday.

Again, it's all spin to try and make it look bad. Looks like it took 3 movies but Star Wars backlash is in full affect.

I dont think anyone is saying its not making money. They guy just said its dropping. As far as TFA, I'm seeing where 2nd weekend only dropped 39% in US and Canada and 51% internationally.

Im not digging to deep. Just going by wiki has to say about TFA

"Revenues in the film's second weekend decreased by only 39.8% in the United States and Canada, earning $149.2 million, to remain in first place at the box office[329] and recording the biggest second weekend of all time.[330] Revenues from IMAX dipped slightly, generating $19 million in its second weekend, for a record total of over $70 million in 10 days.[331] Internationally, the film had a steeper decline in its second weekend, falling 51% to $136.9 million.[332] Of the notable major markets, the film had an unsuccessful opening in India where it opened third against two local blockbusters with a mere $1.51 million.[333] As of February 21, the largest markets outside of the United States and Canada are the United Kingdom ($180.7 million), China ($124.5 million), Germany ($109.7 million), Japan ($92.6 million) and France ($88.2 million)"

 

[jkh36619]

That's not true. Disney had an overarching vision for the trilogy:

ka-ching
ka-ching
ka-ching

And so far their vision has played out to perfection!


One good thing about this movie was the pro-breast feeding scene. Our society needs more reminders that "breast is best".

I really do wonder who thought that was a great addition to the movie...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yeah I can agree the movie didn’t need to be 2.5 hours. It felt like they wanted to do some serious character development with Rey and kylo (which I liked) but had to tie up the resistance, so they sent Finn and Rose on some wild goose chase for 45 minutes.

We’ve discussed this in our house as well. Consensus among the six of us is that they could have cut the entire Finn/Rose story and the film would have been better.

We get ZERO chemistry there at all, don’t like her character, really didn’t like that planet storyline at all, and think they missed an opportunity to develop Finn’s character a bit instead. A stormtrooper who chooses to defect — you’d think they could do more with that character-wise. Not sure he’s such a great actor though... gives me a Mark Hammil vs. a Harrison Ford vibe...

 

[Ariel484]

Yeah I can agree the movie didn’t need to be 2.5 hours. It felt like they wanted to do some serious character development with Rey and kylo (which I liked) but had to tie up the resistance, so they sent Finn and Rose on some wild goose chase for 45 minutes.

We’ve discussed this in our house as well. Consensus among the six of us is that they could have cut the entire Finn/Rose story and the film would have been better.

We get ZERO chemistry there at all, don’t like her character, really didn’t like that planet storyline at all, and think they missed an opportunity to develop Finn’s character a bit instead. A stormtrooper who chooses to defect — you’d think they could do more with that character-wise. Not sure he’s such a great actor though... gives me a Mark Hammil vs. a Harrison Ford vibe...

I agree with both of these points. My biggest issue with the movie is that it was way too long (I actually found myself nodding off a couple of times ). I thought Finn was a pretty interesting character in TFA but in this movie it seemed like he only 1.) Asked where Rey was, 2.) shouted WOO! (gave me serious Avengers vibes, and I'm not an Avengers fan), and 3.) went on that random, unnecessary mission. When Rose was all "BTW I love you" and kissed him I was just like "...okay that was random "


--------------
I'm bummed that Luke is dead but at the same, time, I think it makes sense and I think (hope!) we'll see him come back in Episode IX. I thought Leia Poppins (major LOL to whoever came up with that!) was lame and that Purple Hair was unnecessary (I thought she'd end up being bad but then wasn't...she was just pretty random). My favorite scene was the Throne Room battle - that set was visually stunning and the choreography of the fight itself was great. Other favorites included Rey/Luke, Luke/Kylo and Kylo/Rey scenes (was totally expecting them to end up being twins or something, so I'm glad they didn't go that route...for now), and Luke brushing his shoulder off (also Avengers-like, but somehow Mark Hamill doing it is okay in my mind? ).

And I KNEW I recognized General Hux from somewhere - Bill Weasley! Related note, Snoke "planting" the visions between Rey and Kylo gave me serious Voldemort/Harry Potter/Legilimency vibes.

I'm a newer, more casual Star Wars fan and I'd rank this movie behind Rogue One (my favorite), TFA and the OT, and ahead of the Prequels. I think I'll appreciate it more when the new trilogy is done and I can watch all 3 together.

 

[Redcon1]

Yeah I can agree the movie didn’t need to be 2.5 hours. It felt like they wanted to do some serious character development with Rey and kylo (which I liked) but had to tie up the resistance, so they sent Finn and Rose on some wild goose chase for 45 minutes.

I mentioned this before in the thread but agree with your point about the directors. I think you can really blame Disney for not having an overarching vision for this trilogy , and then playing hot potato with the directors. You’re bound to have continuity issues when that happens

I agree with the Rey/Kylo and Rey/Luke relationships. It made for a much deeper connection to the characters similar to what was done in ESB. To me, those were some of the most effective and well-written parts of the film.

On another note, do you think Disney is having second thoughts about giving Johnson his own trilogy?
Not because of TLJ's quality (which I think is outstanding), but because of the backlash?

 

[Angeliki19]

Finally saw it last night and couldn't wait to get over here and join the debate. I am not surprised to find that this movie is polarizing. When people have such high expectations, its bound to let some people down.

Personally, I really enjoyed it and can't wait to see it again. I won't go into all of my thoughts b/c most of them have been discussed already, but I'll say that:

1. I loved Luke's arc. In the beginning of the movie he was reminiscent of his younger bratty self, mixed with how Yoda behaved when he first sought him out. It may not be what I was immediately expecting, but after thinking about it, it totally makes sense and feels right. We see his character flaws (with his treatment of the Ben situation) and that he still has something to learn from Yoda. In fact, that scene where he and Yoda are watching the tree burn is one of my favorite from the film... at first I was like "wait, would Yoda really burn that down?", but I think it was all in an effort to teach Luke something, and that teacher/student relationship reminded me of the OT and therefore felt like an appropriate set up to what would eventually be the end for Luke. I shed a tear at his final scene.
   
2. I totally agree with what others have said about Snoke.. I actually came home and wikipedia'd him because I want to know where the hell he was during the OT since presumably he was alive somewhere. I think I am going to start reading all the canon books to fill in some of the blanks... as other PP's have said, you can't tie up everything in a 2 hour movie. We are lucky that those answers are out there, if we know where to look!
3. Didn't love the casino scenes, but also wasn't bothered by them. Felt a little like an homage to the cantina. Just like with the humor, you can either look at this stuff as gratuitous, or see it as an homage to the OT, which were cheesy and campy at times. I appreciate it for what it is, and laughed several times throughout the movie.
   
4. I did feel that the sense of loss and sacrifice was heavy in this movie, and I was glad, because that was one of the things I found so moving in Rogue One.
   
5. Rey's parentage- I am not sure if I buy that they were nobodies.... however, the movie does seem to be setting up for what other PP's have also mentioned.. that anybody can use the force. Its a radical departure from the SW tradition of "chosen ones" and heirs apparent, etc., but what an epic and powerful statement to end the story.

For the record, I am a child of the 80's and grew up watching the OT on VHS so consider myself a lifelong fan. I don't feel like SW owes me anything... I can sit back and appreciate each movie (even episodes 1-3) for entertaining me and telling me stories about characters I love. Overall I think that TLJ has a much more human feel to it... even "masters" have flaws, nobodies can be heroes, etc. I think it was an appropriate "bridge" movie and can't wait to see IX!

 

[skier_pete]

On another note, do you think Disney is having second thoughts about giving Johnson his own trilogy?
Not because of TLJ's quality (which I think is outstanding), but because of the backlash?

That's an excellent question...from interviews with him, it seems like ALL the decisions he made in this movie were completely OK'd by Lucasfilm brass and the powers that be, so it's not like he wasn't doing what they wanted, and that was probably also the reason he was given his own trilogy.

I think the big question really is - how big really is the "backlash". I mean, it's clearly a very outspoken portion of the fanbase, but I get the feeling the actual percentage is pretty small. I mean, based on threads like this and talking to other people, I think the percentage of people that genuinely HATED the film is actually very small - maybe 5 %. It's definitely not universally liked - but I am not sure that's enough for them to decide not to let him proceed. (Based on my conversations, I'd say it's about 60% really liked it or loved it, 20 % were sort of meh, and 20 % don't like it or hate it.)

What's interesting in reading an interview with him - the same one he was talking about the "baton passing" between episodes - he also indicated that he is putting together an overall arc for the three movies, but that he likely will only write and direct the first one. The idea of a story spread arc through 3 movies is much more appealing to me.

So, back to question, will he still get the trilogy...I think so. Lucasfilm has clearly had a problem with filmmakers not named JJ Abrahms. Though Rogue One came out fine, they had a lot of problems with Gareth Edwards and a lot of reshoots. Then the whole Miller/Lord debacle with Solo, not to mention Josh Trank and Colin Trevorrow getting the boot before their movies ever got to the production stage. The fact that we heard about ZERO issues with Rian Johnson AND they offered him his own trilogy really says something for the collaborative way he must have been willing to work with Lucasfilm. So, my answer is - I think he still gets the "trilogy", though whether it really happens with all 3 movies under his lead will depend a lot on what happens with the FIRST movie.

 

[skier_pete]

In fact, that scene where he and Yoda are watching the tree burn is one of my favorite from the film... at first I was like "wait, would Yoda really burn that down?", but I think it was all in an effort to teach Luke something, and that teacher/student relationship reminded me of the OT and therefore felt like an appropriate set up to what would eventually be the end for Luke.

So, I didn't really think about it until after leaving the movie, but at the very end of the movie, Finn opens a drawer and the Jedi texts are in the drawer. So Rey had already swiped those when she left, and while Luke didn't know that, there's a good chance that force ghost Yoda did.

Rey's parentage- I am not sure if I buy that they were nobodies.... however, the movie does seem to be setting up for what other PP's have also mentioned.. that anybody can use the force. Its a radical departure from the SW tradition of "chosen ones" and heirs apparent, etc., but what an epic and powerful statement to end the story.

I agree that I really like that as well...and I really hope they stick with Rey being from nobody. I think if you backtrack on that now...it will seem (a) like a response to whiny fanboys and (b) will make the overall arc seem even more directionless. I think what really, really interesting here...if handled right...that this movie continue from XII...was that the force "Awakened" in Rey. She grew up with no sense of the force, but in XII suddenly she became aware of her powers, yet is extremely strong in the force. It actually makes me think is she the "chosen one". You mentioned the tradition of "chosen ones" but really there is only one character like that (Anakin) and only anakin's kid (Luke) that inherits the powers. All other Jedi were sought out as children. I think that this movie just does a better job of showing us that. The last shot of the kid using the force is such a great closing moment to sum that up.

One of my favorite things of this movie is...I have no idea where it goes next. TFA felt like it was setting up something very specific....a series that was going to go in the same pattern as the original...and instead TLJ tears that down. How do they wrap this all up with one more movie? I feel like they have to almost jump ahead several years now to really set up a "final" battle between Rey and Kylo...because in the end, that's where it HAS to go...right?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I really do wonder who thought that was a great addition to the movie...

whether on Ahch-tu or the Casino scene it seems like there was an effort in this movie to introduce more "interesting" creatures (sort of like what the Cantina scene and just Tatooine in general did in A New Hope)

I also just took it as Luke trying to show how remote he is living now and how hard it is to live on Ahch-tu to tie into his statement of the fact he specifically went to some place he couldn't be found. I don't think it was an excellent scene or anything but also didn't hate it - it's a 10 second scene in a nearly 3 hour movie doesn't seem like that big of a deal

 

[TheMaxRebo]

We’ve discussed this in our house as well. Consensus among the six of us is that they could have cut the entire Finn/Rose story and the film would have been better.

We get ZERO chemistry there at all, don’t like her character, really didn’t like that planet storyline at all, and think they missed an opportunity to develop Finn’s character a bit instead. A stormtrooper who chooses to defect — you’d think they could do more with that character-wise. Not sure he’s such a great actor though... gives me a Mark Hammil vs. a Harrison Ford vibe...

Well, they still did need to tie-up the Finn vs Phasma storyline (which is more developed in the background books than in the movies) but that could have been handled more elegantly

And Rose does represent the "new" rebels and the new way of thinking and the "new new hope" - again, could have been handled more elegantly and in less time

The Casino part seems like a) they wanted something to be the new trilogy's Cantina scene with lots of different aliens, etc. and b) was where they were making the political statement of the film as most Star Wars movies have something to say about the current climate

I think it could definitely have been shortened (and also hated the set-up with contacted Maz, etc.) but I get the ideas they were going for.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm a newer, more casual Star Wars fan and I'd rank this movie behind Rogue One (my favorite), TFA and the OT, and ahead of the Prequels. I think I'll appreciate it more when the new trilogy is done and I can watch all 3 together.

I do see this film as altering some of the things set up in TFA and setting up others - and how that all plays out in Episode IX I think will be key to looking back on final view of Episode VIII

I was very young when the original trilogy came out but I am sure views of Episode V changed over time after Episode VI came out and the full story arc was known