Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[TheMaxRebo]

I DESPISED Avatar in part for the political 2x4 to the head for 2hrs (though the horrid dialogue was the greatest sin in that film IMO). I think there are shades of political ideology in TLJ (evil rich people exploiting the meek, non-Jedi-royalty who shall inherit the galaxy that’s currently being ruined by said rich people). But I don’t think it’s anywhere near as much as you’re saying — JMO. And it didn’t take away from the film enough for me.

I know it has a particular meaning these days, but a “resistance” rising up is pretty standard language. Is it any different than fighting an evil “empire”? Meh.

I will say I did appreciate where they showed that the "rich" were selling weapons to both the First Order and the Republic - showing that it isn't a good vs bad thing but that both sides do what they need to in order to get ahead, etc / no one is "clean"

 

[skier_pete]

I will say I did appreciate where they showed that the "rich" were selling weapons to both the First Order and the Republic - showing that it isn't a good vs bad thing but that both sides do what they need to in order to get ahead, etc / no one is "clean"

I felt that was a bit ham-handed though - and more of indictment of those wealthy arms trafficers that make money from BOTH sides in a war - not that the resistance is not all good. In fact, it was probably the closest Star Wars has really come to the "real" world in terms on any sort of statement - but really it was such a minor point it just seemed forced. (Pardon THAT pun.)

I have a hard time calling the resistance / rebellion anything but "good", after all - the Empire / First Order is truly a fascist regime which basically crushes anyone that tries to disagree with them, to the point of wiping out entire star systems. Part of this story is that the resistance is being wiped out / losing almost to the point that no one wants to fight anymore. (The analogy if you think of it is WWI and WWII, where WWI ended and Germany was ground down, that Hilter was allowed to rise to power partly because their enemies were tired of fighting, and even allowed them to roll over countries like Austria and Poland and it really took a long time for governements to stand up to them, almost by the time it was too late.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I will say I did appreciate where they showed that the "rich" were selling weapons to both the First Order and the Republic - showing that it isn't a good vs bad thing but that both sides do what they need to in order to get ahead, etc / no one is "clean"

Agreed. This is just very realistic — not taking a side politically like some of the other stuff.

 

[DVCcurious]

In Episode 3 the Senate votes to give Palpatine ultimate control. Senator Amadala says to Senator Organa “so this is how Liberty dies, with thunderous applause”.

I believe I read George Lucas said this was a direct reference to the Patriot Act. Whether he said it or I inferred it, I think this link is quite obvious.

I didn’t mind that because it was one thing out of 2 hours.

But Episode VIII is just constant with the politics.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

In Episode 3 the Senate votes to give Palpatine ultimate control. Senator Amadala says to Senator Organa “so this is how Liberty dies, with thunderous applause”.

I believe I read George Lucas said this was a direct reference to the Patriot Act. Whether he said it or I inferred it, I think this link is quite obvious.

I didn’t mind that because it was one thing out of 2 hours.

But Episode VIII is just constant with the politics.

It was more than I would have liked. For sure. I just don’t think it was nonstop, and didn’t ruin the film for me the same way Avatar or other films and tv shows were ruined this way (just IMO, obviously).

 

[umichigan10]

I felt that was a bit ham-handed though - and more of indictment of those wealthy arms trafficers that make money from BOTH sides in a war - not that the resistance is not all good. In fact, it was probably the closest Star Wars has really come to the "real" world in terms on any sort of statement - but really it was such a minor point it just seemed forced. (Pardon THAT pun.)

I have a hard time calling the resistance / rebellion anything but "good", after all - the Empire / First Order is truly a fascist regime which basically crushes anyone that tries to disagree with them, to the point of wiping out entire star systems. Part of this story is that the resistance is being wiped out / losing almost to the point that no one wants to fight anymore. (The analogy if you think of it is WWI and WWII, where WWI ended and Germany was ground down, that Hilter was allowed to rise to power partly because their enemies were tired of fighting, and even allowed them to roll over countries like Austria and Poland and it really took a long time for governements to stand up to them, almost by the time it was too late.

Actually I believe JJ Abrams described the first order more as “if the nazis in exile in South America had been able to organize and create another Reich from the ashes of the old one” which I think is a really cool concept for a Star Wars villain faction

 

[amberpi]

It was more than I would have liked. For sure. I just don’t think it was nonstop, and didn’t ruin the film for me the same way Avatar or other films and tv shows were ruined this way (just IMO, obviously).

If you look for it, you'll find it. I do with my politics. Not in a crappy way, but I look for my own bias all the time...and know it. It's like people who look for drunks in Epcot.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I felt that was a bit ham-handed though - and more of indictment of those wealthy arms trafficers that make money from BOTH sides in a war - not that the resistance is not all good. In fact, it was probably the closest Star Wars has really come to the "real" world in terms on any sort of statement - but really it was such a minor point it just seemed forced. (Pardon THAT pun.)

I have a hard time calling the resistance / rebellion anything but "good", after all - the Empire / First Order is truly a fascist regime which basically crushes anyone that tries to disagree with them, to the point of wiping out entire star systems. Part of this story is that the resistance is being wiped out / losing almost to the point that no one wants to fight anymore. (The analogy if you think of it is WWI and WWII, where WWI ended and Germany was ground down, that Hilter was allowed to rise to power partly because their enemies were tired of fighting, and even allowed them to roll over countries like Austria and Poland and it really took a long time for governements to stand up to them, almost by the time it was too late.

Though the rebels also do things outside of the rules and the laws. If you read the Aftermath series a lot is about that as Mon Motma is leading the Republic and trying to stay within the laws and get the votes needed to take any further action against the remanents of the Empire and Leia skirts the laws and tries to provide cover for when Han and others go off the grid, etc

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If you look for it, you'll find it. I do with my politics. Not in a crappy way, but I look for my own bias all the time...and know it. It's like people who look for drunks in Epcot.

Agreed. However, sometimes drunks in Epcot vomit in a plant right next to you while you are trying to eat a morsel at the F&W festival.

In other words, sometimes the politics are heavy handed and right in your face.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

SAw it yesterday finally. Did anyone else’s theater clap when snoke died? According to my friends I was the one who initiated the clapping in my showing. He was just getting on my nerves

 

[jkh36619]

SAw it yesterday finally. Did anyone else’s theater clap when snoke died? According to my friends I was the one who initiated the clapping in my showing. He was just getting on my nerves

They didn't build his character up enough for me to care. I was indifferent. In fact, this trilogy i lacking someone for me to hate as I really don't know what Kylo Ren is right now.

 

[HuskieJohn]

SAw it yesterday finally. Did anyone else’s theater clap when snoke died? According to my friends I was the one who initiated the clapping in my showing. He was just getting on my nerves

Yes my opening day showing had a loud cheer and applause when he got knocked off.


For me it was more of a shock of interest of...This is different, what are they doing here?

 

[Iowamomof4]

The only clapping in our theater on opening night was right at the end of the Throne Room battle and at the end of the movie. I thought Snoke's death was an awesome and bold choice! When that happened, I became much more excited for the next film.

 

[ShadeDK]

Checked out of this thread for awhile (an excused absence since I was at WDW), but settling back at the table for a few thoughts:

-The nadir of politics in SW was Episode I - nothing will ever be worse than an opening crawl that immediately talks about space taxes and, later, Neimoidians arguing about intergalactic trade routes during parliamentary procedure.

-I've mentioned it before, but the newer SW films still have a villain problem. OT Vader was iconic, menacing, imposing and frightening - exactly the strong type of foil a movie needs to make its heroes seem more heroic. Weak villains might be interesting as a character study or complex personalities, but they don't add much otherwise. Kylo is less OT Vader and more PT Anakin - which doesn't do much for me since (other than Darth Maul) I thought the villain problem started with the PT and introduced the revolving door of one-off heavies connected to the emotionally fragile, uncertain "villains" of Anakin and now Kylo. Although I think Kylo is sort of interesting, I don't find him all that menacing - and I'm honestly not all that curious how his story plays out in Ep IX.

-I'm not too bothered by the inconsistencies between TFA and TLJ - I consider it a by-product of what SW is now: a story universe by committee. Love it or hate it, decisions in the "old" SW came down to one creative mind: Lucas, whom we could heap all the praise or blame on for whatever happened. It's not entirely clear now who "controls" the SW universe, but it's not one person. And that's going to result in unevenness (which, in all fairness, happened with Lucas, as well).

 

[Redcon1]

To me, the lightsaber flip is one of the best shots in all of the SW films. It totally reflects how Luke is feeling at that moment: dejected, a failure, loss of believe in the Jedis and force. What else would you want him to do with it? Say "Golly, gee whiz, thanks for bringing this back, it sure makes my day!, btw, who the hell are you?". The flip sums up what Luke has been through since the end of the OT.

I remember seeing ROTJ in theaters in '83 and wasn't the only one who wondered how Luke changed and suddenly became this powerful, confident Jedi when last we saw him in ESB. He had only a few lessons from Yoda under his belt and like Poe, was headstrong and stubborn when he left without completing his training to try and help his friends. For those of us who accepted the fact that between those two film's timeframes, he either went back for more training with Yoda or somehow taught himself how to use the force more powerfully, it's not a great leap of faith to believe that with even more time occurring between ROTJ and TLJ, he became a recluse who wanted nothing to do with his previous life, especially after his failure with Kylo.

I think it's quite logical and consistent for his character to behave the way he did in TLJ...and for his "death" to be similar to the other Jedi Masters, Obi-Wan and Yoda.

 

[umichigan10]

Checked out of this thread for awhile (an excused absence since I was at WDW), but settling back at the table for a few thoughts:

-The nadir of politics in SW was Episode I - nothing will ever be worse than an opening crawl that immediately talks about space taxes and, later, Neimoidians arguing about intergalactic trade routes during parliamentary procedure.

-I've mentioned it before, but the newer SW films still have a villain problem. OT Vader was iconic, menacing, imposing and frightening - exactly the strong type of foil a movie needs to make its heroes seem more heroic. Weak villains might be interesting as a character study or complex personalities, but they don't add much otherwise. Kylo is less OT Vader and more PT Anakin - which doesn't do much for me since (other than Darth Maul) I thought the villain problem started with the PT and introduced the revolving door of one-off heavies connected to the emotionally fragile, uncertain "villains" of Anakin and now Kylo. Although I think Kylo is sort of interesting, I don't find him all that menacing - and I'm honestly not all that curious how his story plays out in Ep IX.

-I'm not too bothered by the inconsistencies between TFA and TLJ - I consider it a by-product of what SW is now: a story universe by committee. Love it or hate it, decisions in the "old" SW came down to one creative mind: Lucas, whom we could heap all the praise or blame on for whatever happened. It's not entirely clear now who "controls" the SW universe, but it's not one person. And that's going to result in unevenness (which, in all fairness, happened with Lucas, as well).

Hey don’t forget about the votes of no confidence!

Also on the regard of Lucas I think it’s funny how people flame Disney for making the EU stuff non cannon. While some of it was cool/interesting, it was also rife with inconsistencies which was forwarded by the fact that Lucas had no interest in doing more films set afterwards, and also would allow just about anything to be published as canon. You cant realistically add another trilogy set after the originals if you have to build around the mess that was the EU

 

[ShadeDK]

Hey don’t forget about the votes of no confidence!

No one could ever forget that moment - the most riveting in the SW universe. Who couldn't be brought to tears with Chancellor Valorum's visible expression of shock, surprise and pain after Queen Amidala's wooden demand for that vote? Surely some of Terence Stamp's finest work and the best submitted by an acclaimed veteran actor in the SW series (except maybe for Count Dracula dueling a muppet in Ep II).

Agree on the EU comment - I always assumed Lucas would've done that himself if he had ever gotten around to Eps VII - IX (we know all too well that he didn't exactly consider even his own prior work to be untouchable).

 

[jkh36619]

Hey don’t forget about the votes of no confidence!

Also on the regard of Lucas I think it’s funny how people flame Disney for making the EU stuff non cannon. While some of it was cool/interesting, it was also rife with inconsistencies which was forwarded by the fact that Lucas had no interest in doing more films set afterwards, and also would allow just about anything to be published as canon. You cant realistically add another trilogy set after the originals if you have to build around the mess that was the EU

I was a big proponent of the continuing story post Return of the Jedi but I'm not so sure anymore. I am now thinking I would like to see a complete reboot and overhaul of SW. Though I think this film could have been better, I am also sympathetic of fact that its hard to continue with the creative ideas of another person. I think we need a different story from another time, no references of what we know. Maybe not even the rebels vs empire theme. A complete new story written out over 3 to 6 films.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

SAw it yesterday finally. Did anyone else’s theater clap when snoke died? According to my friends I was the one who initiated the clapping in my showing. He was just getting on my nerves

The first time I saw it the theater did clap at that point - though I took it more of cheering on Kylo and thinking it was him turning, etc and just a cool scene more than being happy Snoke dies

 

[DVCcurious]

SAw it yesterday finally. Did anyone else’s theater clap when snoke died? According to my friends I was the one who initiated the clapping in my showing. He was just getting on my nerves

I tried to start a slow clap but no one else joined in