Standby lines- before and after

[wdhinn89]

The problem with that is that the title of the post is "Standby lines-before and after". Seems to me to be pretty rudimentary that it means you're going to have a discussion of the differences between the two. But who knows ? Since there are a few on here who are apparently capable of twisting the English language maybe it doesn't mean that at all....lol

The question asked in my first post is if people are finding an increase, decrease or the same wait times since FP+ has been implemented. In no way did it open a discussion about the differences in the 2 fastpasses. I want to know what kind of lines to expect in May not read people arguing about FP- that does not even exist any longer

 

[wisblue]

I posted "I know you keep saying that you didn't notice a difference in wait times but I'm still trying to figure that out given that you were at D the same time as we were(and if I recall correctly you were even at MK one of the same days as us) and compared to previous years in the same periods the differences in the lines that we saw was huge (both the lines and the differences) . Never ever ever ever ever had we had to wait 30+ minutes for secondary attractions in low season and there were more than just a couple that had posted wait times like this. Think what I may do next trip is take photos of the wait times so as to leave no doubt"

You responded by saying "
See, I don't get this either. I'm kind of with Cake here. I just did not see the 30+ minute waits. I'd say 30 min was the most we waited for anything. And I remember several long lines from earlier years. Nemo (Epcot) had pretty long lines in the past. They actually used the switchbacks in the entry. In recent times, just not. Everyone should report their own experiences. I really did not feel that lines were overall significantly longer."

If ever I've seen a perfunctory "encouraged others to share their experiences" this would be it.

The question that I, and some others, have about statements like this is not what the wait times are now, because those are pretty easily verified with data from places like Touring Plans. So photos of current wait times are not going to help there.

The real question for me is what you are comparing to, and what you mean by "secondary attractions" and "low season". And what were the wait times for those attractions at those times? If they weren't 30+ minutes, what were they, 5, 10, 20 minutes, or what? Do you have some specific dates from prior trips where you didn't see lines at some of these attractions so we could look and see how short those lines really were in the middle of the day?

People seem to like to cite Josh from easywdw as the authority when he says standby lines at an attraction like POC are longer, but then ignore him when he says that lines there are now 30% higher on average. 30 percent higher would mean that a wait time of 40 minutes now would have been 30 minutes before, not a walk on. And that doesn't take into account the reduced capacity from leaving the back row of the boats empty.

Low season is a pretty vague term too. The date you were talking about, Saturday, September 27, was listed by TP as a crowd level 6 day. Much more like slightly above average than low season. With Disney putting in more and more events and promotions to boost crowds during traditionally slow times, the crowd levels at those times might be significantly higher than they used to be. An overall increase of 6% in attendance at MK (and that's just one year) doesn't mean that attendance is up 6% every day over the corresponding day the year before. It is possible, and I would say likely, that the percentage increase is higher at the slower times of year as guests, including foreign tour groups, are drawn into those periods.

I know this isn't true of everyone, but I think a lot of the people who are not surprised to see wait times of 30 minutes or more at some of these attractions that you consider secondary, are guests who have often had to visit at the busiest times of year when waits like this were the norm. So, when we see wait times like that now, we think that larger crowds are at least a part of the cause, if not the primary one. And people who are used to visiting at busy times are less bothered by bigger crowds and longer standby waits because we are used to seeing them and our approach to touring the parks has been designed to avoid them.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'm glad you don't think this is zig zagging, but you are in fact showing up at a ride, realizing the standby is too long, leaving , and then returning later. It still qualifies as zig Zagging. You may find it more acceptable with FP+, but zig zagging still exists.
FP+ has created longer SB lines for secondary attractions in my experience. So if we don't have a FP for the secondary attraction and the wait time is too long IMO we have to ride something else and return later. Therefore it is the same back and forth that has always been a part of visiting a theme park.

For me, zigzagging is leaving IASW due to a long line, zipping over to LUgh factory, circling back to check line status, determining line is still too long, traipsing over to Pirates, dragging back to Small World. Criss crossing the "street" for a shorter line I s simply that. Crossing the street.

 

[wisblue]

The question asked in my first post is if people are finding an increase, decrease or the same wait times since FP+ has been implemented. In no way did it open a discussion about the differences in the 2 fastpasses. I want to know what kind of lines to expect in May not read people arguing about FP- that does not even exist any longer

If you want the best guesses about what types of lines to expect in May, I would recommend going to Touring Plans and/or easywdw and looking at their predictions for crowd levels on the days you will be visiting. Both sites have charts showing estimated wait times based on the crowd level. On easywdw you should look for the item called "cheat sheets".

This won't tell you what wait times used to be but should give you an idea of what they are like now and you can compare to your past experience and draw your own conclusions. I suspect you are more interested in WHAT the lines will be than WHY they are that way.

 

[Luckybee]

The question asked in my first post is if people are finding an increase, decrease or the same wait times since FP+ has been implemented. In no way did it open a discussion about the differences in the 2 fastpasses. I want to know what kind of lines to expect in May not read people arguing about FP- that does not even exist any longer

Well if you don't think that fp has any effect on standby times ...well lets just say im surprised....lol. And to ask a question about whether standby lines have become longer since fp+ and one that has already been debated repeatedly over and over and over again and not expect any discussions about fp+ is imho naïve.

 

[Luckybee]

The question that I, and some others, have about statements like this is not what the wait times are now, because those are pretty easily verified with data from places like Touring Plans. So photos of current wait times are not going to help there.

The real question for me is what you are comparing to, and what you mean by "secondary attractions" and "low season". And what were the wait times for those attractions at those times? If they weren't 30+ minutes, what were they, 5, 10, 20 minutes, or what? Do you have some specific dates from prior trips where you didn't see lines at some of these attractions so we could look and see how short those lines really were in the middle of the day?

People seem to like to cite Josh from easywdw as the authority when he says standby lines at an attraction like POC are longer, but then ignore him when he says that lines there are now 30% higher on average. 30 percent higher would mean that a wait time of 40 minutes now would have been 30 minutes before, not a walk on. And that doesn't take into account the reduced capacity from leaving the back row of the boats empty.

Low season is a pretty vague term too. The date you were talking about, Saturday, September 27, was listed by TP as a crowd level 6 day. Much more like slightly above average than low season. With Disney putting in more and more events and promotions to boost crowds during traditionally slow times, the crowd levels at those times might be significantly higher than they used to be. An overall increase of 6% in attendance at MK (and that's just one year) doesn't mean that attendance is up 6% every day over the corresponding day the year before. It is possible, and I would say likely, that the percentage increase is higher at the slower times of year as guests, including foreign tour groups, are drawn into those periods.

I know this isn't true of everyone, but I think a lot of the people who are not surprised to see wait times of 30 minutes or more at some of these attractions that you consider secondary, are guests who have often had to visit at the busiest times of year when waits like this were the norm. So, when we see wait times like that now, we think that larger crowds are at least a part of the cause, if not the primary one. And people who are used to visiting at busy times are less bothered by bigger crowds and longer standby waits because we are used to seeing them and our approach to touring the parks has been designed to avoid them.

We have been at Disney repeatedly in May, Sept, Oct, Nov, and once(never to be repeated) in August. Other than August these time frames were always low season . We have been at the end of Sept before and it was always the same prior to fp+ . In any of those months/years prior to the implementation of fp+ we ALWAYS found the standby lines to be shorter on secondary attractions. By secondary I am including IASW, POTC,WP, PP, HM,JC and Buzz. These are the ones that jump out at me right now since these were the ones that we mainly noticed on this trip at MK. We never waited more than 10-15 minutes for any, and most often 5 or less compared to our last trip post fp+when the min wait was 20 and most over 30 minutes.
And omg no Im not about to start searching back in my travel records to satisfy you and for you to accept and see "how short those lines really were in the middle of the day" since I am well aware of how short they really were since I was there. Quite frankly if you or anyone else in your little group doesn't believe me, if I may I'll quote part of a line from Gone with the Wind....frankly Scarlett I don't give a .....(fill in your own word)

 

[Cormoran]

For me, zigzagging is leaving IASW due to a long line, zipping over to LUgh factory, circling back to check line status, determining line is still too long, traipsing over to Pirates, dragging back to Small World. Criss crossing the "street" for a shorter line I s simply that. Crossing the street.

OK I got it. According to you zig zagging involves : Zipping, circling, traipsing, and dragging. So I can infer from the adjectives you used, this is what you did with Legacy but not with FP+? But you know what I was originally saying? Both legacy and FP+ involve zig zagging!

 

[JimmyV]

I think it is funny how "zig-zagging" is used here as a pejorative. To the extent that we did more walking and park crossing with FP-, it was because we were riding more headliners and had to walk to get to them. (Darn tele-transportation! Not invented yet!). On our last trip we rode Space Mountain, BTMRR, Splash, TT, Soarin', TSMM, RnR and ToT fewer times than we had in previous trips under FP- . So yes. We walked more with FP-. And we rode TSMM, RnR and ToT three times each per day. We coukd not do that with FP+, so sure--we walked to Pixar Place and walked down Sunset Boulevard fewer times. Yay us!!

 

[Cormoran]

I think it is funny how "zig-zagging" is used here as a pejorative. To the extent that we did more walking and park crossing with FP-, it was because we were riding more headliners and had to walk to get to them. (Darn tele-transportation! Not invented yet!). On our last trip we rode Space Mountain, BTMRR, Splash, TT, Soarin', TSMM, RnR and ToT fewer times than we had in previous trips under FP- . So yes. We walked more with FP-. And we rode TSMM, RnR and ToT three times each per day. We coukd not do that with FP+, so sure--we walked to Pixar Place and walked down Sunset Boulevard fewer times. Yay us!!

So Jimmy you did in fact do more traipsing, circling, zipping, and dragging with Legacy? But you also rode more rides? So in your opinion, the increased zig zag associated with Legacy provided an increased attraction yield?

 

[MrInfinity]

I posted "I know you keep saying that you didn't notice a difference in wait times but I'm still trying to figure that out given that you were at D the same time as we were and compared to previous years in the same periods the differences in the lines that we saw was huge. Never ever ever ever ever had we had to wait 30+ minutes for secondary attractions in low season.

You responded by saying "See, I don't get this either. I'm kind of with Cake here. I just did not see the 30+ minute waits. I'd say 30 min was the most we waited for anything. And I remember several long lines from earlier years. Nemo (Epcot) had pretty long lines in the past. They actually used the switchbacks in the entry. In recent times, just not. Everyone should report their own experiences. I really did not feel that lines were overall significantly longer."

So what exactly do you disagree with? I stand by all that. You had to wait 30+ minutes for secondary attractions. We didn't. I really did not experience the 30+ min waits that you did. I did not wait in them, and the wait times I posted today suggest one who went today, could have toured Epcot and not waited in them either. So you did. I don't know why, but that's that. I'm not discounting your experience, so you shouldn't discount mine. Based on what times I saw today, my experience seems to be more in line w current happenings, but that is just picking a random day and looking at wait times on the app. 0-20 min was the posted standby for all secondary rides at Epcot today at 10am and 5:30pm.

Again not in any way saying you did not wait 30+ min for everything. I fully accept that you may have done this -- I'm not any more right than you. If you were there the same week in May, I'm happy to compare notes. Maybe privately?

 

[BigAlsGal]

I personally like the longer lineup for PotC. That gives me more time to sing "Yo Ho, Yo Ho, a pirates life for me!", into my husbands ear as he repeatedly crop dusts the whole line.

Good times. Priceless memories!!!! Bahahahaha

 

[Nancyg56]

OK I got it. According to you zig zagging involves : Zipping, circling, traipsing, and dragging. So I can infer from the adjectives you used, this is what you did with Legacy but not with FP+? But you know what I was originally saying? Both legacy and FP+ involve zig zagging!

Nope. Whenever I got legacy FP, I stayed in the area. I do know folks who ran from one end of the park to another, and back to make those FP attractions. To me, that is zigzagging. Not me, not my family. Not ever. We are the wanderers. I do book FP+, and we stay in the area, and pick and choose attractions based on their SB lines. WE wander from one side of the street to the other, picking the best line for us. You can infer all you want what that means, but for us, it is not out of our touring plan to cross a narrow street to save a lot of time. WE know which attractions we like and don't care one way or another what order we enjoy them. You want this to be zigzagging, okay. To me and to my family, it is not even one bit out of the ay.

 

[Cormoran]

Nope. Whenever I got legacy FP, I stayed in the area. I do know folks who ran from one end of the park to another, and back to make those FP attractions. To me, that is zigzagging. Not me, not my family. Not ever. We are the wanderers. I do book FP+, and we stay in the area, and pick and choose attractions based on their SB lines. WE wander from one side of the street to the other, picking the best line for us. You can infer all you want what that means, but for us, it is not out of our touring plan to cross a narrow street to save a lot of time. WE know which attractions we like and don't care one way or another what order we enjoy them. You want this to be zigzagging, okay. To me and to my family, it is not even one bit out of the ay.

Great, thanks for the clarification.

 

[JimmyV]

My plea to the community...
If I ever get to the point in life where I feel the need to tour an amusement park with perfect kinetic efficiency, and when traipsing, circling and wandering are "negatives" and should be avoided; and when the pursuit of minimal movement impacts my decision making in terms of whether or not to cross the park.......please shoot me!

 

[North of Mouse]

Wow, this has turned into an 'I know best, you know best' thread!! The rides are not the 'end all, be all' thing to us, we actually enjoy the ambiance probably more than the rides - could care less how long it takes to get from A to B.

Last night we rode Little Mermaid at 10min. Don't know why, unless everyone was in the standby lines of Peter Pan and Mine Train - lots of people in Fantasyland.

Went over to DHS after dinner and parts of it was ghost town. Used our FP for TSM at 7:30, then were tired and headed out - didn't even use our other two FP's - they make you make 3 whether you want to or not - forgot to cancel the others as we were at dinner.

 

[Cormoran]

Wow, this has turned into an 'I know best, you know best' thread!! The rides are not the 'end all, be all' thing to us, we actually enjoy the ambiance probably more than the rides - could care less how long it takes to get from A to B.

Last night we rode Little Mermaid at 10min. Don't know why, unless everyone was in the standby lines of Peter Pan and Mine Train - lots of people in Fantasyland.

Went over to DHS after dinner and parts of it was ghost town. Used our FP for TSM at 7:30, then were tired and headed out - didn't even use our other two FP's - they make you make 3 whether you want to or not - forgot to cancel the others as we were at dinner.

I've been looking at the Touring Plan Website: Yesterday touring plans predicted MK 7 actual 4; Epcot 7 actual 6; DHS 8 actual 5; AK 8 actual 6. so I think the crowds are a lower than predicted. Lucky you!

 

[mom2rtk]

As you are calculating how long you wait in line, don't forget that for 4th and subsequent fastpasses, you must now zig (or zag?) to a kiosk where you must now...... wait in line. Outside of the first 30 minutes of the day at DHS, I never waited in line to pull a FP and machines were located at every attraction offering FP.

 

[Hokie2000]

I think it is funny how "zig-zagging" is used here as a pejorative. To the extent that we did more walking and park crossing with FP-, it was because we were riding more headliners and had to walk to get to them. (Darn tele-transportation! Not invented yet!). On our last trip we rode Space Mountain, BTMRR, Splash, TT, Soarin', TSMM, RnR and ToT fewer times than we had in previous trips under FP- . So yes. We walked more with FP-. And we rode TSMM, RnR and ToT three times each per day. We coukd not do that with FP+, so sure--we walked to Pixar Place and walked down Sunset Boulevard fewer times. Yay us!!

That's a very valid point. I imagine it was a lot of fun to zig and zag through the park riding multiple times on your favorite rides!!

Again, I think it all comes down to touring styles and maybe family dynamics. Having little tykes made it more of a pain than a fun game for me, so I didn't use FP- to the extent that a lot of people did, and I don't miss it. I would probably be less happy about FP+ if my kids were older for our FP- trips.

 

[Nancyg56]

My plea to the community...
If I ever get to the point in life where I feel the need to tour an amusement park with perfect kinetic efficiency, and when traipsing, circling and wandering are "negatives" and should be avoided; and when the pursuit of minimal movement impacts my decision making in terms of whether or not to cross the park.......please shoot me!

I was not trying to imply that we are efficient, we are far from it! LOL! We just do not run from one end of the park to the other to save time in a FP line. Never did. Never will. I actually was responding to a woman who felt that crossing the street was a zigzag approach to touring.

I refuse to ever get all worked up on vacation, following detailed plans to maximize every park minute.

 

[Mikie]

I no longer know if it's still the point of this thread, but my experience was that we rode the same types of rides with similar waits - I didn't keep notes, but I know I just am not interested in getting in a Small World line longer than 15-20 min, or a Haunted Mansion longer than 30, we'll hope for any Mountsin shorter than 40 min but will wait 40+ if we never see better, Or don't have a FP. Nothing in my October waits stands out, so they must not have crossed my "pain" threshold. I have never used step-by-step touring plans so I can't confirm what times I rode things from one trip to the next, but we never closed down the parks so I wasn't using a last-30-min-of-the-day plan; I only do pseudo rope drop (arriving within 30min of park open, not waiting at tapstiles prior to open) so they weren't rare morning short waits either.

Exception to my very unscientific "pain threshold" analysis: I saw waits at spaceship earth 45 minutes plus. I didn't ride it then and I did see it other times of day (including some morning, Midday and late) at my expected 15 min or less. It just jumped around a LOT and got crazy high sometimes and that was new to me. All other posted waits I noticed fell in line with expectations from prior years: Toy Story usually over an hour, Rockin roller coaster generally long but varied, tower of terror had to walk by or use the app to make sure the wait was reasonable - sometimes long but often 20 min or less. Similar anecdotal observations in all parks on all my days.

So. . . The "feel" for me is about the same, but maybe my order was switched around from the past.