Standby lines- before and after

[cakebaker]

I'm glad you don't think this is zig zagging, but you are in fact showing up at a ride, realizing the standby is too long, leaving , and then returning later. It still qualifies as zig Zagging. You may find it more acceptable with FP+, but zig zagging exists.

Not for us. If you tour effectively, you don't zigzag.

I think I was pretty clear in my post. We didn't GO to IASW to ride it. We walked past it- had the line been short we would have ridden it.

It wasn't short- the next ride we passed that had a short line was the Carousel. We didn't go to it- we passed by it on the way to wherever we were going.

Later, when we were in that area to do something, the line was short at iasw. We rode it.

We don't head to any specific ride, walk past short lines and not ride.
We are generally guided by an upcoming fp or a show we want to see, a meal we're going to eat etc.

We don't zigzag hunting for rides to ride.

I don't presume to think my experience is the only one to be had. I'm quite sure making the choices you describe, your experience was different.

 

[Cormoran]

Can't you get this straight? Zig-zagging is what people did under FP-. Now, when you pass by an attraction and find a long line and circle back to return at a later time, that is called strategic touring. If you can't see the difference, then you aren't allowed to play in this sandbox.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[cakebaker]

Can't you get this straight? Zig-zagging is what people did under FP-. Now, when you pass by an attraction and find a long line and circle back to return at a later time, that is called strategic touring. If you can't see the difference, then you aren't allowed to play in this sandbox.

If that's what I did, it would be zigzagging but I didn't do it so it isn't.

 

[Cormoran]

Not for us. If you tour effectively, you don't zigzag.

I think I was pretty clear in my post. We didn't GO to IASW to ride it. We walked past it- had the line been short we would have ridden it.

It wasn't short- the next ride we passed that had a short line was the Carousel. We didn't go to it- we passed by it on the way to wherever we were going.

Later, when we were in that area to do something, the line was short at iasw. We rode it.

We don't head to any specific ride, walk past short lines and not ride.
We are generally guided by an upcoming fp or a show we want to see, a meal we're going to eat etc.

We don't zigzag hunting for rides to ride.

I don't presume to think my experience is the only one to be had. I'm quite sure making the choices you describe, your experience was different.

That's not what you said earlier:

For instance, we were in the area and decided to ride IASW. For some reason- have no idea why- the line was across the walkway. It hadn't been that way long because the CM's are usually pretty good at not letting people block the walkway. At any rate, the line went across almost all the way to PPF. I could've taken a picture and posted it as "proof" that lines are horribly long. But, we walked past it, went and rode the carousel that was a walk on. Later, we were in the area, IASW was a 5 minute wait at most. We rode it then. Again, I could've taken a picture as "proof" of how lines are not long. All pictures do is show a moment in time, not trends.

This of course isn't true for the most part for the headliners other than during EHM, rope drop etc...but we use those methods combined with FP+ to take care of that.

To me it sounds like you went to IASW with the intent to ride, but the line was too long so you returned later. Isn't that zig zagging?

 

[Disneylover99]

Who has claimed this?

Mr. Infinity says it's due to higher attendance.

 

[JimmyV]

If that's what I did, it would be zigzagging but I didn't do it so it isn't.

No. You didn't circle back and ride the ride at a later time. You did something completely different. You.....

But, we walked past it, went and rode the carousel that was a walk on. Later, we were in the area, IASW was a 5 minute wait at most. We rode it then.

Walks like s duck. Quacks like a duck....

 

[wisblue]

Dont believe me?...maybe you'll believe Touringplans. I just looked at tp for Sept 27th one of the days we were actually there. Not reading it on an app.
Average wait times observed:
Buzz-32 minutes
Peter Pan-48 minutes
Pirates-34 minutes
Haunted Mansion-37 minutes
Winnie the Pooh-33 minutes

Oh and don't get me wrong. We didn't wait 30 minutes either. We did our 3 and out because the secondary ride lines were too ridiculously long because of fp+

This isn't the first time this specific debate has flared up, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Between the studies done by both Touring Plans and easywdw, Josh's general comments about wait times and overall crowd levels, looking at actual posted wait times on different dates (which you can do with Touring Plans), and sorting through the various personal observations on this board, there doesn't seem to be any question that standby wait times on at least SOME attractions are generally longer at least SOME of the time. The disagreements are more over HOW MUCH longer these wait times are at comparable times of the day with comparable crowd levels, and how much those longer wait times will affect a guest's experience in a park. There is also disagreement over how much of any increases are a result of FP+ or overall higher attendance levels. Most likely it is some combination of the two.

I do want to mention one specific thing that you have to keep in mind if you are going to use Touring Plans' average observed wait times. TP develops its crowd levels by evaluating wait times at certain attractions between 10 AM and 5 PM. If I understand their explanations and definitions correctly, their observed average wait time for a ride for a day is also the average time between 10 AM and 5 PM. In other words, that average completely ignores the wait times from park opening until 10 AM and from 5 PM until park closing. Because peak wait times typically occur in the middle of the day, the wait times before and after the 10-5 measuring period are likely to be lower than those averages.

This highlights the importance of efficient touring to avoiding those longer lines. Someone who enters the park at 10 AM and leaves at 5 PM (or earlier) is running themselves head on into the longest standby wait times of the day. Someone who makes efficient use of early and/or late hours and their FPs can avoid most or all of these longer lines pretty easily.

 

[cakebaker]

That's not what you said earlier:

To me it sounds like you went to IASW with the intent to ride, but the line was too long so you returned later. Isn't that zig zagging?

We were in the area- does that sound like - "we went to ride iasw, but the lines were long"?

We happened to be there- I don't recall why- maybe it was our fp for ppf- but we didn't go to ride iasw. I don't know how to make that any more clear.

 

[wdwcoltsfan]

We have recently been in late Oct., early Dec. and late Feb. The differences I have noticed are broken down by park.

Epcot- TT and Soarin seem to have about the same wait, but we actually found TT to be a little less. JIYI, MS, LWTL and SE all seemed to be about the same. It really depended on what time we were there. Circle of Life, Universe of Energy and Living Seas I can't comment on because I didn't pay any attention.

AK- I haven't found a big jump in any of the rides. KS always seems to have the highest wait time and it did these past trips, but I can't say it was a longer wait. EE, Dinosaur and PW all fell in the 15-25 minute wait and ITTBAB was consistently 5 min. I think the biggest shift would be Dinosaur, but it went from 5-10 min to 15-20, so not a big change. I don't like Kali so I can't comment.

DHS- I think this is the one park with consistently high wait times for the main 3. The one ride that I think has suffered higher wait times is TGMR. I wouldn't use a tier 1 FP on this and I'm guessing others aren't either, so there are more in standby. Muppets was still minimal and surprisingly so was ST. I don't know how difficult it was to get into VOTLM,BATB or Indiana Jones. One observation is TSMM and RNR didn't cross over into that 90 min. mark and really stayed at 60 or less. Many times RNR was more in the 30-45. It was TOT that we would see with higher than normal wait times.

MK- The only rides I see with a higher than normal wait times are POTC and HM. I'm wondering if this is because first time guests are using FP because these are two rides that people think of when they think of Disney or many people are able to pick them up as a 4th or 5th. The mountains all had less of a wait than we are used to. JC, Pooh, Philharmagic, Stitch, Monsters and Buzz were all about the same. PP still has a high wait. The Speedway seemed to be less than it has in the past.

So after all this breakdown, what we noticed is some headliners now have a shorter wait and HM, POTC, Dinosaur and TGMR seem to have jumped. The rest we haven't noticed an appreciable difference. Some were and still are long waits.

 

[wisblue]

I'm glad you don't think this is zig zagging, but you are in fact showing up at a ride, realizing the standby is too long, leaving , and then returning later. It still qualifies as zig Zagging. You may find it more acceptable with FP+, but zig zagging still exists.
FP+ has created longer SB lines for secondary attractions in my experience. So if we don't have a FP for the secondary attraction and the wait time is too long IMO we have to ride something else and return later. Therefore it is the same back and forth that has always been a part of visiting a theme park.

First of all, I have never been one to criticize paper FP because of too much zig zagging. Our bigger issue was simply inconvenient return times.

But, you have to realize that a lot of the biggest opponents of paper FP have said that they never zig zagged around the park because they toured in one area. So, they picked up a FP, did other things in the same area, and then returned to use their FPs. By your definition that is zig zagging too because they showed up at a ride, left, and returned later.

 

[cakebaker]

No. You didn't circle back and ride the ride at a later time. You did something completely different. You.....



Walks like s duck. Quacks like a duck....

Again , I've made it as clear as is possible. We were close to iasw for some reason- I don't have my entire trip committed to memory. Had iasw had a short line, we would've ridden.

It didn't - we moved on. On the way, carousel had a short line. We rode it. Later, when we were close again for whatever reason, the line was short. We rode it. We never purposefully headed to ride iasw.

We don't head to ride anything on standby. We check lines for rides we are near. I don't get the difficulty in understanding this.

 

[Planogirl]

First of all, I have never been one to criticize paper FP because of too much zig zagging. Our bigger issue was simply inconvenient return times.

But, you have to realize that a lot of the biggest opponents of paper FP have said that they never zig zagged around the park because they toured in one area. So, they picked up a FP, did other things in the same area, and then returned to use their FPs. By your definition that is zig zagging too because they showed up at a ride, left, and returned later.

Maybe the size of the zig zag has increased?

We used to grab a fastpass and then ride close by favorites until we could use it. We had a pretty distinct touring plan in MK that helped us not zig zag for a long distance.

I hope that we will be able to do this when we go again. I'm a little concerned about the reports of longer wait times for those rides we normally rode in between fastpasses. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Do you feel that the wait on standby lines has increased, decreased or stayed the same since FastPass+ has been implemented?

We didn't find there to be a big difference in wait times for fp+ attractions that had legacy fp. That goes for headliners and non headliners alike. We did find a noticeable increase in wait times for attractions that now have fp+ that did *not* have legacy (HM, POTC, iasw, especially). It wasn't enough of an increase to say "oh, I *have* to have a fp+ for it now" - at least not.in November, but it was a noticeable increase.

 

[Planogirl]

We didn't find there to be a big difference in wait times for fp+ attractions that had legacy fp. That goes for headliners and non headliners alike. We did find a noticeable increase in wait times for attractions that now have fp+ that did *not* have legacy (HM, POTC, iasw, especially). It wasn't enough of an increase to say "oh, I *have* to have a fp+ for it now" - at least not.in November, but it was a noticeable increase.

It's a Small World too? We are probably some of the few people who actually like this ride but I don't know if anyone will want to wait for very long.

 

[Cormoran]

First of all, I have never been one to criticize paper FP because of too much zig zagging. Our bigger issue was simply inconvenient return times.

But, you have to realize that a lot of the biggest opponents of paper FP have said that they never zig zagged around the park because they toured in one area. So, they picked up a FP, did other things in the same area, and then returned to use their FPs. By your definition that is zig zagging too because they showed up at a ride, left, and returned later.

Wis, if I had a dollar for every time I've read a post saying that Legacy was lousy because of the zig zag and you no longer have to do it with FP+, I would be a rich woman. I am not claiming there is no zig zagging with either legacy of FP+. But I don't agree assertion that FP+ eliminated zig zagging because it didn't. You may want to change the terminology, but the action of skipping a ride because the SB is too long and returning later, is still Zig Zagging.

 

[BugsDaddy]

It seems to me that the most efficient users of paper fast pass had some sort of touring plan and the most efficient users of FP+ also have some sort of touring plan.

Bottom, line, to avoid crowds, it is best to have a touring plan in place.

In terms of wait times increasing, I am sure they have. I bet wait times have increased at almost any park that has experienced an increase in attendance. Laying it on the doorstep of FP+ is probably premature at best.

 

[Cormoran]

Again , I've made it as clear as is possible. We were close to iasw for some reason- I don't have my entire trip committed to memory. Had iasw had a short line, we would've ridden.

It didn't - we moved on. On the way, carousel had a short line. We rode it. Later, when we were close again for whatever reason, the line was short. We rode it. We never purposefully headed to ride iasw.

We don't head to ride anything on standby. We check lines for rides we are near. I don't get the difficulty in understanding this.

OK, whatever you say.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's not what you said earlier:

To me it sounds like you went to IASW with the intent to ride, but the line was too long so you returned later. Isn't that zig zagging?

Not when the attractions are literally 30 seconds apart.

 

[cakebaker]

OK, whatever you say.

Thank you.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It's a Small World too? We are probably some of the few people who actually like this ride but I don't know if anyone will want to wait for very long.

IIRC, it was posted at 25 mins or so when we rode it. Not crazy long, and we did get in the line (the "actual" times were still listed on websites then, and actual said it would be appx 12 mins or so IIRC). I think the wait ended up being about 20 mins? I'd have to see if I wrote that down in my post trip observations.

So, it isn't like it was a huge wait or anything, but it was longer than *we* had seen it on our 2013 trips.