Staff told me why we crash

[TotallyBananas]

No I didn't think I was going to have to PROVE it. I have been a member of this board for a while and I think that many can vouch for my integrity. I am pretty insulted, didn't you just call me a liar?

I'm sorry if that's what you think I was saying. No, I did not just call you a liar or anything. I just find it hard to believe that staff would say that, theyre usually so careful about what they say.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Peace?

TotallyBananas

 

[Saxsoon]

To tell you all the truth, I hardly ever crash. My internet connection though blanks out on me. This accounts for 95 percent of my crashes.

 

[disvaclub92]

that would not work because when you're trading your charcter is still in the game but not moving

No - if you are in a trade you are still in action (text) - so it would work.

 

[iMcFly]

To tell you all the truth, I hardly ever crash. My internet connection though blanks out on me. This accounts for 95 percent of my crashes.

yea, I rarely crash hehe!

 

[cat_herder]

I have suspected this for a while but this is the first time I have heard anyone from VMK say it.

When asked why we crash so much VMK Red said:

it was so inactive players would not take up space in the game. We crash on a regualr basis so people do not log in, do something else and leave themselves in the game.

I coutered with the question:

Then it is almost impossible to play staff games and why didn't VMK crash players that didn't move why crash everyone no matter how active they are.

She didn't answer.

I am actually shocked that she admitted this.

I have been moving and crashed many many times. For the last few weeks every time I played a game I crashed - not in the quene, not in line in the room, but as I was walking up to play - 13 times in a row.

I've been moving around in the game and crashed oh so many times.

 

[Renpener]

okay, I'm going to reply to every post in this thread.

Begining: Anyone here play toontown? They knock you off the game if you dont move for a little while.

Middle: Yes, that would be right to put things into coding and blah blah blah... but there are rumors that the VMK creators want to keep players only playing a limited amount of time, so there is no addiction. (They missed their goal by far)

End: VMK staff are the true liars mostlikely. Why do you think they dont like to give out too much info? They dont want us to know. Sometimes they say things, and they dont mean it. Then it results in questions that they couldn't answer. (This is my point of view, and its also the point of view of a few others)

P.S. I just edited this. and boy do I have so many typos!

 

[DanMedix]

I get dc'ed while moving, too. Sometimes just walking around, sometimes playing HM.....who knows......all I know is that some of my very best HM games have ended with me getting disconnected!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!

 

[qruthie]

Well how about a new and refreshing idea? I suggest VMK try to run without the automatic disconnect. Maybe it just isn't needed?

Monitoring of the servers and such should be done at various times of the day and under various loads of users to determine if an automatic disconnect is really needed. If everything works okay say 95% of the time, then don't have an automatic disconnect. Another possibility would be to only activate the automatic disconnect for the 5% of the time that it is needed.

If it turns out they really do need an automatic disconnect, then they should time that to match the data from monitoring the servers and such. If that's too difficult (or time consuming) then start with say, a three hour window and monitor performance as listed above. If it works, then that should be the number. If it doesn't work, reduce the number to two hours and see how that works. If an automatic disconnect needs to be used, I suspect it doesn't need to be as often as 45 minutes.

On a slightly different topic, perhaps one of the reasons for having the automatic disconnect is for account security. I can picture a person signing on using a school computer (or other public computer like at a library) and forgetting to sign off when they leave. I believe that sort of issue should be handled at the local level, not by VMK.

Can you tell I used to do a lot of load testing and performance monitoring during my computer career?

qruthie (the 'q' is silent)

 

[darkpraxis]

First off, I don't think the staff would lie deliberately. That would just cause more complaints and problems to fix. That's just being paranoid to think that. As for leaving us in the dark!! LOL, they probably can't tell us more than they know or what is privileged info. What if they told you something and then due to technical or logistical reasons, it didn't happen? Are they liars? No. Remember there used to be a date when Gold Doors would be out. Now that date is removed from the verbage and that time has long past. Many things are out of their hands, like so many people crashing all the time!

45 min disconnect? Sometimes I have no crashes for hours: I trade, log ride, just sit and talk to friends. Other times, especially hyperactive rooms, I crash more often. I don't know if there's an automatic time limit on vmk. It may have more to do with what you're doing than how long you are doing it. Being inactive probably doesn't have too much affect on it. That's my experience. I'm using a newer computer, so maybe that has something to do with it too. I don't know, crashing doesn't bug me too much. Just start a new game, or find the person and start the trade again.

If it bugs you that much, you could stop playing. That is if you weren't already addicted and you know you're going to play for the rest of your life Muah Ha Ha!

 

[Roxane]

I'm surprised someone admitted it. I always hear staff to tell people to walk around to not dc and I know it's on a timer. I was in a staff room once and said it didn't matter if we moved, that we would get timed out anyways in for tea minutes. LOL, I got booted.
The 40 minute time out doesn't really bother me that much except at events or host games. I just relog every half hour or so to avoid the dc.

 

[aprncess]

Yesterday was the worst ever for me with crashing, It did not matter what I did, I crashed. I was walking around, playing hm, in mine or others rooms and crash crash crash. Glad we dont need insurance to play this game, my rates would be sky high! It was so bad, like every few minutes, I finally gave up for the day. Did anyone else have this problem?

 

[puckstopper55]

Well how about a new and refreshing idea? I suggest VMK try to run without the automatic disconnect. Maybe it just isn't needed?

Monitoring of the servers and such should be done at various times of the day and under various loads of users to determine if an automatic disconnect is really needed. If everything works okay say 95% of the time, then don't have an automatic disconnect. Another possibility would be to only activate the automatic disconnect for the 5% of the time that it is needed.

If it turns out they really do need an automatic disconnect, then they should time that to match the data from monitoring the servers and such. If that's too difficult (or time consuming) then start with say, a three hour window and monitor performance as listed above. If it works, then that should be the number. If it doesn't work, reduce the number to two hours and see how that works. If an automatic disconnect needs to be used, I suspect it doesn't need to be as often as 45 minutes.

On a slightly different topic, perhaps one of the reasons for having the automatic disconnect is for account security. I can picture a person signing on using a school computer (or other public computer like at a library) and forgetting to sign off when they leave. I believe that sort of issue should be handled at the local level, not by VMK.

Can you tell I used to do a lot of load testing and performance monitoring during my computer career?

qruthie (the 'q' is silent)

Well said, but you also have overlooked some things. I believe, and this is just my observation, that VMK has infact done partially what you suggested. This explains the different DC times we experiance. Some days its 90 minutes, while others it is 45 minutes. A few times I have timed my crashes and its almost down to the second of what I was 'expecting for that load time'. Lets think about this, usually in the night time, especially during staff events ( both weekends and week nights ), when people dump mules in line ( i am guilty ), that they experiance high load times. I believe they have some sort of basic equation to determine the DC time used by their "DC script". even something as simple as .... math alert....((1/(X/10))*10000) = Y, where X is the number or active users online, and Y is your allowed time before disconnect. Now i know thats not the exact formula but its just to show you that it can, and in fact does, vary depending on load time. It could also vary by time of day but i dont think so. They already have the count of users online, so plugging it into a formula is super easy.

 

[cat_herder]

No - if you are in a trade you are still in action (text) - so it would work.

I've been in trade with STAFF and got disconnected. I've been chatting with people and got disconnected. So that explanation doesn't work.

 

[cat_herder]

Why do you think they dont like to give out too much info? They dont want us to know. Sometimes they say things, and they dont mean it.

<shock> They say things they don't mean?!!

You mean like, rocket couch are coming back at the first of the year?
Like they are going to discontinue the 500 credits codes?



Isn't there another word for that kind of thing?
Oh you know, that word that isn't really a great family value thing.

 

[disvaclub92]

I've been in trade with STAFF and got disconnected. I've been chatting with people and got disconnected. So that explanation doesn't work.

Cat, I think you missed my point. I have also, been in a middle of the Trade with STAFF only to get the disconnect screen. To clarify, my point was that if you fail to perform any action (not move, trade, shop, decorate, or chat) - similar to Mansion, that this is when you should be booted from the game. Of course, that inactivity time should be measured, since some of us tend to be caught in a Talking Speed Trap a little to often.

 

[qruthie]

Well said, but you also have overlooked some things. I believe, and this is just my observation, that VMK has infact done partially what you suggested. This explains the different DC times we experiance. Some days its 90 minutes, while others it is 45 minutes. A few times I have timed my crashes and its almost down to the second of what I was 'expecting for that load time'. Lets think about this, usually in the night time, especially during staff events ( both weekends and week nights ), when people dump mules in line ( i am guilty ), that they experiance high load times. I believe they have some sort of basic equation to determine the DC time used by their "DC script". even something as simple as .... math alert....((1/(X/10))*10000) = Y, where X is the number or active users online, and Y is your allowed time before disconnect. Now i know thats not the exact formula but its just to show you that it can, and in fact does, vary depending on load time. It could also vary by time of day but i dont think so. They already have the count of users online, so plugging it into a formula is super easy.

Hi puckstopper, none of this is directed to you personally. I believe you and I agree for the most part. Where we differ is in our opinions of whether or not an automatic disconnect is needed in VMK.

I understand that and recognize there is some variation in disconnect times. I'm just not convinced they have a formula to plug values into. I'm also not convinced there is a need for an automatic disconnect at all!

I'll stick my neck out here and say what I think happens when people get disconnected -- THEY LOG RIGHT BACK IN. So what's the point of the automatic disconnect? Just to annoy us? I'm serious, when I get disconnected I log that character back in and continue what I was doing. I know for a fact that many others do the same thing. If the automatic disconnect results in the same people signing back on then it just isn't needed.

Many years ago I worked in places where you had to share computers with other people. The systems were set up to automatically log you out after a certain amount of time, say 1 hour. In addition they prevented you from logging back on for a period of time, say 2 hours. That was necessary because other people needed to use the computers and the rules forced us to let them have a turn. We all knew the rules and why they were needed. We didn't necessarily like them but at least we knew what was going on.

If VMK were having an issue where new users couldn't log on because too many users were already in VMK, then I could understand having an automatic disconnect plus a mandatory waiting period before you could sign on again. That would make some amount of sense. But it makes no sense if the only thing that happens is a bunch of people get booted from VMK only to turn around and log in again. If that's what is happening, then I maintain there is no need at all for an automatic disconnect. I've not seen any evidence yet that shows there is a problem with VMK having the maximum number of players signed on thus preventing other users from entering the game. Based on that, I strongly encourage VMK to stop using the automatic disconnect.

qruthie (the 'q' is silent)

 

[DementedRiku]

I'll stick my neck out here and say what I think happens when people get disconnected -- THEY LOG RIGHT BACK IN. So what's the point of the automatic disconnect? Just to annoy us? I'm serious, when I get disconnected I log that character back in and continue what I was doing. I know for a fact that many others do the same thing. If the automatic disconnect results in the same people signing back on then it just isn't needed.
qruthie (the 'q' is silent)

Wasn't the point of automatic disconnect to disconnect ppl that were idle? And you can't say that everybody logs back in IMMEDIATELY. Some ppl really do log on to vmk, go watch tv and their avatar occupies uneeded space for 45 minutes. I sometimes get in line for something, take a nap and realize I slept too long. And of course I'm dc.

I agree that most ppl aren't idle but waiting in a line, or sitting in a room talking, but if there was no reason to have it....why hasn't VMK gotten rid of it? There must be a logic behind it that only the creators and testors understand. I could easily see some weird server overload that would send the entire game into oblivion because everybody was logged on and never crashed or logged out.

 

[puckstopper55]

Think about it this way. I would guess, that maybe 8-10% of characters are idle at any 1 time. On a weekend, with 4500 users online, thats appros 450 people. That is a lot of bandwidth being wasted to an idle player. While i think the DC thing is bad, i also think it is needed, but not in the fashion they have it now. I also agree that MOST, not all, players that get disconnected log back in, but i know sometimes i welcome the DC. I look at the clock and am amazed at the time. Its almost like i just lot out on 1 hour of life and didnt even notice it. Take it for what its worth, but i think the DC is needed. As we all know, nothing is perfect, especially when it comes to VMK, but hopefully it will be improved upon as their time and budget permits.

 

[qruthie]

Wasn't the point of automatic disconnect to disconnect ppl that were idle? And you can't say that everybody logs back in IMMEDIATELY. Some ppl really do log on to vmk, go watch tv and their avatar occupies uneeded space for 45 minutes. I sometimes get in line for something, take a nap and realize I slept too long. And of course I'm dc.

I agree that most ppl aren't idle but waiting in a line, or sitting in a room talking, but if there was no reason to have it....why hasn't VMK gotten rid of it? There must be a logic behind it that only the creators and testors understand. I could easily see some weird server overload that would send the entire game into oblivion because everybody was logged on and never crashed or logged out.

DementedRiku, your points are valid if VMK does have a problem with idle players but I'm not upset about an automatic disconnect for idle players. It's the automatic disconnect for everyone that I don't believe is necessary. I hope this doesn't sound harsh as that's not my intent but the last company I worked for employed Admiral Grace Hopper and I tend to agree with much of her philosophy. I can't do her justice but one of her rules was not to accept the answer of, "That's the way we have always done it." That is what drives me to question the use of an across the board automatic disconnect in VMK.

I didn't intend to imply EVERYBODY logs back in after a disconnect but I am willing to assert that a vast majority of players do. I always log back on although not necessarily with the same character. I know a lot of people on this board who do the same thing.

As for the logic behind the automatic disconnect, I still don't believe there is any real logic behind it. If there is a need to disconnect idle players, then that is what should be implemented. Personally, I'm tired of getting booted out of games, etc. because of the automatic disconnect. I'm rarely idle for very long (other than the problem where your ghost gets left in the game if you don't restart your browser after you exit the game). Actually, VMK should fix that problem first then determine whether or not an automatic disconnect is needed for idle players.

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a software engineer with a degree in computer science and with many years of programming experience. It should be quite easy to implement an automatic disconnect for players who have been idle for a specific amount of time. I created a similar hack/fix for a huge customer. The hack/fix was executed EVERY time the date or time was referenced and it didn't slow down the system performance in any way that the users would notice. I'm quite certain VMK could handle a check for idle time without significantly slowing down the game.

I'm not saying VMK is bad, I'm saying they should reconsider the current implementation of the automatic disconnect.

qruthie (the 'q' is silent)

 

[DementedRiku]

DementedRiku, your points are valid if VMK does have a problem with idle players but I'm not upset about an automatic disconnect for idle players. It's the automatic disconnect for everyone that I don't believe is necessary. I hope this doesn't sound harsh as that's not my intent but the last company I worked for employed Admiral Grace Hopper and I tend to agree with much of her philosophy. I can't do her justice but one of her rules was not to accept the answer of, "That's the way we have always done it." That is what drives me to question the use of an across the board automatic disconnect in VMK.

I didn't intend to imply EVERYBODY logs back in after a disconnect but I am willing to assert that a vast majority of players do. I always log back on although not necessarily with the same character. I know a lot of people on this board who do the same thing.

As for the logic behind the automatic disconnect, I still don't believe there is any real logic behind it. If there is a need to disconnect idle players, then that is what should be implemented. Personally, I'm tired of getting booted out of games, etc. because of the automatic disconnect. I'm rarely idle for very long (other than the problem where your ghost gets left in the game if you don't restart your browser after you exit the game). Actually, VMK should fix that problem first then determine whether or not an automatic disconnect is needed for idle players.

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a software engineer with a degree in computer science and with many years of programming experience. It should be quite easy to implement an automatic disconnect for players who have been idle for a specific amount of time. I created a similar hack/fix for a huge customer. The hack/fix was executed EVERY time the date or time was referenced and it didn't slow down the system performance in any way that the users would notice. I'm quite certain VMK could handle a check for idle time without significantly slowing down the game.

I'm not saying VMK is bad, I'm saying they should reconsider the current implementation of the automatic disconnect.

qruthie (the 'q' is silent)

No, I really do enjoy hearing your side! I never take anything personal!

I feel like we all dc because the computer can't tell who's idle and active. I keep going back to staff games and such but if one person is in line waiting they are technically being idle. Even if there at the computer waiting. It seems like the system confuses idle and active people. And note this is from the standpoint of 17 year old teenager who thinks she knows everything! lol

I'm interested in this hack/fix thing? Could you explain more about it?