Sports: Deflate-Gate

[bcla]

I don't know how you'd deflate a ball (sorry, non-sports family here). Do you just stick the needle into a valve or something? Wouldn't it look suspicious if the ball boy, for example, was covering each ball for a few seconds either as they were transferred into the ball bag, or as he handed them off to a player/ref? Wouldn't that be noticeable? The balls are under the control of the referees until they are out on the field. I guess if the balls go out to the field in a box someone might be able to deflate them as they put them into the ball bag (I read that the balls were on the sideline in a bag, and although I didn't notice it on Sunday I have seen the balls kept that way at other games) but I still think it'd be noticeable, especially if you are doing this to 11 balls. (and why not all 12?) If the balls go out onto the field in the ball bag, how do you keep track of all the balls you are deflating, without being noticed? I think it's all curious, and odd.

If it's raining, they get troweled off. That's my speculation where a needle could be surreptitiously inserted.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I wouldn't say baseless. I've taken the air out of balls with an inflation needle. It's not that hard.

Maybe speculative, the question basically opened up speculation.

In any case, it's pretty obvious that it was done intentionally by someone with access to the balls. Only the officials and equipment personnel for the offense have access to them. So do you need a slide rule to figure out who did it?

The identical amount of air from close to a dozen balls?

 

[bcla]

The identical amount of air from close to a dozen balls?

Practice doing something often enough and you can do it well. I mean - if a quarterback can throw a football 40 yards and hit a receiver on the numbers, is it beyond imagination that someone could manage to deflate 2 PSI from almost a dozen footballs. As was posted elsewhere, the one that was in spec was probably the result of a slacking ballboy.

Besides that, most pressure gauges (including ones for sports equipment) I've seen read out in 0.5 PSI increments. When I'm letting the air out of my tires, I'm actually pretty good at getting it to stop on my target as long as it's not that much.

 

[sam_gordon]

So, lets say for the sake of argument, no one could manage to deflate 11 footballs precisely 2psi. So how do you explain 11 balls were 2psi down at half time?

The gauge was incorrect (but only for 11/24 balls) at the pregame?
The gauge was incorrect (only for the 11 balls in question) at halftime?
Something happened (weather/leaks) to only these 11 balls?

 

[Geoff_M]

So, lets say for the sake of argument, no one could manage to deflate 11 footballs precisely 2psi. So how do you explain 11 balls were 2psi down at half time?

The gauge was incorrect (but only for 11/24 balls) at the pregame?
The gauge was incorrect (only for the 11 balls in question) at halftime?
Something happened (weather/leaks) to only these 11 balls?

Sam, the balls were checked with two different sets of gauges at half-time and refs found the results to be consistently 2 lbs. under.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sam, the balls were checked with two different sets of gauges at half-time and refs found the results to be consistently 2 lbs. under.

OK, fine. I'm asking those who are saying the balls couldn't have been intentionally deflated ("when could they do it?", "there's too many cameras", etc) HOW the balls became 2psi low.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

So, lets say for the sake of argument, no one could manage to deflate 11 footballs precisely 2psi. So how do you explain 11 balls were 2psi down at half time?

The gauge was incorrect (but only for 11/24 balls) at the pregame?
The gauge was incorrect (only for the 11 balls in question) at halftime?
Something happened (weather/leaks) to only these 11 balls?

But they filled the Colts balls and the backup balls. I would think if all balls were filled the same if you counted two Mississippi's the same amount of air would come out. I would bet there would be almost a half second between pounds, that's a lot of air.

I cannot believe Tom Brady would not have noticed. He's only been doing this for like 10 years and even mentioned noticing difference in preasure after Gronk spikes a ball.

I would think they are looking at sideline film to see if they could catch the equipment person holding ball under drying blanket for an odd period of time. I wonder if the 12th ball never made it out of the bag.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

On another side I would love to know if it is common that when providing balls for the other team if they fill them to the max limit and fill home to the min. I think this would lead to the away team letting air out and still being in legal levels.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I doubt the balls are really checked well before the game.
Other QBs have said things about liking balls at different pressures.
It's probably one of those that's done but nobody calls each other out on it. Its only a big deal because its the Patriots.

 

[lustergirl]

I give up...


Edit: Hate all you want or love all you want. My opinion of the team and your opinion of the team will still remain the same. That's a general you and a general team...

TAXGUY: Don't beat your head against the wall, haters gonna hate

I am routing for the Patriots and I am a Broncos Fan.

 

[declansdad]

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/laces-...-in-outcome-012115?cmpid=tsmfb:fscom:nflonfox

Colts' Allen says Patriots could have used 'soap for balls' and still won

 

[wvjules]

TAXGUY: Don't beat your head against the wall, haters gonna hate

I am routing for the Patriots and I am a Broncos Fan.

So you believe this is all "haters gonna hate" and that the 11 underinflated balls are ok and not cheating?

Sorry, but I have a huge problem with that. I don't care who the team is - cheating is cheating. If it is confirmed by the league that the Patriots intentionally deflated the balls below the league minimum then they absoutely deserve severe punishment. Especially since this isn't the first time they have been caught cheating. It is not an issue of hating, it is an issue of right, wrong, and cheating.

As for the Colts still losing? So what? Does that make the cheating ok? Cheating is only bad if it changes the outcome of the game? No, cheating is cheating.

And the QBs that like to scruff their balls, have high or low pressure, I'm assuming that these are within the confines of the league rules therefore are not cheating and not a point of which to argue.

 

[mom2rtk]

So you believe this is all "haters gonna hate" and that the 11 underinflated balls are ok and not cheating?

Sorry, but I have a huge problem with that. I don't care who the team is - cheating is cheating. If it is confirmed by the league that the Patriots intentionally deflated the balls below the league minimum then they absoutely deserve severe punishment. Especially since this isn't the first time they have been caught cheating. It is not an issue of hating, it is an issue of right, wrong, and cheating.

As for the Colts still losing? So what? Does that make the cheating ok? Cheating is only bad if it changes the outcome of the game? No, cheating is cheating.

And the QBs that like to scruff their balls, have high or low pressure, I'm assuming that these are within the confines of the league rules therefore are not cheating and not a point of which to argue.

I honestly don't care about this game. But I'm reading this tread just because it's fascinating to hear the discussions trying to justify potential cheating.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I doubt the balls are really checked well before the game.
Other QBs have said things about liking balls at different pressures.
It's probably one of those that's done but nobody calls each other out on it. Its only a big deal because its the Patriots.

1. Rodgers indicated that refs do check balls and takes air out when he has them inflated higher than 13.5 psi.
2. The attitude "everybody does it" lead to the near collapse of major league baseball. There's an entire generation of players who basically cheated. The integrity of the game is important. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[mnrose]

So you believe this is all "haters gonna hate" and that the 11 underinflated balls are ok and not cheating?

Sorry, but I have a huge problem with that. I don't care who the team is - cheating is cheating. If it is confirmed by the league that the Patriots intentionally deflated the balls below the league minimum then they absoutely deserve severe punishment. Especially since this isn't the first time they have been caught cheating. It is not an issue of hating, it is an issue of right, wrong, and cheating.

As for the Colts still losing? So what? Does that make the cheating ok? Cheating is only bad if it changes the outcome of the game? No, cheating is cheating.

And the QBs that like to scruff their balls, have high or low pressure, I'm assuming that these are within the confines of the league rules therefore are not cheating and not a point of which to argue.

I agree with you. I don't give a rats behind about football in general, and have ZERO interest in who "wins" the big game, but I don't like cheating. Cheaters (if proven) deserve to be harshly punished.

There is too much "excuse" in our culture in general for "cheating" being ok, or not something serious. I fear the kind of message this garbage (and others) sends to our young people about right and wrong.

 

[Jellybass]

Being a Pats fan and also disgusted by this, how about we all wait until the story comes out and we find out how the balls lost air? Overly defending or overly accusing at this point is a little silly.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I doubt the balls are really checked well before the game. Other QBs have said things about liking balls at different pressures. It's probably one of those that's done but nobody calls each other out on it. Its only a big deal because its the Patriots.

Do you really think the ref would not do his job on an NFC championship game, and even if they did not how would that lesson the cheating. Only their balls were filled that way.

 

[declansdad]

Being a Pats fan and also disgusted by this, how about we all wait until the story comes out and we find out how the balls lost air? Overly defending or overly accusing at this point is a little silly.

 

[sunshinehighway]

1. Rodgers indicated that refs do check balls and takes air out when he has them inflated higher than 13.5 psi.
2. The attitude "everybody does it" lead to the near collapse of major league baseball. There's an entire generation of players who basically cheated. The integrity of the game is important. Otherwise, what's the point?

It makes way more sense that balls aren't really checked as well as they are saying or they are supposed to than a ball boy or who ever was on the sideline, in front of so many people, secretly deflating balls.

As far as point 2, if it is a common thing and against the rules, then yeah start enforcing it but don't make one team out to be evil, horrible cheaters for it.

Here's an article with a former ball boy's perspective

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/deflate-gate-nfl-ball-boys-perspective-preparing-footballs-n290801

 

[TAX GUY]

Here's my take as of this morning (after more "source releases, interviews with retired officials and players), clearly SOMEONE deflated the balls. Highly doubt it was Brady or Belichick. With so many personnel with the Pats, someone, some where, told that someone to make sure the balls are on the softer side. It's no secret Brady likes or prefers a deflated ball vs a fully inflated ball (he's said it). Of course Brady could feel the difference during the game. They all feel it as well as the refs. They both will also remove/request a different ball if it doesn't feel right. It will be near impossible to determine WHO deflated them (its not a matter of how, SOMEONE did it) unless said person comes forward to claim responsibility OR the person that instructed they be done comes forward. But that won't happen anytime soon. My feeling is the organization will be fined and the team will lose draft picks. If it's anything more than that, it will be appealed. Unless they prove who, what, where and how, they can only impose a "general" penalty.

Not that it says much other than his own opinion, I found this interview with former NFL official and official supervisor Jim Daopoulos interesting as to "feeling" the ball by both officials and players during the game, and what they do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDJmM4X9IJg&feature=youtu.be