Sports: Deflate-Gate

[Disney Ron]

Here's the bottom line: my money is on the pats getting a harsh punishment because McNally assits the referees (that defining element was not part of the Chargers incident). His corruption has important implications for the league, and now the nfl has to determine if his job cannot be trusted to the home team and has to become part of the official crew. I expect a big fine and a few lost draft picks or a salary cap hit or something. I'm not up on all the available punishments.

I expect Tom to get suspended for a few games for encouraging this corruption, at least tacitly. I'd put the over/under at 3 games.

And punishments are higher for repeat offenders, so that's factored into my thinking.

GrnMtnMan, question for you. Because of Spygate, do you believe, like most of the country, that the Pats first 3 Super Bowl wins in'01,'03 and '04 are tainted?

 

[TAX GUY]

I agree there was a conspiracy here, but not one *against* the Patriots....rather one perpetrated by the Patriots.

It amuses me that folks are still questioning whether or not 'deflation' happened. I mean the guy calls himself *THE DEFLATOR*. He inexplicably took the game balls to a place where they shouldn't have gone. And spent enough time there to slightly deflate 12ish balls.

And do you really believe that a part-time equipment manager would unilaterally decide to deflate the game balls being used in the AFC championship game? You really think Tom didn't give him some instructions (either directly or some indirect manner) on what to do? Remember, he wasn't a full-time guy, one who only worked on home games, and just in the officials locker room. Brady doesn't seem him every day..or possibly ever. How would he know how Tom liked his balls without some sort of conspiracy?

I don't think anyone is arguing that (clearly they were under the required PSI). I also continue to say there is no doubt Brady's preference was known (he and Manning spoke to the league and media about it to try and get them to allow it). Of course Brady expressed his desire to have the balls on the softer side. I'm pretty sure he didn't give the "direct order" but there is no doubt it worked its way down the chain of command.

 

[Disney Ron]

I agree there was a conspiracy here, but not one *against* the Patriots....rather one perpetrated by the Patriots.

It amuses me that folks are still questioning whether or not 'deflation' happened. I mean the guy calls himself *THE DEFLATOR*. He inexplicably took the game balls to a place where they shouldn't have gone. And spent enough time there to slightly deflate 12ish balls.

And do you really believe that a part-time equipment manager would unilaterally decide to deflate the game balls being used in the AFC championship game? You really think Tom didn't give him some instructions (either directly or some indirect manner) on what to do? Remember, he wasn't a full-time guy, one who only worked on home games, and just in the officials locker room. Brady doesn't seem him every day..or possibly ever. How would he know how Tom liked his balls without some sort of conspiracy?

Does he call himself the "Deflater" or does he call himself the "Deflater below legal limits"? What if the refs have it inflated over the 12.5 psi Brady likes and he deflated down to that psi. He would still technically be the "Deflater".

 

[TAX GUY]

Where's the spy gate fines? Wasn't it $500k for Coach and $250k for the team?

Good question..... I don't know how old that chart is (shame on me for posting before looking). Even if we add the $250k. they are still well below the most fined teams in the league.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I don't think anyone is arguing that (clearly they were under the required PSI).

The Mike Florio post that others have linked to in this thread is an attempt to put the PSI measurements in doubt. If we didn't have the video of the balls being mishandled by McNally and the texts where he calls himself the deflator, the measurement might have been the only evidence of malfeasance.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

GrnMtnMan, question for you. Because of Spygate, do you believe, like most of the country, that the Pats first 3 Super Bowl wins in'01,'03 and '04 are tainted?

Of course they're tainted. Just like this year's is. Just Like Barry Bonds' and Mark McQwire's home run records. But they still stand.

I'm not arguing that they should be vacated like Calapari's final fours, or Penn State's Sandusky era wins.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Good question..... I don't know how old that chart is (shame on me for posting before looking). Even if we add the $250k. they are still well below the most fined teams in the league.

They both look a little flawed (methodologically) to me, as it looks like the top one includes salary cap hits for the uncapped year with no-rules-but-there-really-were-rules. I believe those fines are still in litigation.

 

[undertheradar]

Good question..... I don't know how old that chart is (shame on me for posting before looking). Even if we add the $250k. they are still well below the most fined teams in the league.

Somehow the total dollars fined does not equal the number of violations. You can see obvious flagrant hits that go completely ignored by the on field officials. Some NFL teams appear to get a "free pass" when it comes to punishment from the league. The NFL has to do something this time, as again, the Patriots have been pushing the boundaries.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Does he call himself the "Deflater" or does he call himself the "Deflater below legal limits"? What if the refs have it inflated over the 12.5 psi Brady likes and he deflated down to that psi. He would still technically be the "Deflater".

Don't think he's supposed to be doing *anything* to the balls after the officials have inspected them. Kind of violates the spirit of good sportsmanship if he does, doesn't it?

 

[wdwcoltsfan]

Somehow the total dollars fined does not equal the number of violations. You can see obvious flagrant hits that go completely ignored by the on field officials. Some NFL teams appear to get a "free pass" when it comes to punishment from the league. The NFL has to do something this time, as again, the Patriots have been pushing the boundaries.

It's a little muddled in how they came to these figures. In the second chart where the Colts have 3+ million in fines, it looks like the bulk of that is the two 4 game suspensions that Robert Mathis and LaRon Landry served($2mil and 1.5mil respectively). I have searched and can't find where Mathis was fined AND served a 4 game suspension. Then of course there are the misc. late hit charges that are actual fines.

If this is how it is figured, imagine what the Pats total will be for next year if Brady is suspended for any length of time. The stat will look horrible, but the bulk of it will be associated with one infraction.

 

[Disney Ron]

Of course they're tainted. Just like this year's is. Just Like Barry Bonds' and Mark McQwire's home run records. But they still stand.

I'm not arguing that they should be vacated like Calapari's final fours, or Penn State's Sandusky era wins.

Just what I wanted you to say. Now I know you haters don't deal in facts, you only deal in jealousy and hatred. So here's some FACTS that you can't ignore.

When haters say the first 3 Super Bowls are tainted, because of Spygate, it shows how misguided they(you) are. Spygate was created because in the first game in 2007 the Pats taped the Jets signals from the sidelines and not from the stands or the booth. Do you know when the NFL adopted the rule change that a team no longer could tape the oppositions signals from the sideline? That rule was initiated in the 2006 season. So every season before 2006 it WAS legal to tape the oppositions signals from the sideline. The Pats won their first 3 Super Bowls in '01, '03 and '04, so how were those championships tainted because of Spygate?

See what happens when you deal in FACTS?

 

[Disney Ron]

Don't think he's supposed to be doing *anything* to the balls after the officials have inspected them. Kind of violates the spirit of good sportsmanship if he does, doesn't it?

And where's the proof he deflated them AFTER the officials gave him the balls? Because he used the bathroom?

BTW the NFL was asked why at halftime they only checked 4 Colts balls? Their answer was they ran out of time. So the NFL says McNally took the balls into the bathroom for 100 seconds and they say that's enough time to deflate 12 balls, but during halftime they ran out of time to check all 12 of the Colts balls. How convenient.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I guess you caught me in a timeline mistake. Kudos.


Everything that Belichick has done is tainted and now Brady has been demonstrated to be a less than honorable sportsman. The Pats now have a reputation as sneaky cheaters. Everyone outside of the most ardent fans can see that.

How are those facts for you? This is my favorite coverage of the story so far....

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Thanks for keeping this discussion so much fun!!!!

And where's the proof he deflated them AFTER the officials gave him the balls? Because he used the bathroom?

BTW the NFL was asked why at halftime they only checked 4 Colts balls? Their answer was they ran out of time. So the NFL says McNally took the balls into the bathroom for 100 seconds and they say that's enough time to deflate 12 balls, but during halftime they ran out of time to check all 12 of the Colts balls. How convenient.

Are you trying to convince me that 'the deflator' didn't deflate them, or yourself? I think most of your Pats fans have passed the denial stage and are on to anger and bargaining:

Tom did you a disservice, and this was all created by the coach's culture of win at all costs, the rules be d***ed!!!

 

[JanaDee]

I guess you caught me in a timeline mistake. Kudos.


Everything that Belichick has done is tainted and now Brady has been demonstrated to be a less than honorable sportsman. The Pats now have a reputation as sneaky cheaters. Everyone outside of the most ardent fans can see that.

How are those facts for you? This is my favorite coverage of the story so far....

Gronk is the epitome of a meathead.

 

[Disney Ron]

I guess you caught me in a timeline mistake. Kudos.


Everything that Belichick has done is tainted and now Brady has been demonstrated to be a less than honorable sportsman. The Pats now have a reputation as sneaky cheaters. Everyone outside of the most ardent fans can see that.

How are those facts for you? This is my favorite coverage of the story so far....

Really? Once again you WERE allowed to tape signals from the sidelines during the first 3 championship seasons so they aren't tainted. And Belicheck was cleared in the Wells Report of the deflation charges. So what is tainted that Belicheck has done?

 

[GrnMtnMan]

So what is tainted that Belicheck has done?

The 2014-15 AFC Championship, at a minimum.

 

[TAX GUY]

The 2014-15 AFC Championship, at a minimum.

Good spot for this...

 

[Disney Ron]

The 2014-15 AFC Championship, at a minimum.

How is it tainted because of Belicheck when the Wells Report said he knew nothing about the deflated balls?

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Good spot for this...

Touche!