Spontaneity at WDW Gone

[Suvadoo]

The point is that absolute statements on either side are easily refuted. So it doesn't make sense to nitpick wording on pro-FP+ posts, yet give a pass to anti-FP+ declarations that include "have to" "necessity" "mandatory" etc etc. My point is that it's all voluntary and based on personal preferences, so saying that FP+ makes a person do something is as silly as saying FP- made a person do something. It's not Skynet!!!!

Will you agree that if you want to maximize use of FP+ it does require more pre planning than the Legacy system?

 

[davedmaine]

I just posted my experience as I missed when someone asked for it ahead of time. Feel free to continue that a marketing campaign requires more of you than in the past. They also hAve a must do campaign. If it rules you life as to what is necessary, then so be it. Disney making something AVAILABLE as an option does not make it a requirement or require "more" of you. It does not have to and that is the point even if you use the system. And that is truth.

Seems like you're taking general fp+ criticism as a personal attack

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Will you agree that if you want to maximize use of FP+ it does require more pre planning than the Legacy system?

No--because "maximize" is relative. It cannot be measured.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Seems like you're taking general fp+ criticism as a personal attack

Very much not the case. I am engaging in back and forth and responding accordingly.

And until folks stop insisting that generally--certain behavior is a requirement or mandatory, I will continue enjoying responding to such fallacies.

 

[wisblue]

Worthwhile is in the eye of the beholder.

I would really be curious to know what you consider a worthwhile FP.

To me, a worthwhile FP is one that is (1) for an attraction that I want to do, (2) at a time that is convenient, and (3) at a time when the standby line is likely to be longer than I would be willing to wait.

On our recent trips we have had no problem getting worthwhile FPs even the day before or same day.

For example, when we went to the FP kiosk near Stitch at 2 PM on a Sunday afternoon and, in less than 5 minutes, had FPs for BTMRR with a 3:30 return time so we could ride after the FOF parade and before our 4:30 dinner reservation, I considered that a worthwhile FP.

 

[Hokie2000]

And while we did do everything we wanted--I will confess that I really didn't. But to my knowledge, FP+ didn't make me pregnant.

I enjoyed your whole post, but this last part made me lol.

 

[Hokie2000]

Will you agree that if you want to maximize use of FP+ it does require more pre planning than the Legacy system?

Of course, I think I already did that somewhere in this thread, but it's easy for posts to get lost in such a long discussion. I think the whole point of FP+ is preplanning so if you use it and especially if you want to maximize it you will do something you were never even able to do with legacy - sign up for 3 attractions on a website before you even get to a park.

I can understand how different people will either like it, dislike it, or not have a strong feeling about it at all.

 

[Suvadoo]

Of course, I think I already did that somewhere in this thread, but it's easy for posts to get lost in such a long discussion. I think the whole point of FP+ is preplanning so if you use it and especially if you want to maximize it you will do something you were never even able to do with legacy - sign up for 3 attractions on a website before you even get to a park.

I can understand how different people will either like it, dislike it, or not have a strong feeling about it at all.

Thank you for answering my question. I'm glad FP+ works for you.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What is is hard a it recognizing that it is a) a choice and b) doing this earlier is not tantamount to increased effort generally speaking?

What I said is that there was more PRE-planning. I even went so far as to explain that it took planning we would normally do in the parks and moved it to earlier, and that it WASN'T "more overall planning" but that it was "more PRE-planning".

By taking planning you used to do in the parks and moving it to before your arrival, you are - in fact - increasing your PRE-planning, *without* increasing your overall planning. This is *all* that I have said.

Pretty sure that saying the above is also, in fact, recognizing that "doing this earlier is not tantamount to increased effort."

I do appreciate the clarification that parts of the end of your post were not directed at me, but the above quote did still seem directed at our conversation. I don't want you to think I ignored or didn't see your clarifications, though.

I honestly ask the question - why is it somehow bad to say that FP+ increased my pre-planning (again, not overall planning, but pre-arrival planning). Disney has specifically said that was their goal - to get people to plan ahead more, to lock them in. Why is saying that that is exactly what happened bad? Why is there a need to "successfully attribute" the experience to FP+, when Disney designed FP+ with that exact goal in mind? My posts in this thread were never meant as a condemnation of FP+ (or acclamation of it either). Just as a neutral report of what our experience was with the pre-planning aspect.

 

[JimmyV]

No--because "maximize" is relative. It cannot be measured.

It's relative but within certain common boundaries. Few people go to WDW with the intent of riding only "C" level attractions. And those folks don't need to worry about spontaneity or read this thread. They can tour as they always have. But for those who think that you don't have to use FP+ or do any planning, sure that's true. Ayn Rand. Free will. I get it. But if you think that you can consistently ride headliners with less than 45 minute waits or get passes for said rides at the spur of the moment, good luck with that. As noted by two posters above: 1) the system was designed to encourage planning to "lock you in" to Disney property; and 2) a casual, unplanned trip in October, 2014 was very different than in the past. Denial of these two points guarantees waiting in longer SB lines for headliners or skipping certain attractions. You are free to choose that path, so no, no one "has" to plan ahead.

 

[Hokie2000]

No--because "maximize" is relative. It cannot be measured.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying on this thread, but I think here the pp has a valid point. Maximize is relative but I think, and the poster can correct me if I'm wrong, that maximize means getting FPs for the newest and most popular attractions, in which case there is a definite advantage to planning as early as possible. Within those parameters the pre- part of the planning becomes more important.

What I'm saying is if someone is determined to get the most popular FPs then pre-planning can become a requirement for them, but that doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

 

[JimmyV]

What I'm saying is if someone is determined to get the most popular FPs then pre-planning can become a requirement for them, but that doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

BINGO!! What gets lost here is that this Board is populated by people who go to WDW far more often than the typical guest. If I fail to plan and cannot get on Space Mountain, I can live with that. But for the "trip of a lifetime" family that hasn't read mesaboy2's threads and doesn't grasp FP+, arriving and not being able to take their girls to see Ana & Elsa, or having to wait in 60+ minute lines for every headliner can be the difference between having a great time or being miserable. Most people who go three times a year can "wing it" and not feel deprived if they miss something "big". But that attitude is not shared by many people who are less frequent guests. They are spending $5,000 to see the popular attractions. It cannot be intelligently argued that pre-planning would not benefit that demographic.

 

[JimmyV]

I missed this the first time. Appreciate you inquiry.

.....
We made a somewhat last minute decision for our arrival day (Sunday 11/30) to hit MK first instead of EPCOT to get a ride on Haunted Mansion which would be closed the rest of the week.

Crowd Level:
What we predicted: 4 out of 10
What we saw: 2 out of 10

.....
The rest of the week:
Each day, we would switch any FP if the wait was minimal once we got to a ride. ....
Monday was DHS--

Crowd Level:
What we predicted: 4 out of 10
What we saw: 2 out of 10

Tuesday was MK:

Crowd Level:
What we predicted: 3 out of 10
What we saw: 1 out of 10

I could go on. But you get the point. Using your experience on Crowd Level days of 1s and 2s is not going to assuage the fears of others about pre-planning when they are going at more crowded times.

 

[Jennasis]

I would really be curious to know what you consider a worthwhile FP.

To me, a worthwhile FP is one that is (1) for an attraction that I want to do, (2) at a time that is convenient, and (3) at a time when the standby line is likely to be longer than I would be willing to wait.

On our recent trips we have had no problem getting worthwhile FPs even the day before or same day.

For example, when we went to the FP kiosk near Stitch at 2 PM on a Sunday afternoon and, in less than 5 minutes, had FPs for BTMRR with a 3:30 return time so we could ride after the FOF parade and before our 4:30 dinner reservation, I considered that a worthwhile FP.

I didn't enjoy using FP+ from start to finish. It did not work well for our style of vacationing, and it was in no way a better system for us than legacy. I'm not defending my position anymore. Get over it.

 

[Hokie2000]

BINGO!! What gets lost here is that this Board is populated by people who go to WDW far more often than the typical guest. If I fail to plan and cannot get on Space Mountain, I can live with that. But for the "trip of a lifetime" family that hasn't read mesaboy2's threads and doesn't grasp FP+, arriving and not being able to take their girls to see Ana & Elsa, or having to wait in 60+ minute lines for every headliner can be the difference between having a great time or being miserable. Most people who go three times a year can "wing it" and not feel deprived if they miss something "big". But that attitude is not shared by many people who are less frequent guests. They are spending $5,000 to see the popular attractions. It cannot be intelligently argued that pre-planning would not benefit that demographic.

I agree 100% with this post, but would like to add that there have always been benefits to pre-planning, and miserable trips have always been some people's experience due to crowds and long lines. You could take your post and substitute old-school FP for FP+ and it would still be true.

Several years ago I read a very funny book titled Stop Dressing Your Six-Year-Old Like a ****. One chapter was dedicated to their disastrous Spring Break WDW trip b/c the author did zero planning, it was crazy crowded and they couldn't do anything her daughter wanted to do. Fail to plan, plan to wait in line. As true today as it ever was!!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It's relative but within certain common boundaries. Few people go to WDW with the intent of riding only "C" level attractions. And those folks don't need to worry about spontaneity or read this thread. They can tour as they always have. But for those who think that you don't have to use FP+ or do any planning, sure that's true. Ayn Rand. Free will. I get it. But if you think that you can consistently ride headliners with less than 45 minute waits or get passes for said rides at the spur of the moment, good luck with that. As noted by two posters above: 1) the system was designed to encourage planning to "lock you in" to Disney property; and 2) a casual, unplanned trip in October, 2014 was very different than in the past. Denial of these two points guarantees waiting in longer SB lines for headliners or skipping certain attractions. You are free to choose that path, so no, no one "has" to plan ahead.

Actually, with Disney adding FP to C level attractions, one really can't do these rides the way they always have as the SB lines are now backed up thanks to FP+.



Maybe a better system would have been 1 or 2 FP+ and keep it exclusive to "e ticket" attractions. But of course that wouldn't line up with Disney's goal of taking heat off A rides by pushing lines over to the B & C attractions.

 

[ORMom2Four]

I disagree with the OP. I just woke up and decided to do MK this morning instead of Epcot. I went on MDE and made FPs for Mansion, Mine Train, and Peter Pan.

I am curious how many are in your group, of it's just you?

I've been checking last night and this morning but nothing opened up for Mine Train OR Peter Pan

We are headed to Magic Kingdom after lunch anyway. Going to hit Autopia, Buzz and Haunted Mansion, then just stroll around and do some shopping before we get kicked out due to the party. I imagine the lines will be long today!

 

[Suvadoo]

I agree 100% with this post, but would like to add that there have always been benefits to pre-planning, and miserable trips have always been some people's experience due to crowds and long lines. You could take your post and substitute old-school FP for FP+ and it would still be true.

Several years ago I read a very funny book titled Stop Dressing Your Six-Year-Old Like a ****. One chapter was dedicated to their disastrous Spring Break WDW trip b/c the author did zero planning, it was crazy crowded and they couldn't do anything her daughter wanted to do. Fail to plan, plan to wait in line. As true today as it ever was!!

You're right., pre -planning was always required for a WDW vacation but now with FP+,additional pre-planning is needed if you want to avoid some SB lines.

 

[Hokie2000]

I didn't enjoy using FP+ from start to finish. It did not work well for our style of vacationing, and it was in no way a better system for us than legacy. I'm not defending my position anymore. Get over it.

Why join a discussion to state a position you don't want to defend? Why bring something up that you don't want to talk about?

 

[MrInfinity]

Arrival day we entered around 12pm, the 2nd day we didn't go into a park til 7pm (spectator party tx) as DH was resting for the 1/2 marathon, the 3rd day we entered around 12pm as we'd been up til 4am for the 1/2 marathon.

What is your argument here? Under FP- if you show up at noon like this everything would be gone. Now with FP+, if you show up at noon it's just the same. But with FP+ and a little planning, you could (dont have to) reserve a few rides in advance and have them waiting for you.

It was way more pre-planning than we've ever done before.

But you did it by choice, and given you'd be arriving late, it helped you. With FP- you simply could not plan and would have nothing available when you arrive.

But it was more planning than just saying "hey, I want to ride Space, 7DMT and BTMRR on this day!"

Actually it is that simple for most people. It may not be for you, by your own choosing.

And that's without even going into having to read mesaboy's thread and josh's tutorials on EasyWDW to figure out the FP+ interface

Nobody reads these except for ppl on the Dis, which was already calculated to be less than 1% of Disney-goers. If the 99% of non-commando regular visitors can figure it out, then surely Disboards fanatics can too. When you say "having to read the thread" that is only because you feel compelled to optimize to the max. That is a personality trait of you and I, but has nothing to do with the requirement to read those threads. The Disney material *is* enough for most people to be able to figure out FP+. It's not rocket science and is no more difficult than using Facebook or Angry Birds.