Spondylosis in Dogs

[Am_I_There_Yet]

Griffin is 13 and was just recently put on Rimadyl. He seemed to start having problems all of a sudden. He started to drag one of his back legs. He limps on it and is very shaky. The vet did x-rays and found that his hips are very bad an that his spine is also in pretty bad shape. Other than this, he is in really great shape. It just makes me so sad. I took him for a walk around the block yesterday and last night he could barely get up.

Awww, I'm sorry. It's so hard watching them struggle.

 

[louey]

I'm sorry you're dealing with it too, but it's so nice to know that your Golden seems to be handling it okay. Chloe was on Previcox for awhile and I didn't notice her getting any better.

I took her off of it 24 hours ago, to start her on the Rimadyl. She has to have a 48 hour break between stopping one and starting the other. Ironically, she seemed more of her old self yesterday, after not having the meds. I almost hate to put her on the Rimadyl now, but hate to take any chances.



I am researching other avenues of treatment for her. We're seriously considering putting in a swimming pool. Acupuncture and water therapy are two methods I see mentioned all the time.

I work so much, so it would be tough for me to take her to therapy (I'd do it though, if I had to), but if I had a pool, I could take my laptop outside and let her swim. She loves the water and used to swim all the time back when I had a swimming pool.

Aimeedyan sent me some names of holistic vets in my area. I plan on calling them first thing tomorrow. I think that might be a good path to look into.

ETA: The x-rays also went to the radiologist, so in that sense, I will be getting a second set of eyes to look them over. He's trained to do nothing but, so I'm interested to hear his diagnosis. I should hear something around Tuesday.



Thank you!

Am I there yet, you sound so caring and concerned and I just wanted to say Chloe is a lucky dog to be in such good hands

 

[cabanafrau]

Please take a serious look into acupuncture. It was the best thing I ever did for our Dudley. It wasn't for the same condition, but it made him far more comfortable and active for many months -- w/ no worries of side effects.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

Is she on oral Glucosamine or Adequan injections?

 

[Aimeedyan]

Just found this post - great suggestions already. I hope you have some luck finding the best care for Chloe.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Sorry. I hope the medications help.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

Am I there yet, you sound so caring and concerned and I just wanted to say Chloe is a lucky dog to be in such good hands

She's a wonderful dog. It's hard not to love her.

Please take a serious look into acupuncture. It was the best thing I ever did for our Dudley. It wasn't for the same condition, but it made him far more comfortable and active for many months -- w/ no worries of side effects.

I'm definitely going to look into it. Can you tell me how your dog tolerated it? Chloe is petrified of the vet. I'm just wondering if I'll be able to stay with her and how long a treatment takes.

Is she on oral Glucosamine or Adequan injections?

My vet says Glucosamine doesn't work as well as people thinks it does. I honestly have no idea. I've never tried it.

Adequan is one of the things I'm going to be calling about tomorrow. I also found this article: http://www.eudaemonic.net/rvi-cani.htm

This particular vet isn't very aggressive. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow to try to find a vet who has treated this. I'm going to start with Gulf Coast Veterinary Hospital to see if they can recommend someone to me. It's a hospital staffed with specialists, so hopefully they'll be able to direct me to someone.

Is this something that you see a lot in your practice?

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

Is this something that you see a lot in your practice?

Unfortunately, yes. I probably spend 75% of my time treating parasites, allergies, and arthritis... with the later two being the most frustrating. I look at Glucosamine and Adequan like I do vitamin C or echinacea, it can't hurt and it may help. Actually I would recommend both for your dog.
I've had good luck with a drug called Deramaxx. It's similar to Rimadyl, Previcox, and some of the others mentioned in this thread. NSAIDS in dogs are like NSAIDS in people (although don't give people NSAIDS to your dog ), some people have a great response to one but not the others, while another person will do better on a different one. If you aren't happy with Chloe's response to one drug, ask for a different one.
I think taking her for a specialist consult is a good idea. They may have some new product or combination of products that they're trying out that us 'regular' DVM's may not be aware of. Be sure to ask them about exercise/physical therapy and possibly water therapy as well.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

Unfortunately, yes. I probably spend 75% of my time treating parasites, allergies, and arthritis... with the later two being the most frustrating. I look at Glucosamine and Adequan like I do vitamin C or echinacea, it can't hurt and it may help. Actually I would recommend both for your dog.
I've had good luck with a drug called Deramaxx. It's similar to Rimadyl, Previcox, and some of the others mentioned in this thread. NSAIDS in dogs are like NSAIDS in people (although don't give people NSAIDS to your dog ), some people have a great response to one but not the others, while another person will do better on a different one. If you aren't happy with Chloe's response to one drug, ask for a different one.
I think taking her for a specialist consult is a good idea. They may have some new product or combination of products that they're trying out that us 'regular' DVM's may not be aware of. Be sure to ask them about exercise/physical therapy and possibly water therapy as well.

Thank you so much. I will get the Glucosamine tomorrow.

My workload tomorrow will hopefully be light enough for me to do lots of research.

So far, she's 48 hours off of the NSAIDS (she's still getting the Tramadol though) and she seems the same. No worse, but no better. This makes me so torn on starting the Rimadyl tomorrow. I hate to give her something that isn't going to make a difference and could potentially hurt her.

This is tough. I wish I had your brain right now.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

Honestly, I think the danger of Rimadyl and similar products is over-rated. And from an owner's side, Griffin (in my signature) needed Deramaxx in order to be comfortable. I wasn't going to let a 'potential' problem keep me from controlling his pain.

ETA: Yes, it is tough. I was a mess over Griffin. *hugs*

 

[geetey]

I know it isn't the exact same but..... my dh takes glucosamine for his back. He has had 3 back surgeries (starting at age 26) and it has made a HUGE difference for him! He can go on a golf weekend - play 36 holes a day - and come back ready to go to work. Before the glucosamine, he would have been laid up for a couple of days. The only downside to the supplement appears to be that it can take a couple of weeks before you feel the difference.

Hopefully this will work for your sweet Chloe. It works great (for those it works). I will say some prayers for her!

 

[IMISSDISNEY]

Just recently I took my nine year old boxer to the vet because she was limping and seemed to be in pain. She had trouble even moving around. He took x-rays of her back legs and also of her back. They found she had arthritis pretty bad in one knee and Spondylosis. The Vet said that it was the worst case of Spondylosis he had ever scene and when he showed me the x-rays it looked the it was one third or more down her back.
He suggested we put her on previcox and start Adequan injections. The previcox was given every day for a week ,now I give it to her every other day. The Adequan shots are a series of eight shots. They are given twice a week for four weeks. We just had shot number six on Friday. Im not sure if we will go every so often for other shots after the eight are done. I will ask that question at are next shot appointment.
My boxer is doing great, I cannot believe the change in her. I can tell the pain is gone and she can jump on and off my bed again , into and out of the car and when she gets excited she wiggles all over. I know that not all treatment works the same way in all dog but this has worked wonderfully.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I can tell the pain is gone and she can jump on and off my bed again

I'm glad your dog is feeling better. Be very careful in allowing jumping on and off the bed or other high places. A fractured vertebra could be disastrous in a dog with spondylosis.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Some of the newer classes of drugs are wonderful.

The thing that people need to remember, though, is that our bodies feel pain for a reason. When something's injured or inflammed, it needs to rest and/or heal. If we take pain away completely by masking an exisiting problem, that resting/healing doesn't occur. This was part of the reason my vet always opted to go easy on pain meds, especially when it came to matters of "acute" limping. (And for the record, he did prescribe an NSAID later in my dog's life.)

A_I_T_Y, spondylosis is something that usually evolves over time. It may or may not be what caused Chloe's current limping. You probably don't need to rush into making any major decisions. See how she does. As I said above, limping for a few days, while not ideal, will in actuality help her rest whatever it is that's bothering her and give you a better sense of whether it's going to go away or not. If it does, then you'd need to decide what, if anything, to give to Chloe for the spondylosis that you now know she has. If it doesn't, then you'd need to make some treatment decisions, many of which have been mentioned in this thread.

As for the wheels, well those weren't something that were needed until many years after the initial diagnosis of spondylosis. He did just fine for a very long time on his own.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

Some of the newer classes of drugs are wonderful.

I just got through reading some pretty scary stuff about Previcox too. I think if I dig deep enough I'm going to find something bad about any NSAID. She's been on Previcox for around three weeks straight now, with no side effects.

She's been off of them going on three days now. Yesterday I had her outside with me and she saw a squirrel about two stories higher than our house, two yards over, climbing in and out of its nest. She was laying down. Well, Chloe in all her wisdom (or lack thereof!), thought it was climbing on the roof of our garage.

So, off she went. And off I went after her yelling not to run.

I noticed after that that she was picking that leg up higher than the other one. Like she was overcompensating for some reason. Since it hadn't been 48 hours yet, I couldn't give her the Rimadyl and since I wasn't sure if I was going to try it or not, I didn't want to give her the Previcox. I figured I'd let her rest it and see if it got better again. Better, being a relative term now.

By the evening, she was back to her stiff limp. Now it's morning, time for me to give her something and I still haven't done it yet. I am giving her the 150mg of Tramadol twice a day (she's a big girl; not your average-size Golden - something else we're working on).

I wish I could instantly snap the education into my head, because I don't feel like my vet is as educated about this as I feel he should be. Perhaps it's just that he hasn't treated it, but the comments he's made to me lead me to believe he's not. Not once has he mentioned injections of any kind, acupuncture or hydro-therapy. His only advice was to "keep this dog quiet, give her Rimadyl and see how it goes".

The thing that people need to remember, though, is that our bodies feel pain for a reason. When something's injured or inflammed, it needs to rest and/or heal. If we take pain away completely by masking an exisiting problem, that resting/healing doesn't occur. This was part of the reason my vet always opted to go easy on pain meds, especially when it came to matters of "acute" limping. (And for the record, he did prescribe an NSAID later in my dog's life.)

I agree with this. I realize that Chloe will never be the same, even if she acts like she is. We haven't let her up on our bed in almost two weeks now and are heaving her in and out of my car when we take her places.

I sure miss snuggling with her at night though. I think I'm going to have to invest in some dog steps.

A_I_T_Y, spondylosis is something that usually evolves over time. It may or may not be what caused Chloe's current limping. You probably don't need to rush into making any major decisions. See how she does. As I said above, limping for a few days, while not ideal, will in actuality help her rest whatever it is that's bothering her and give you a better sense of whether it's going to go away or not. If it does, then you'd need to decide what, if anything, to give to Chloe for the spondylosis that you now know she has. If it doesn't, then you'd need to make some treatment decisions, many of which have been mentioned in this thread.

She's been limping, going on a month now. It still could be the new bone growth in the back of the foot too. I'm anxious to hear the radiologist's point of view.

As for the wheels, well those weren't something that were needed until many years after the initial diagnosis of spondylosis. He did just fine for a very long time on his own.

Right. It's nice to know that there is an alternative available when the time comes though.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

Just recently I took my nine year old boxer to the vet because she was limping and seemed to be in pain. She had trouble even moving around. He took x-rays of her back legs and also of her back. They found she had arthritis pretty bad in one knee and Spondylosis. The Vet said that it was the worst case of Spondylosis he had ever scene and when he showed me the x-rays it looked the it was one third or more down her back.
He suggested we put her on previcox and start Adequan injections. The previcox was given every day for a week ,now I give it to her every other day. The Adequan shots are a series of eight shots. They are given twice a week for four weeks. We just had shot number six on Friday. Im not sure if we will go every so often for other shots after the eight are done. I will ask that question at are next shot appointment.
My boxer is doing great, I cannot believe the change in her. I can tell the pain is gone and she can jump on and off my bed again , into and out of the car and when she gets excited she wiggles all over. I know that not all treatment works the same way in all dog but this has worked wonderfully.

That is such great news!

Do be careful though.

Chloe had been limping and she was doing a little better (on just the Previcox), when she went after a ball at a slow trot. When she came to a stop she let out a small yelp, twisted around to see what the heck had just hurt her and started to not bear any weight on her leg at all.

At this point, we thought she'd finally tore her ACL. It scared me to death and I felt terribly guilty. I'd been warned to keep her as quiet as possible and I was the one that threw the ball. I didn't throw it far, and I thought I'd cause no harm, but I did.

Anyway, we took her in and it ended up being the Spondylosis instead. And here I am.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

I just called my vet and he does give those injections. Why he didn't offer that as an alternative for Chloe is beyond me. The tech told me that he does give them to other patients. I'm a little frustrated. I just don't feel like he's being aggressive enough.

I'm waiting for a call from him and I'm going to take it from there, but I'm wondering if it's improper of me to ask for Chloe's x-rays. Are they mine?

She had to be put under to have them taken (not to mention, that visit was $550) and I don't want to put her through that again, and I don't want to keep having to ask for them if I have to see other vets.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

How old is Chloe?

I'm sure your vet knows plenty about this, he's no doubt had many cases in his practice and seen lots of different treatments and responses. (And as a common veterinary problem, there's lots of literature on it available to him as well.) These things can get fairly complicated, that's why there are never any easy answers. Personally, I like taking a "wait and see" approach unless it's something that needs immediate attention. I think sometimes we underestimate the body's ability to heal itself.

Had holistic therapies been more readily available when I was dealing with this issue, I definitely would have looked into those as options.

The beauty of NSAIDs is that they reduce inflammation (as does plain old aspirin). Inflammation = Pain. Their effect can linger for a while since it takes a while for inflammation to build up again. You could always continue with whatever Chloe was on if it was helping her, rather than switch now.

It is good to keep the dog fairly quiet while you're trying to figure out what's going on. But after that, you have to balance exercise with caution. Exercise which doesn't put strain on the back or joints is great, like walking or swimming. Especially if there is a weight issue. Proper weight helps take strain off and would be as much a treatment goal as anything else.

I believe that technically, the XRays are owned by the vet. However, all you need to do is tell them you're getting another opinion and they will let you take them with the promise to return them (sometimes they charge a fee). I think you should just work with your vet for a while on this one and "see how it goes" (sorry ). Remember, this is a long term problem and unless you're going to change vets, it behooves you to work together to come to a solution you can all live with.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

(she's a big girl; not your average-size Golden - something else we're working on).

Oh, I forgot to ask you. Has she been tested for hypothyroidism? It's VERY common in Goldens. Low thyroid will slow down healing as well as decreases energy level. Inactivity leads to loss of muscle tone which leads to decreased mobility. Yes, by all means... get some weight off of her if she is heavy. I always kept Griffin lean and I know that it bought him at least an extra year.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

How old is Chloe?

She'll be eight in July.

I'm sure your vet knows plenty about this, he's no doubt had many cases in his practice and seen lots of different treatments and responses. (And as a common veterinary problem, there's lots of literature on it available to him as well.) These things can get fairly complicated, that's why there are never any easy answers. Personally, I like taking a "wait and see" approach unless it's something that needs immediate attention. I think sometimes we underestimate the body's ability to heal itself.

Had holistic therapies been more readily available when I was dealing with this issue, I definitely would have looked into those as options.

The beauty of NSAIDs is that they reduce inflammation (as does plain old aspirin). Inflammation = Pain. Their effect can linger for a while since it takes a while for inflammation to build up again. You could always continue with whatever Chloe was on if it was helping her, rather than switch now.

That's my problem; she's been on them for three weeks and I don't see any change now that's off of them. She's not any worse. It's like they're doing no good, unless I just don't understand how they work.

I know he told me she had to be off of Previcox for 48 hours before I could give her Rimadyl. I'm assuming so the two drugs don't overlap. Maybe it takes that long for them to leave the system? If that's the case, then she should be worse if they were working. Again - I don't fully understand them, so I could be very wrong.

It is good to keep the dog fairly quiet while you're trying to figure out what's going on. But after that, you have to balance exercise with caution. Exercise which doesn't put strain on the back or joints is great, like walking or swimming. Especially if there is a weight issue. Proper weight helps take strain off and would be as much a treatment goal as anything else.

Chloe is larger than a normal Golden; she's taller and bigger boned. I bought Chloe from a backyard breeder way back before I knew anything about them, or the breed. That's why I'm trying so hard with this lab to do the right thing from the get-go.

The breed standard is 65lbs. There is no way on Earth Chloe could be that weight without being dead. Three vets have listed her ideal weight at 90 - 100lbs. She's 115lbs, but I've already gotten 8lbs off of her. She's a 1/3rd of the way to her goal weight.

I didn't want to make this thread any more confusing than it already is, but Chloe is also on a new drug called Slentrol. She was already getting stiff before this happened and couldn't make it far walking. (I do take some responsibility in her weight gain. I was walking her, but she just couldn't get far, but it's totally my fault that I let it get out of hand.)

Both my vet and I realize that her weight in this condition could be critical in how she ages. She's on this as a last recourse, and so far it and the prescription dog food she's on are working wonders. I can see a difference in her build.

My fear is that she can only be on Slentrol for three months. After that, it's up to me to keep it off of her. Food alone isn't going to do it. It's like a catch 22. I have no doubt that the meds will get the weight off of her, but keeping it off is what scares me. That's why I want to go ahead and put in the pool. Back when I had one, she was in such better shape and it'll be low impact, which I think is what she'll need.

There. That's my horrible dog owner confession. I have a fat dog.

I believe that technically, the XRays are owned by the vet. However, all you need to do is tell them you're getting another opinion and they will let you take them with the promise to return them (sometimes they charge a fee). I think you should just work with your vet for a while on this one and "see how it goes" (sorry ). Remember, this is a long term problem and unless you're going to change vets, it behooves you to work together to come to a solution you can all live with.

I'm going to work with him for now, simply because he knows her history.