Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[Moliphino]

Right. But its origin is in minstrelsy and the original language of the song it's a derivative of is horrible.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1270006610245672960

View attachment 504121

Wait, what's super racist about the Country Bear Jamboree?

 

[Tonyz]

Lol their overlay game is worth questioning, but I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt here that since they’re touching an icon and it’s going to piss off a lot of people, and the fact that it’s going to be a ride that represents a princess of color and is AMERICA’S princess - that they’ll get it right. At least that’s my hope.

Yeah they have set INCREDIBLY high standards for themselves with this decision. They need to make it perfect - the pinnacle of Imagineering.

They've set themselves up like this before and succeeded. Pandora needed to be out-of-this-world good to make people think (a) it made sense for Animal Kingdom and (b) justify how long it took. They cleared that bar 100%.

We'll see if they can do it again. I personally don't have much faith. Maybe they should ask the legendary Rohde for help.

 

[Mit88]

Man though, imagine a "Great Disney Movie Ride" presented in a similar manner? Oh what that could have been!

It wouldnt have been what people in their late 20’s and older would have imagined it to be. It would have been geared towards children and teens that would know the IPs in the scenes. Look at ToT. Kids dont know what the Twilight Zone was...but they know Baby Groot

 

[mickey0624]

Wait, what's super racist about the Country Bear Jamboree?

and the Hoop Dee Doo? Whats racist abut that?

 

[JacknSally]

The ride is based upon the folklore that appeared in the movie which happened to be around for quite some time before the movie. Not sure that makes the ride entirely themed after the movie Song of the South. Disney has a long history of taking existing folklore or existing stories that are in the public domain and spinning them into their own stories and movies.

"It's a film about Uncle Remus, set in post slavery reconstruction Georgia in the 1800's where all of the people of color in the film are SUPER happy about everything - which is problematic"

Not sure I understand your reasoning here. Would it have not been as problematic is they were unhappy in the movie?

I have not seen Song of the South. My understanding from talking to others, especially from talking to Black people, is that, unfortunately, they don't just show him being a happy human being, or being happy because of his increase in freedom. They romanticize Uncle Remus and depict him as reminiscing about how happy he was as an enslaved person. If it's not explicitly stated, it's at least heavily implied that life was great on the plantation. That's a problem.

 

[BrianL]

Wait, what's super racist about the Country Bear Jamboree?

Yeah, aren't they representative of white hillbilly types?

 

[crazy4wdw]

It was an example. People clamor for Horizons to this day but we have survived without it.

Not Me! I've been on anti-depressants since it closed down in 1999

 

[BrianL]

It wouldnt have been what people in their late 20’s and older would have imagined it to be. It would have been geared towards children and teens that would know the IPs in the scenes. Look at ToT. Kids dont know what the Twilight Zone was...but they know Baby Groot

Again, why do they have to know the IPs? They can be introduced to them from the rides. For a Disney GMR I would go chronologically and include all of the high points.

 

[nkosiek]

While I like the song and the ride, it's hard to say the Song of the South was "a product of its time". It was the 1940s and it wasn't like Disney didn't know Song of the South was fully racist when the movie came out. There were many articles and complaints at the time that called it out for being racist and Disney just ignored them.

No, I'm cool with calling it what I did. We hadn't integrated our troops yet, Brown hadn't been decided, and though there may have been calls at the time, most of the country at that point would have had no problem with it. That said, times change. One can like catchy-ness of the song while recognizing it came from a fiddle song in the 1830s that was used in minstrel shows performed in blackface.

 

[Krandor]

Lol their overlay game is worth questioning, but I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt here that since they’re touching an icon and it’s going to piss off a lot of people, and the fact that it’s going to be a ride that represents a princess of color and is AMERICA’S princess - that they’ll get it right. At least that’s my hope.

I think so too. This is not one to mess up and I don't think they will.

 

[MrsBooch]

The ride is based upon the folklore that appeared in the movie which happened to be around for quite some time before the movie. Not sure that makes the ride entirely themed after the movie Song of the South. Disney has a long history of taking existing folklore or existing stories that are in the public domain and spinning them into their own stories and movies.

"It's a film about Uncle Remus, set in post slavery reconstruction Georgia in the 1800's where all of the people of color in the film are SUPER happy about everything - which is problematic" Not sure I understand your reasoning here. Would it have not been as problematic is they were unhappy in the movie?

Frankly - yes.

The theme is problematic/racist because it portrays a caricature of racist culture.

Uncle Remus is in a plantation in Georgia in the late 1800's singing zip a dee doo da and he actually reminisces in the movie over a time "long ago" when things were "mighty satisfactual" and "better all around". Those are things that were actually said so given the timing of the movie....i consider that to be kind of an issue.

You have a black man in post civil war georgia in a plantation singing about how great things were to a bunch of white kids. That's problematic cinema in 2020 and questionable theming for a ride.

 

[Mit88]

Horizons was overrated




:runs far, far, far away:

 

[Jiminy76]

In the folklore stories from SotS, Br'er Rabbit is suppose to represent a black slave and Br'er Fox the slave owner.

And the Br-er Rabbit triumphs over the Br'er Fox is that offensive? I personally find it offensive our culture wants us to forget about slavery by erasing all possible images, stories or mention of it. Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it...

 

[Tonyz]

Not Me! I've been on anti-depressants since it closed down in 1999

I've been on Zoloft since they closed The Adventurers Club. I had to up my dosage when Illuminations ended.

Now I think I might just have to institutionalize myself.

 

[JacknSally]

Wait, what's super racist about the Country Bear Jamboree?

I'm not a fan of CBJ and not super familiar with it, so I don't know. You can follow the tweet thread, though, and see the discussions about the specifics.

The tweet I was linking to was the one below it, discussing the origins of the song. The boards just automatically show the 1st post of the thread in addition to the linked response. I'll repost just a screenshot of the tweet that was relevant to the post I was responding to.

and the Hoop Dee Doo? Whats racist abut that?

I imagine it's the depiction of/references to Native Americans.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

I would jsut say that Splash Mountain isn't based on "Song of the South" so much as it is based on the folktales of Br'er Rabbit - the ride incorporates none of the live-action aspects that serve as a framing sequence, nor any of the controversial scenes from the animation. Other than the music it stands alone really.

I'm only partway through reading this thread.
PatF is prob my fave princess movie, and Tiana is my fave princess. I would *love* to see more of her in the parks, and I really hope they put her restaurant somewhere now that Reflexions isn't happening.

That being said, my brother brought up a point. Like you said, the original Br'er stories are folktales. They're based on trickster tales from Africa, and Br'er Rabbit is a folk hero (representing slaves who overcome adversity using their wits). While the Song of the South may have "problematic" elements, supposedly it is the live action parts that are controversial. The ride doesn't feature any of the live action parts (the live action parts are a vehicle for the folktales to be told). The ride focuses on the actual tales of Br'er Rabbit, which originally come from Black storytellers.
As much as I like PatF, the original story is European, recorded by the Brothers Grimm. Is there a better way to change Splash to incorporate stories with Black origins, rather than shoehorn in an IP simply because it features Black characters (forgetting that the story is European)?

 

[Mit88]

Again, why do they have to know the IPs? They can be introduced to them from the rides. For a Disney GMR I would go chronologically and include all of the high points.

Sure, they could be. But we’ve seen many, many times that thats not how Disney operates its parks.

If you want your kids to be introduced to these movies and characters....Disney plus is available now for the low low price of $6.99 a month, or $65 a year

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Again, why do they have to know the IPs? They can be introduced to them from the rides. For a Disney GMR I would go chronologically and include all of the high points.

As a child of the 80s/90s, I absolutely fell in love with Figment (and later Skippy from Alien Encounter pre-show). I had to have all the merch I could get my hands on and I still remember the moment we finally found Skippy in one of the stores in Tomorrowland (before each store carried nearly the same thing).

Imagineers don’t need the IP crutch. They can create characters and stories that children and adults latch onto.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Lol their overlay game is worth questioning, but I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt here that since they’re touching an icon and it’s going to piss off a lot of people, and the fact that it’s going to be a ride that represents a princess of color and is AMERICA’S princess - that they’ll get it right. At least that’s my hope.

they certainly are putting some high end imagineering talent behind it - as long as the budget doesn't get slashed too much (which is possible) I think it will be pretty stellar

 

[JayhawkCruiser]

Horizons was overrated




:runs far, far, far away:

I can one up this - 80% of MK is so horribly dated and almost every attraction and area should be refreshed or replaced. Nostalgia is great and all, but that’s how things eventually die.