Splash mountain refurbishment

[Aluminum Falcon]

This isn't true. Feel free to have your perspective but many kids, and teens, and adults definitely recognize racist elements of this (without having been on it before, watching SotS, or being told about its racist origins. Anecdotes aren't data - so your opinion that no kid gets it is just an opinion (especially since you cannot possibly imagine what's in every kid's head, or their lived experience and whether/how that informs their experience with something).

Ok

 

[ZeeWP]

Just speaking for myself here, I understand why it is wrong and needs to be replaced. Splash will always have a special place with me, it was my favorite ride as a kid, and I have a lot of nostalgic feelings for it, I would just say that no child who has ridden that ride ever came off thinking it was racist, unless someone let them know, it is just pure fun for children. So I think most people who are upset, are upset to see a memory they could keep revisiting, vanish forever.

Not everyone, and maybe not some really young ones. But I recognized the "weirdness" of it when I was in middle school and remembered asking about it. I asked in school and a teacher explained it to me. It was eye-opening for me. I am not a white or black person and had immigrant parents who didn't understand race issues except as it applied to them. So I wonder if I was a young black child if I would have picked up on it a lot earlier...

And I remember feeling dismayed at the change of Tower of Terror in California Adventure, but it lasted for like a day before I adjusted my attitude and learned to love the way the tower looks now. I miss the Mickey Hit but like Hollywood Studios being reframed. I was disturbed initially by the Epcot changes from the future world and world showcase to the neighborhoods, but I am liking all the changes now.

I think we can get over our own nostalgia for new and interesting things ESPECIALLY in the face of racist histories.

 

[ZeeWP]

There are multiple songs featured in the movie and the ride, none of which are racist.

There is enough and the movie as a whole is. As someone who isn't black, I don't feel I can decide how much is enough, tbh, but even just giving my "not-in-my-experience" opinion, It is way too much as a whole.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Thank you! The past cannot be erased no matter how hard anyone wants to try. Even on a personal note, our past is our past, we learn from it and move on to change and not make the same mistakes.

Why do we always use this argument about erasing history. thats not what is happening.

Some history belongs in a history book, not in a theme park. good lord, we need to learn as a country to move forward and stop fighting about stupid things.

 

[BrianL]

There is enough and the movie as a whole is. As someone who isn't black, I don't feel I can decide how much is enough, tbh, but even just giving my "not-in-my-experience" opinion, It is way too much as a whole.

The thing is that stuff like this is complex and isn't the same to everyone. What is "offensive" is in the eye of the beholder, and it varies from person to person. That said, if something is offending ANYBODY, then it should absolutely be reassessed. We can have soemthing that everybody can like and enjoy - well, acually, we can't, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Striving to be better is never a bad thing. I can also still enjoy Splash Mountain for what it is now and will always have fond memories of it - that's for me though and I can't force others to feel that way too.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Thank you! The past cannot be erased no matter how hard anyone wants to try. Even on a personal note, our past is our past, we learn from it and move on to change and not make the same mistakes.

If someone somehow thinks that changing the theme of an amusement park ride is erasing history, then I don't even know what to say.

 

[smeg3030]

I'm fine with the retheming since I feel like Splash is a bit dated. I like how they're incorporating Tiana more into that area.

What did Walt Disney say?
“There's really no secret about our approach. We keep moving forward—opening up new doors and doing new things—because we're curious. And curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Br'er Fox, Rabbit, etc have explicit dialects drawn from a caricatured AAVE. It's really abundantly clear to people who have experience with media portrayal of people who are Black in America (whether it's a media thing like Amos 'n' Andy, or how individuals would grotesquely alter their voice to "imitate" African Americans, etc). For many people - and it's okay if you aren't one of them, but please own your experience instead of universalizing it - the ride (log flume) cannot be separated from the voices and actions that indicate bumbling Black characters as were dominantly displayed in American culture in the early 1900s.

It’s racist to claim that a few characters define a race, and to say that somehow makes some songs racist. It doesn’t.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

There is enough and the movie as a whole is.

There’s nothing racist in any of the songs.

 

[ChipnDale79]

There’s nothing racist in any of the songs.

there you go..you've proclaimed it.

nevermind how others feel.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

I wonder when Dumbo will be rethemed considering the movie features a black bird literally named Jim Crow who speaks jive and is voiced by a white guy. They sing a fun song Song of the Roustabouts while faceless black people sing the lyrics "We slave until we're almost dead , We're happy-hearted roustabouts" and "Keep on working , Stop that shirking , Pull that rope, you hairy ape. " I don't know, that seems at very least equally racist.

Or Peter Pan whose movie featured the lovely song What Made the Red Man Red!! I wonder what culturally sensitive diverse retheme Pan will get.

How about an entire land based off a movie whose central theme is the overused trope white man saves the natives? (Avatar) A bit of a stretch, but it can be construed as offensive.

You are going to be hard pressed to find ANY Disney themed anything that isn't offensive on some level to someone.

 

[umichigan10]

I wonder when Dumbo will be rethemed considering the movie features a black bird literally named Jim Crow who speaks jive and is voiced by a white guy. They sing a fun song Song of the Roustabouts while faceless black people sing the lyrics "We slave until we're almost dead , We're happy-hearted roustabouts" and "Keep on working , Stop that shirking , Pull that rope, you hairy ape. " I don't know, that seems at very least equally racist.

Or Peter Pan whose movie featured the lovely song What Made the Red Man Red!! I wonder what culturally sensitive diverse retheme Pan will get.

How about an entire land based off a movie whose central theme is the overused trope white man saves the natives? (Avatar) A bit of a stretch, but it can be construed as offensive.

You are going to be hard pressed to find ANY Disney themed anything that isn't offensive on some level to someone.

i mean, Peter Pan should 1000% remove the Native American depictions on the ride because they’re the definition of racist caricatures. I’m also pretty sure Disney for both Peter Pan and dumbo on Disney plus has an acknowledgment before the film that it contains “outdated stereotypes or depictions” or something along those lines

 

[OhDannyBoy]

i mean, Peter Pan should 1000% remove the Native American depictions on the ride because they’re the definition of racist caricatures.

Which racist caricatures on Splash Mountain requires a complete retheming of the ride? The rabbit? Most people don't even know (or didn't until the internet pointed it out) what the ride is actually based on in the first place.

I’m also pretty sure Disney for both Peter Pan and dumbo on Disney plus has an acknowledgment before the film that it contains “outdated stereotypes or depictions” or something along those lines

Oh they do, but we are talking about ride themes not streaming movies.

I have zero issue with a ride being rethemed (ok scratch that, I miss Maelstrom) I'm just wonder why one ride is singled out while other are deemed just fine. What's the criteria and level of offensiveness that tips the scale?

 

[BrianL]

I have zero issue with a ride being rethemed (ok scratch that, I miss Maelstrom) I'm just wonder why one ride is singled out while other are deemed just fine. What's the criteria and level of offensiveness that tips the scale?

That's a legitimate question, but the answer is not scientific. It's based on how people feel. Are there other problematic things in other rides? Absolutely. Can they or will they get to them all? Does anyone care about certain ones more than others or at all? That all depends. We shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good though. If they can do this one thing, then great. The other stuff either will be changed or it won't - but it doesn't impact this one thing.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

That's a legitimate question, but there answer is not scientific. It's based on how people feel. Are there other problematic things in other rides? Absolutely. Can they or will they get to them all? Does anyone care about certain ones more than others or at all? That all depends. We shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good though. If they can do this one thing, then great. The other stuff either will be changed or it won't - but it doesn't impact this one thing.

Excellent answer!!

 

[giantsmets]

Thank you! The past cannot be erased no matter how hard anyone wants to try. Even on a personal note, our past is our past, we learn from it and move on to change and not make the same mistakes.

Yeah but why does there have to be racist **** at Disney world? No ones saying erase history, if anything, the movie that the ride is based on erases the true horrors of the history of slavery

 

[umichigan10]

Which racist caricatures on Splash Mountain requires a complete retheming of the ride? The rabbit? Most people don't even know (or didn't until the internet pointed it out) what the ride is actually based on in the first place.


Oh they do, but we are talking about ride themes not streaming movies.

I have zero issue with a ride being rethemed (ok scratch that, I miss Maelstrom) I'm just wonder why one ride is singled out while other are deemed just fine. What's the criteria and level of offensiveness that tips the scale?

It’s more the source material it’s based on being problematic. Like I said previously down thread, it’s wild to me that they ever made a ride around characters from probably the most taboo film in their library (though it wasn’t as locked away when they made the ride, granted). I don’t think Disney “had” to change the ride, but I think they wanted to get ahead of any sort of bad PR going forward, especially with how tensions on race related topics have risen in the last couple of years.

That's a legitimate question, but the answer is not scientific. It's based on how people feel. Are there other problematic things in other rides? Absolutely. Can they or will they get to them all? Does anyone care about certain ones more than others or at all? That all depends. We shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good though. If they can do this one thing, then great. The other stuff either will be changed or it won't - but it doesn't impact this one thing.

I’m interested to see what other things may be modified in coming years. The jungle cruise redo was well done imo, and was the right move. I have a hard time seeing controversial aspects of Peter Pan not being changed. I remember them saying they have a list of things they’re looking to modify for similar reasons going forward and I’d just genuinely be curious what else is on that list

 

[Douglas Dubh]

there you go..you've proclaimed it.

nevermind how others feel.

Is my proclamation less valid than those who proclaimed it racist despite how others feel?

 

[ChipnDale79]

Is my proclamation less valid than those who proclaimed it racist despite how others feel?

Acknowledge that some things may actually offend people. Its a great thing to be accepting of others.

Our history shows that we havent treated people the same, and we should do everything we can to show others that we want to treat them the same.

by proclaiming something isnt racist because you simply dont think it is, doesnt do that. You have no idea how those things effect other people.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Acknowledge that some things may actually offend people. Its a great thing to be accepting of others.

The fact that some people are offended doesn’t make something racist. Can you acknowledge that?