Song of the South

[Soupermom]

What does SOTS mean? I wouldn't think Amazon could/would sell items that were illegal. I'm not trying to debate, just wondering if these are okay to buy...from all angles. Can anyone answer THIS question?

 

[Sarangel]

What does SOTS mean?

It's an abbreviation of the movie title: Song Of The South. There are legitimate DVD copies out there in the NTSC format, released by Disney in Japan in the early days of DVD. They are difficult to find, and (if looking on e-bay) hard to differentiate from the black market copies. But they are out there.

I can't tell you whether or not the Amazon copies are legal. If they're coming from a zShop, Amazon has no control over the copy quality or legality.

Hope this helps,

Sarangel

 

[mikeymars]

Originally posted by Sarangel
There are legitimate DVD copies out there in the NTSC format, released by Disney in Japan in the early days of DVD. They are difficult to find, and (if looking on e-bay) hard to differentiate from the black market copies. But they are out there.

I can't tell you whether or not the Amazon copies are legal. If they're coming from a zShop, Amazon has no control over the copy quality or legality.

Disney has never released SOTS in the DVD format anywhere.

The NTSC format Japan releases mentioned above were not on DVD. What Sarangel is referring to are 1985 and 1990 Japanese laserdisc releases, pictured below (the DVD format wasn't even formalized by the electronics manufacturers until 1995).

There was also another NTSC format Asian market Laserdisc produced in Hong Kong in 1990 (shown below), that specimen being particularly rare and sought after, since it is completely in English, with -- unlike the Japanese releases -- no subtitles whatsoever.

A Laserdisc is not an "early version" of a DVD. Rather, it is a completely different format: Lasedics are the size of a viny LP (12" wide) employ an optical reader and output an analog signal.

DVDs are an entirely different animal, not only smaller in size but employing a completely digital platform. Consequently, Laserdiscs will not play on a DVD player; you need a laserdisc player to view them, and the latter are no longer in production (used working models consequently becoming increasingly scarce and pricey).

So, the correct answer to Soupermom's original question is "no," there are currently no official, "legal" DVD versions of SOTS. Any SOTS DVD being offered anywhere -- eBay, your local swap-meet, even linked from Amazon -- is "black market."

The latter blatant situation (a brand name retailer openly referring people to marketing affliates who are engaing in illegal sales of copyrighted material) is exhibit A of what I discussed before -- the fact Disney appears to be intentionally ignoring the active and growing black market for this particular film.

 

[tink44]

My great-great grandmother was a slave. She was never allowed to marry her "husband". Her five children were taken away from her, probably sold but she was never informed. They were just gone when she came in from working. She was later sold to an American Indian with whom she started another family, that were basically used as field hands, boys and girls. My grandmother and her sisters finally managed to get out of the fields and make sure some of their children received an education.

Very romantic, huh.

I guess when my 90 year old great aunt shares her memories of deep hurt I should tell her that King Triton says she's too sensitive, get over it, we want to watch a movie.

Real nice.

 

[Disney Spaz]

About seven years ago I began trying to collect old Disney movies and Song of the South was one I really wanted to share with my sons, then 5 and 6. At the time I approached a cast member at my local Disney store and she began researching the movie for me. Several weeks later she contacted me to share the she was told that Song of the South would never be released because the NAACP had threatened to boycott Disney if they did release it, due to Uncle Remus portraying slaves as happy. I do not know if this is still the reason but if it is then I would not hold out too much hope of seeing it.

 

[Planogirl]

The horrible events of the past happened and nothing we do now can change that. Keeping a movie from the public certainly won't impact that sad history. I think that this movie should be released in SOME format even if it's only the cartoon. There's bound to be a way to make at least most parties happy. Or am I naive?

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Song of the South would never be released because the NAACP had threatened to boycott Disney if they did release it"***

Let 'em boycott. It won't accomplish anything. What affect did boycotting have on Gay Days ? On the Confederate flag ?

 

[Planecrazy4dis]

I would like to pay homage to two outstanding actors.
May we never forget the individuals behind this controversial picture - trail blazers like Hattie McDaniel (Tempy) who was the FIRST African-American to be nominated and win an Academy Award, Ms. McDaniel was honored as Best Supporting Actress of 1939 for her portrayal of Mammy in Gone With The Wind. Unfortunately, Hattie's career was cut short in 1952 due to breast cancer, but her accomplishments will not be forgotten.

Then came James Baskett (Uncle Remus). He was the FIRST live actor to be hired by Walt Disney. Mr. Baskett also won a special Academy Award for his performance as Uncle Remus in SOTS, thus becoming the FIRST African-American male actor to be awarded an Academy Award. Sadly, in July 1948, he passed away due to heart problems at age 44, but Mr. Baskett is remembered fondly by the Disney animators for his vitality and enormous talent. As an actor, he was a personal favorite of Walt Disney.

Despite being criticized for perpetuating a stereotype these two pioneers triumphed over adversity to prove to the world that they were talented actors. If it wasn't for the hard work of Hattie McDaniel and James Baskett, my favorite actor, Denzel Washington, would not be where he is today.

On a personal note, being bi-racial myself and growing up in two cultures, one of my favorite parts in SOTS is Johnny's (Bobby Driscoll) and Toby's (Glenn Leedy) friendship. I feel their relationship, along with Uncle Remus, truly sums up what Walt Disney was trying to convey. Their friendship transcended racial barriers - and that is ultimately the lesson I appreciate in SOTS.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Planogirl
The horrible events of the past happened and nothing we do now can change that. Keeping a movie from the public certainly won't impact that sad history. I think that this movie should be released in SOME format even if it's only the cartoon. There's bound to be a way to make at least most parties happy. Or am I naive?

The objections to the movie are not because the movie deals with "the horrible events of the past." In fact, it's because of how the movie distorts post Civil War plantation life.

I would like to see Disney release Song of the South as part of the Disney Treasures DVD series -- as I wrote earlier in this thread, "with plenty of historical perspective (regarding conditions during reconstruction and attitudes in 1946) and commentary into both the artistc merit and the troubling portrayal of Black people who are willingly subservient to White people."

Originally posted by Disney Spaz
[Several weeks later she contacted me to share the she was told that] Song of the South would never be released because the NAACP had threatened to boycott Disney if they did release it, due to Uncle Remus portraying slaves as happy.

That's not true. The NAACP never threatened to boycott Disney.

According to http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm , "Although the film has only been released to the home video market in various European and Asian countries, Disney's reluctance to market it in the USA is not a reaction to an alleged threat by the NAACP to boycott Disney products. The NAACP fielded objections to Song of the South when it premiered, but it has no current position on the movie."

As far as "portraying slaves as happy," the Disney movie and the stories by Joel Chandler Harris on which the movie was based are set after the Civil War and the abolition of slavery.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Great post Crazy4dis.

 

[aesalsa]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Great post Crazy4dis.

Ditto .

 

[flyinglizard]

Very interesting thread and some thoughtful insights as well.

mikeymars- I have the SOTS laser like the first picture you posted. However, mine does not have the email address on the cover at the bottom center. I can find no date on the jacket or disc (other than 1946), do you think it is the 1985 version?

Also, my disc does not have ANY bonus material except a few Disney Video Previews at the end. Therefore, the great bonus material you described on the DVD could not have come from the laser version, at least the one I have. Do you know if any bonus material was included on the later laser?

With what little bit I know about video tech, I offer that Disney created the DVD program you have, with all the cool bonus stuff, specifically for that DVD. Lasers have chapters, but not menus like DVD's.

I won't get into the moral questions of the SOTS story line, or the legal issues of the DVD's offered on eBay. I do however, have a problem with people who want to suppress or rewrite history.

 

[Disney Spaz]

I am happy to here that the NAACP has nothing to do with the fact that SOTS has not been released! I was only going on what the cast member told me 7 years ago. But then can somebody explain to me why Disney has chosen not to release a movie that would give them high revenues in a time when they need the revenue. For years there have been fans clamoring for this movie and since just about every other Disney movie has been rereleased what reason would Disney have for not releasing it?

 

[King Triton]

The Song of the South is a great Disney movie and it should be released. It's a classic. It baffles me why sensitive people (like Tink 44) get too sensitive and turn that movie into a racial attack. Tink 44, you can't ban every history book and re-write what happen. Take a chill pill and get over it. Song of the South shows blacks and whites getting along. That's great. Tink 44, would you prefer that Uncle Remus be sad in the movie?? Throw in some sad songs? This is not a serious history lesson movie...it's entertainment. Uncle Remus was awesome and the story was great. You have to stop living in the past. Chill out Tink, get some popcorn and enjoy the movie.

 

[mikeymars]

Originally posted by flyinglizard
Very interesting thread and some thoughtful insights as well.

mikeymars- I have the SOTS laser like the first picture you posted. However, mine does not have the email address on the cover at the bottom center. I can find no date on the jacket or disc (other than 1946), do you think it is the 1985 version?

Lizard, the only difference between the 1985 and 1990 Japanese market laserdics that I'm aware of is in the audio format. The '85 version had analog audio, the '90 was digital. Other than that, the visual material on each was identical. As for the email address, that wasn't on the laserdisc cover, it's from the SOTS fan website I linked the picture from.

Originally posted by flyinglizard
Also, my disc does not have ANY bonus material except a few Disney Video Previews at the end. Therefore, the great bonus material you described on the DVD could not have come from the laser version, at least the one I have. Do you know if any bonus material was included on the later laser?

Lizard, one of the huge mysteries of that DVD is where all those great "extras" came from and who put all the effort into pulling it together. Presumably, some film collector (or collectors) somewhere may have had copies of the original theatrical trailers and TV commercials, and/or the radio interview, or the posters, and the DVD producer(s) tracked it down from them. Or -- more likely -- he/she/they had a relationship with some heavy-duty fan of the film who has a massive private collection of that stuff. From what I've read, none of this material was on any of the laserdiscs or any other formats of the official Disney foreign home video releases.

Originally posted by flyinglizard
With what little bit I know about video tech, I offer that Disney created the DVD program you have, with all the cool bonus stuff, specifically for that DVD. Lasers have chapters, but not menus like DVD's.

Interesting hypothesis, because it presumes Disney has already invested in producing a DVD and is simply holding back for "the right time" to release it. Also suggests production security at Disney is "leaky," e.g. someone working there walked out with a draft copy of the DVD and started letting copies be made.

Originally posted by flyinglizard
I won't get into the moral questions of the SOTS story line, or the legal issues of the DVD's offered on eBay. I do however, have a problem with people who want to suppress or rewrite history.

I haven't gotten into the "moral" tangent of this thread either, because in my experience it's a no-win discussion which I've heard before. The PC types inevitably bring up the term "slavery" within the second or third sentence of their post, and either want the movie to stay buried or released only if a bunch of apologistic, "revisionist history" propaganda material is included on the video. In return, the anti-censorship crowd goes on and on about how they are sick of being blamed for the social/political environment that existed circa 1880, and eventually close that argument in rather insensitive "get-over it" mode.

Bottom line: when it's all said and done, no one ever changes their viewpoint.

 

[airlarry!]

Like I've probably said before when this controversial yet interesting topic comes up, I would like to be able to make the same judgments that certain posters make about the movie and its portrayal of black Americans after (or before, depending upon your perspective) the Civil War.

But since I haven't seen it since it last played on Wonderful World of Disney thirty years ago or so, my memory is kinda foggy.

Sure would be nice to make up my own mind, instead of having some corporate suit make it up for me.

My memory of the movie is a happy one, and a vague memory of an elderly black fellow dispensing wisdom to some young children about a cartoon rabbit.

I hate the fact that to judge this movie for myself I'm going to have to resort one of these days to the underground market. That is no way to support the artist or the company or the industry.

 

[mikeymars]

Originally posted by airlarry!
the movie and its portrayal of black Americans after (or before, depending upon your perspective) the Civil War.

One of the myths/legend tangents that has arisen over time about this film is the supposed vagueness about the period when the story takes place.

Vague? On the surface, perhaps, but not to anyone who is paying attention:

The Uncle Remus character the film is built around was developed in the 1870s by author Joel Chandler Harris, and was set after the Civil War. Harris's first newspaper columns about Uncle Remus actually portray him as one of a number of former slaves who came to Atlanta after the Civil War to find employment. At first, in fact, Remus wasn't a storyteller, but more a cracker-barrel philosopher whose folksy plantation dialect softened some very blunt observations on current politics, customs, and society

At the beginning of the film, Johnny’s father (a newspaperman) makes a little speech as the family rolls down the road to Aunt Tempy’s plantation. In it, it becomes clear he is a writer crusading for “racial tolerance and the New South,” and that he is taking his family to the plantation because his politics wouldn’t leave them safe in Atlanta. Yes, the speech is somewhat obscurely phrased (probably to avoid alienating the Southern audience circa 1946) but it isn’t hard to tell what Johnny's father means and where he is coming from – which is clearly a reconstruction viewpoint.

Late in the story, an upset Uncle Remus decides to leave (not “run away,” LEAVE) the plantation, openly getting onto a wagon that is rolling down the road to Atlanta. Pre-Civil war slaves didn’t just get up and leave.

The girly-looking ”dress-up" outfit Johnny is forced to wear by his mother early on in the film is a ”Little Lord Fortuny” style suit (example below, character on the left), which didn't appear until the mid 1880s.

In response to all this, the textbook "it must be set during the slavery period" argument is rather unsophisticated. Basically, it states that since the African Americans on the plantation speak in classic old-south vernacular, live in cabins on the plantation, sing spirituals and work in the fields, gee, uh, they must be slaves. Anyone with even a basic familiarity of the history of the Reconstruction era would know that many African Americans stayed on the plantations they had previously lived on as slaves, working as sharecroppers and hired hands.

This isn't to imply African Americans in reconstruction weren't still held in second-class citizenship. They were they poor, and Southern states aggressively moved in the late 1860s to limit their rights through the creation of "black codes" and poll taxes.

But were they slaves?

No. In June 1866, Congress passed the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, and it was ratified in 1868. It provided blacks with citizenship and guaranteed that federal and state laws applied equally to blacks and whites.

 

[aesalsa]

Thanks for the history lesson. mikeymars.

 

[Soupermom]

So, does anyone want to suggest where I could get a copy of this movie to play in an American VHS or DVD player?

Also, just curious...why did Disney make a major attraction out of such a controversial film?

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by tink44
I guess when my 90 year old great aunt shares her memories of deep hurt I should tell her that King Triton says she's too sensitive, get over it, we want to watch a movie.

Your great aunt has memories of deep hurt about Song of the South?