Sometimes this really ticks me off!

[okeydokey]

Nice of me to reply a gazillion pages later, but Yup, it's true. Found it out when we hired an ex-con without knowing about it and just got the papers after the fact. They paid us back his entire salary for a year. Lesson learned!

And I used to buy food stamps from people who had more than they needed. Some of them smoked. Guess I'm going to hell with the rest of them. But it lowered my grocery bill when I really needed it lowered and I'd do it again. They had more than they needed and I got part of my groceries at half-price. Also win-win.

I'm not a big fan of the welfare system, but if it is flippin there, why shouldn't I profit? I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of it - and I did, too - I blame the folks who vote for it. If you're giving money away, OF COURSE people will lie and cheat to get it. Duh.

Ah, the two wrongs make a right theology. I think that would be considered welfare fraud and it's illegal.

 

[robinb]

Did you miss the OPs 2nd post about them asking her to lie about their income on the forms?

I did to begin with and admitted to skimming some posts, but someone else pointed it out upthread.

I can only assume that the OP does not lie for the employees so I don't know how that changes anything .

 

[tileman]

I agree, but can we extend this philosophy to corporate welfare too, please? I think that any kind of fraud is wrong, but with what has been in the news lately most our outrage should be directed at big business, IMHO.

Yep I agree 100 %

 

[livie1205]

Welfare should be treated as a response to a temporary emergency.

Not as a permanent way of life.

I have done a lot of HUD (Housing and Urban Development)
and the ones here in Fla that me and my guys have been to about 30 diff places that house about 100 + units

And 75% of the inside of these places are full of big screen tvs Lcd tvs all rent to own furniture very young girls with 2 to 4 baby's.

I have seen it 1st hand.

I am not against helping out families in need but do not make it a way of life.





this is 100% true! There should be a limit....someone should not be able to be on welfare for 15 or 20 years! they should not be able to have brand new suvs!If you can pay 600 + for a car payment ever month you DO NOT need welfare or free housing...

 

[KAMLEM]

And I used to buy food stamps from people who had more than they needed. Some of them smoked. Guess I'm going to hell with the rest of them. But it lowered my grocery bill when I really needed it lowered and I'd do it again. They had more than they needed and I got part of my groceries at half-price. Also win-win.

Win-win for you and the person who got them, lose-lose for all the taxpayers who support you.

I'm not a big fan of the welfare system, but if it is flippin there, why shouldn't I profit? I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of it - and I did, too - I blame the folks who vote for it. If you're giving money away, OF COURSE people will lie and cheat to get it. Duh.

Not everyone will lie and cheat, only immoral and depraved thieves.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Nice of me to reply a gazillion pages later, but Yup, it's true. Found it out when we hired an ex-con without knowing about it and just got the papers after the fact. They paid us back his entire salary for a year. Lesson learned!

And I used to buy food stamps from people who had more than they needed. Some of them smoked. Guess I'm going to hell with the rest of them. But it lowered my grocery bill when I really needed it lowered and I'd do it again. They had more than they needed and I got part of my groceries at half-price. Also win-win.

I'm not a big fan of the welfare system, but if it is flippin there, why shouldn't I profit? I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of it - and I did, too - I blame the folks who vote for it. If you're giving money away, OF COURSE people will lie and cheat to get it. Duh.

This is so offensive and disgusting, more so because you seem so proud of yourself screwing over the rest of us. Another person who knows how to work the system and doesn't give a rats butt about anyone but themselves. I believe this is EXACTLY the type of person OP was writing about, so for all of the bleeding hearts out there, this is what's wrong with the system. Please try to defend this poster and their choices.

 

[mousetravel]

I'll bite. If you can't pay for your kid's lunch and have internet, cable, vacations, etc., you (not you specifically) are just another user. If you don't have time to make lunch, but have time to sit on your butt and Dis all day, you have screwed up priorities.

Some people use the internet at work, instead of having it at home.

 

[bambootinker]

Some people use the internet at work, instead of having it at home.

truuuuue... Not everything applies to everyone.

I have kids that have to have their breakfast at school, because their mommies and daddies choose to spend the family money on wants (make your own list if you don't like mine) and sell their food stamps to people like Coolbeans. Money is spent on huge tv's and internet (I guess for those without jobs like yours), Disney vacations, smokes, movies, video games, etc., instead of say, insurance, food, electricity, water, etc.

 

[livie1205]

truuuuue... Not everything applies to everyone.

I have kids that have to have their breakfast at school, because their mommies and daddies choose to spend the family money on wants (make your own list if you don't like mine) and sell their food stamps to people like Coolbeans. Money is spent on huge tv's and internet (I guess for those without jobs like yours), Disney vacations, smokes, movies, video games, etc., instead of say, insurance, food, electricity, water, etc.

just because kids are eating at school does NOT mean there parents are spending money on other things, my kids sometimes eat breakfast at school because they would rather sleep longer then get up for breakfast lol also some counties have a free breakfast for all kids thing going on...but I agree on alot of that,if you cant pay bills or pay health care,mortgage,rent,food ect you should not be going on pricey trips to wdw.yes I AM going on a pricy trip to wdw why? all our bills are paid ,we have savings and its paid for before we go...


oh also in our county the teachers have most people fill out a free lunch thing at the start of school,the cap here is for a 4 person family is 50,000 a yr we have a family of 5 and can do it but I end up packing lunch.

 

[bambootinker]

just because kids are eating at school does NOT mean there parents are spending money on other things, my kids sometimes eat breakfast at school because they would rather sleep longer then get up for breakfast lol also some counties have a free breakfast for all kids thing going on...but I agree on alot of that,if you cant pay bills or pay health care,mortgage,rent,food ect you should not be going on pricey trips to wdw.yes I AM going on a pricy trip to wdw why? all our bills are paid ,we have savings and its paid for before we go...

I think the concept of "have to have" is big. Although I wouldn't personally have my kids eat the school food, even if free. It gives the impression, imo, that we deserve something we don't.

Have a nice trip.

 

[livie1205]

you are misunderstanding I think...sorry.my kids have a account they can use that I put money in...sometimes they eat school breakfast...our school food is not that bad here...they have chick fil a and subway lol really

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I'm glad there is a system to help those who need it, but there are certainly time when I find myself irritated by what I perceive as abuse.

I still remember when I worked as the demo girl (sample lady) at the grocery store. I was demo-ing some kind of new steak we were carrying when some men walked up to the meat counter beside me and sked if they could buy lobsters with their food stamps. It was something like $30 for two lobsters. I work hard for my paycheck. I don't buy lobster because I can't afford it.

Now, part of me says that if they want to enjoy lobster, they should be able to. But there is definitely another part of me that says honest hard working people cannot afford this, so why should these two boys be paying for it with our tax money? I think it was their very cavalier attitude more than anything that bothered me.

 

["Got Disney"]

Is this a new country?

Funny ....you know what I meant...if you you didn't well than what does that say about you...here I'll help you out Costa Rica

No, that isn't at all what she said. She was making sweeping hateful generalizations about people that came into her work without knowing their stories at all. That. is. wrong.

Nobody likes people that take advantage of the system but you can't tell who they are by how they look. I'm glad Obama promises to give the vast majority of us tax cuts and go after the people that have been using their accountants and tax shelters to pay a fraction of what the rest of us has had to pay for the last eight years. I just heard McCain's newest brilliant plan is to cut the capital gains tax in half. :eyeroll: Yay, more help for the rich people!

But she does have there info...and she is tired of healthy individuals that can work...not.....

I agree that it's tough not to feel resentful when we work our butts off while others take the easy way out.

But I find that counting my blessings help if/when I ever feel that way. By the time I get done with my list of everything I have to be thankful for, somehow that other person's life doesn't look quite so rosy.

WE have been financially blesses but we came from poor families Dh and I and we decided a long time ago that we wanted the American dream and worked our butts off to get there. I got my Masters in Nursing....could have settled with an AA....Dh worked his way up in sales selling locally to know selling tools and equipment to the Military. He could have taken the easy road and settled making $30,000 or less a year.

some people are more driven than others or just want more for thee families. WE moved from NJ to Ca. because that was the place that had most Jobs at the time leaving our family's 3,000 miles away.

DH brother and Sister in law are bums....choose not to work but 2 days a week. They are on the outs of getting evicted...we send them $500 a month to help them. Yet they still dont want to work. We also help take care of his mother (she is a different story)

I had my troubled niece live with us for 2 years up to this summer because my sister who has a 10 acre ranch, is a trained parametric, works only 2 days a week if that, has no health insurance, and uses Planned parenthood and Free clinics to treat her kids. Has investments in Costa Rica gets $800 months from that and food stamps.

WE WANTED MORE FOR OUR FAMILY...so we went in search for it. YES I am tired of the system being abused. As a Labor and delivery nurse I have seen it over and over. Healthy parents come in talking about there vacations and new cars and so on yet on there records shows they are on GOV SUPPORT.....

Lets not forget about assistant housing either. Getting an apt for $65-150 a month. Food stamps and a welfare check...so why bother to work....The system is broken and this kind of help should be temporary till you can go to collage and get a career to get yourself out from under. No used as a means to stay in.

I dont think anyone is against helping those that need the help and want a better life and are willing to do what it takes to get it with a little help ...its the people that dont care and believe because they have 5 kids the GOV should take care of them or people like my sister or brother in law.....

 

["Got Disney"]

Nice of me to reply a gazillion pages later, but Yup, it's true. Found it out when we hired an ex-con without knowing about it and just got the papers after the fact. They paid us back his entire salary for a year. Lesson learned!

And I used to buy food stamps from people who had more than they needed. Some of them smoked. Guess I'm going to hell with the rest of them. But it lowered my grocery bill when I really needed it lowered and I'd do it again. They had more than they needed and I got part of my groceries at half-price. Also win-win.

I'm not a big fan of the welfare system, but if it is flippin there, why shouldn't I profit? I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of it - and I did, too - I blame the folks who vote for it. If you're giving money away, OF COURSE people will lie and cheat to get it. Duh.

No I blame people like you.....that are ruining for the ones that truly need it and use it for awhile to get back on there feet. If we did not get points here I would really tell you how I feel

However the original poster has already said it all....must be nice for you....DUH!

 

["Got Disney"]

double post

 

[barkley]

to those that demand more aggressive fraud investigation-i agree with you, but i would also say that unless those non recipients that activly assist in facilitating fraud are held accountable and cease their practices it is a losing battle.

the active co-conspiritors that i encountered in doing fraud detection and prevention included but are not limited to-

employers who pay cash under the table (or are not fully forthcoming about all wages, reimbursements and benefits thier employees recive),

people who purchase food stamps (or ebt benefits) from recipients,

family who provide free childcare but report they are charging for it ('so she can get that little extra on her check she needs'),

family who provide free or very low cost housing but report they charge much more ('so she can get some extra foodstamps'),

family who pay entire rent or utility bills but deny doing so,

family who put their name on assetts and aquistions to hide true ownership,

doctors who fill out wic forms attesting to medical conditions without evaluating and determining the existence of said conditions,

absent parents who pay cash under the table,

church groups and community organizations that activly educate more recipeints on the loopholes and how to get around rules than they could ever learn by word of mouth,

people who pay their gardener or housekeeper cash under the table ('he/she's on a limited income and supporting a family they don't need the government seeing every penny they make')...


i received complaints of welfare fraud on a regular basis, in some cases it was'nt fraud because the rules ARE poorly written-but in the bulk of them all the complaintant wanted to do was rant 'why are'nt you doing something about this-i KNOW she....', but when it came down to asking them for factual information, or getting them to provide names of the people they 'KNEW' were facilitating it, the universal responce was 'well, i don't feel comfortable providing you with that-i don't want to get personaly involved'


if you see someone you KNOW is a welfare recipient and driving a big new suv, owns a an expensive entertainment set up, wears designer clothes-ask yourself who is facilitating that because they don't have a money tree in the back yard thats funneling cash to them. hold those facilitators every bit as accountable.

 

[C.Ann]

according to the usda website the MAXIMUM family grant is $698 for a family of 5-that is not what a family of 5 receives. on average the monthly allocation is less than $100 per person. food stamps entails one of the most complex budgeting formulas and grants are based not just on household size, but consider income (all sources), housing costs (and free or subsidized reduces benefits), utility costs and a variety of other factors. it would be the rare exception of families of 5 that recived the max grant (i administered the program for over a decade an never encountered a household of 5 receive anywhere near that-generaly it was in the high 200 range).

wic is not just given to all families with children under a certain age-there is a medical requirement that doctors must verify which is submitted along with the income verification.

there is a lifetime limit to how much an adult can receive on "welfare" (cash assistance). subsequent children born into recipeint families are not automaticaly aided (maximum family grants were initiatiated several years ago under the welfare reform act). there are work requirements for all adults in aided households, and there is a school attendance requirement for their children (exceed the number of absences your district permits and see your benefits or that of your parent if it's a younger child get taken away).

you're fortunate to live in an area where there is apparantly a wealth of health professionals willing to take medicaid. it's not the case everywhere. in the region i live in, despite a wealth of medical providers, a medicaid or medicare participant can be on a waiting list for a minimum of 6 months to get one of the highly coveted slots individual doctors who do accept these programs allocate to their practice (the practice i use had a waiting list for 8 months in anticipation of a new doctor they were hiring who would open up a handful of additional slots within the practice for medicare patients-medicaid? even if you are one of the few they have within the practice, if you have a subsequent child you'll be looking for a new doctor because they've reached their cap on how many they will serve).


op-why are the employees asking you for a wage verification? they should have to present their wage stubbs for the past 3 months and in absence of that you would be sent a form that you could either fill out or attach a print out to. by providing these the eligibility staff can get a clear picture of what their real wages are including average overtime and any other compensation they receive.

----------------------------------

Thanks for providing accurate information from someone who has actually administered the program - not heard that "Mary's sister Sarah's uncle's nephews brother-in-law and sister-in-law have been doing/receiving/spending/trading whatever, whatever.."

It's not a pretty life - not an easy life - and not a glamorous life.. I still say the majority of people do not make this their life-long dream and would get off of welfare in a heart beat if the system didn't make it next to impossible TO get off..

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";28178744]


I dont think anyone is against helping those that need the help and want a better life and are willing to do what it takes to get it with a little help ...its the people that dont care and believe because they have 5 kids the GOV should take care of them or people like my sister or brother in law.....[/QUOTE]

I agree with this statement. In all honesty, the way the system works now, some families would be better off staying at home and collecting welfare than trying to make something of themselves.

 

[bambootinker]

you are misunderstanding I think...sorry.my kids have a account they can use that I put money in...sometimes they eat school breakfast...our school food is not that bad here...they have chick fil a and subway lol really

I'm sorry, sometimes I forget to clarify. That part of my statement was just about the whole county/school system receiving free lunches. I like chikfila and subway!

 

[bambootinker]

I agree with this statement. In all honesty, the way the system works now, some families would be better off staying at home and collecting welfare than trying to make something of themselves.

If all that mattered was here and now, then, perhaps. OTOH, if one cares about the long term, they get a job or training, work hard, etc.

The idea that money and "get all you can get" is all it is about is disheartening.