Something that annoys me about WDW....

[Melora]

I also have a problem with abusing the system as they give people who really need it a bad name.

I have had to watch my husband's ex abuse the system with her son since I met him 7 years ago. His ex wife has always insisted that thier son is autistic. Even though I have sat in the psychologists office and heard him tell her this was not the case. She had been told repeatedly that he had a few language issues that could be worked out, suggested some early speech therapy and that he would be fine.

She did not want to hear that and searched until she found a therapist who would classify him as autistic. (There is a long story behind why she was doing this but I wont go into the details.)

As soon as she had "the note" she started taking him to amusement parks and getting "special passes" so none of the family had to wait in line. She would tell me how hard it was for him, being autistic to wait in line. He was 3. Now I am the mother of 6 kids and have never seen a 3 year old all that happy about having to wait in line. I tried to explain that my own 3 year old didnt like to wait, but he would never learn if we didnt try to teach him. She told me that her son couldnt even stand for 5 minutes without throwing an autism induced tantrum.

Well needless to say when we took him to an amusement park without his mother he waited in every line, sometimes for as long as half an hour without complaint.

So fast forward 7 years to present day and I am planning another trip to WDW that includes our 4 and 5 year olds. I was telling my step daughter (who is 13) about a game I liked to play with the kids and how it would keep them busy if we had to wait in lines and she said to me "Why dont you just tell them there is something wrong with Jeffy and you can get a pass so you dont have to wait in line. Thats what we do for Kevin, we dont even have to show people the note anymore"

Well we can just go thank her mother for teaching her such lovely problem solving skills. It just makes my blood boil that she is still using her sons "diability" (hes 10 now and nothing at all wrong with him) to take advantage of a system that is put iin place for people with real issues.

 

[HappyLawyer]

I'm the one who brought up the overweight issue and the ECVs and passes. The only reason I have a problem with folks renting the ECV's and wheelchairs is simply because of "supply." What if a handicapped person needed one and they were all taken???

I did say "most" people are overweight by choice. I know in some cases it is a medical issue or a medicine issue. I hope I didn't offend anyone...just stating my opinion. I guess I have less sympathy than some folks because my husband worked his tail off and lost 67 pounds. I work mine off to stay a "normal" weight...I'm by no means thin...just healthy. It's not easy, but the rewards are well worth it. You can enjoy your time at Disney more....there's an incentive. My Dad died at 52. he was about 100 pounds overweight, smoked and didn't eat right. I think I'm ultra-sensitive to weight. I've made it my personal goal to never let this happen to me.

I think Disney does a great job with the handicapped guests and I'm very happy about that. It's just a shame when people, like my co-worker, abuse a good thing.

And yes, these types of people can be found in both political parties. But the Bush voters do most of the bantering about "the moral choice" - especially this woman. She actually has a "republican room" in her house, Bush is on her screen-saver, and she bad mouths democrats on a daily basis @ work which is totally inappropriate. It just blew me away when her "moral self" came to me and suggested I do such a thing.

PamNC

I would say i have an issue with overweight people using the whellchairs, i am overweight, more then i care to say, i get up and i walk those parks, i am tired but i know that as long as i can walk then a wheelchair is not needed, people should not abuse things because of laziness-this is my thought

 

[bicker]

I would say i have an issue with overweight people using the whellchairs, i am overweight, more then i care to say, i get up and i walk those parks, i am tired but i know that as long as i can walk then a wheelchair is not needed, people should not abuse things because of laziness-this is my thought

Is it really "laziness"? -- or perhaps I should ask, Is it just "laziness"? I think a lot of overweight and obese people would bristle at that characterization. Overweight and obesity do have substantial physiological consequences. While I wouldn't suggest that such conditions mean that those folks would be "unable to patronize" the parks without considerations such as wheelchairs, I don't think "unable to patronize" is the threshold generally applied to these kinds of things. Rather, the issue is whether or not there is a physical condition that "degrades one's ability to enjoy" the parks -- in simpler (but less precise) terms: make it more difficult to enjoy the parks to the same extent as folks without such a condition. The idea behind the considerations offered is to try make up, at least in part, for the lack caused by the physical condition, regardless of any "fault" for the condition.

However, many overweight and obese people do without these considerations. Therefore, and without commenting on whether parks should offer those considerations, it was clear to me that it was better for us to do without them.

There is perhaps no better reason than one's own physical well-being. My wife and I always look at vacations as a time to enjoy ourselves and to reinvent ourselves, starting life-changes that will enhance not necessarily this visit, but all future visits, and our entire life, in general. Most of the psychological research shows that the best time to quit smoking (for example) is when you are out of your standard routine for a week. The same applies to overweight and obesity. These are conditions caused by behaviors, behaviors that can be changed most readily when the things in your life that typically trigger those behaviors (such as the afternoon coffee break) are simply not present (such as when you're on vacation). While most overweight and obese folks are not used to walking the distances involved in visiting WDW, most can manage it as well as we did, without substantial degradation in their experience.

 

[ladysoleil]

As someone who has done the parks both in a wheelchair and out of one, I can say that unfortunately my experience in a wheelchair was far less pleasant than any able-bodied trips.

I managed to wreck my ankle on the last trip and was unable to walk more than a step or two at a time, so we got the wheelchair. It was an eye-opening experience all day how many people were rude to me, would hit into me, walk into the chair, talk to my husband like I wasn't even there or treat me like a piece of lawn furniture. One kid even kicked my wheelchair a couple of times in a line! I had someone shove my chair out of their way when my DH left me for a minute to grab a soda. If the person had said "excuse me" I would have happily wheeled out of their way, even though I wasn't blocking an aisle or pathway in the first place.

However, all the CM's we interacted with were wonderful and saved the trip for us. While we were never allowed to "cut" the line as far as I could tell, we were given fastpasses twice, once for Haunted Mansion and once for Buzz Lightyear. I assume that was because they felt the attraction was too crowded to accommodate wheelchair loading or something similar at that time.

For the record, "line cutting" didn't happen to us. Most of the time we wheeled right on through the regular line with everyone else, or were shunted to a separate line to use elevators, and had to wait in a holding area for the CM to come and bring us to the proper loading area. The *only* time I think we got special treatment was in Epcot the next day when we asked a CM about help with a FastPass for the Maelstrom in Norway (I'd never done FP before) and all the FP's were gone as it was late in the day and the line was huge. We must have looked very disappointed. We thanked her nicely for her assistance and she suddenly smiled and said she thought she could help us, and lo and behold, we were loaded onto a boat about ten minutes later. I think that was probably more about being the lucky recipients of a bit of pixie dust and being in the right place than "abusing" the wheelchair.

Other than that, we waited like everyone else. After the couple of days I spent stuck in that chair, I don't begrudge anybody who needs a little extra help to enjoy the parks, even if it means I might wait an extra few minutes. I assure you that at least from my experience, I felt bad enough about needing the wheelchair and the glares and rudeness didn't make me feel much better about it.

 

[kona-kraft]

WOW, what a HOT topic !!!

IMO, there are so many reasons WHY a person would "legitimately" rent an ECV/wheelchair....I don't have enough fingers and toes to count them on. Why are we even speculating why people do (or do not) rent these things.....their not free--they're rather expensive IMO.

Both my parents now need the use of ECV's when they go to WDW. My mother has degenerative arthritis, and had back surgery last year. She still needs a cane sometimes, so without an ECV...a trip to WDW would be impossible. My dad-he's had three heart procedures in the past two years, so walking is a BIG deal for him, which is why he MUST use an ECV. In fact, both will be at WDW on the 12th-16th so they will be spending $60/day so they can get around the parks. Thank god WDW RENTS these things.

And for me, I'm overweight (hey, I'll ADMIT it), and I have knee problems, but I always try to stick it out w/o having to resort to renting a wheelchair/ECV. But if I needed to, why should it be ANYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS ?!? If I need an ECV or wheelchair when I'm there in September, I'll rent one.....it's my money, my business. If YOU had to rent one, would you want people constantly speculating YOUR needs?

Yes, there are people who go to WDW every day who might abuse it, but are you really gonna pitch a FIT over who gets on the ride first?? YOUR AT WDW FOR GOD'S SAKE !!! I can definately think of much more IMPORTANT things to be concerned about than who's using ECV's and getting on the rides before me.

OK, putting on my flame-retardant suit now......

 

[boston1029]

Kona-kraft - I have to agree with you. We're at WDW! It's unfortunate that this is such a hot topic and has offended so many people. This October we're going down with my parents, sister and her husband and our children. My mom was recently diagnosed with heart disease and had a pacemaker put in. She's overweight(working on it). She gets out of breath easily when walking and we've been talking about renting a wheelchair for times when she feels that she may need it. No special treatment is wanted. She hates the idea of even having to have it with us, let alone use it. But, I'm not going to let her exhaust herself just so she doesn't have to use the chair. She's worried that people will look at her and wonder why she's in a chair. Honestly, it's nobody's business, but the family. That's the way it should be. If you need extra attention or help - GET IT! There are so many good cm's and guests at the park that it shouldn't be so hard. So what if you have to wait for the next car so that a child with special needs can get on a ride first. We're all there for a good time, it's not just up to the cm's to make the trip special. It's up to all of us. Sometimes the best part of a trip is doing something nice for another guest to help them out. Just my two cents.

 

[DrmWvr1299]

I have had 2 surgeries on my foot and cannot walk up and down stairs very well. Last year when my son and I went we would ask the CM's if we could be seated at the top of the steps and all of them said OK and told us to sit in one of the handicapped areas. They also told us that if the spot was needed for an obviously handicapped person that we would have to move. Not all steps are a problem but the ones at Fantasmic, Indiana Jones and the Lion King were a killer and the people behind us were pretty rude at other places when I had to walk one step at a time.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I'm the one who brought up the overweight issue and the ECVs and passes. The only reason I have a problem with folks renting the ECV's and wheelchairs is simply because of "supply." What if a handicapped person needed one and they were all taken???

I did say "most" people are overweight by choice. I know in some cases it is a medical issue or a medicine issue. I hope I didn't offend anyone...just stating my opinion. I guess I have less sympathy than some folks because my husband worked his tail off and lost 67 pounds. I work mine off to stay a "normal" weight...I'm by no means thin...just healthy. It's not easy, but the rewards are well worth it. You can enjoy your time at Disney more....there's an incentive. My Dad died at 52. he was about 100 pounds overweight, smoked and didn't eat right. I think I'm ultra-sensitive to weight. I've made it my personal goal to never let this happen to me.

I think Disney does a great job with the handicapped guests and I'm very happy about that. It's just a shame when people, like my co-worker, abuse a good thing.

And yes, these types of people can be found in both political parties. But the Bush voters do most of the bantering about "the moral choice" - especially this woman. She actually has a "republican room" in her house, Bush is on her screen-saver, and she bad mouths democrats on a daily basis @ work which is totally inappropriate. It just blew me away when her "moral self" came to me and suggested I do such a thing.

PamNC

I was the one who responded heatedly to your quote! I do see your point. I know it is easy to think, oh those overweight people choose to be fat so why should they get special treatment. I think that since something like half (or is it more) of our country is considered overweight almost everyone has some type of experience with this, be it personal or with a family member. From reading your post I see you have your own very real perspective with this issue. But I find that the MOST overweight people, myself included, walk those parks just fine. I keep up with my two active, skinny kids better than my thin DH does! I just know that the pain of being obese in a country that puts so much value on being thin, is so great why get upset and judgemental if somebody rents an ECV? And again its the chicken or the egg syndrome because they may be overweight due to an illness, not ill because of being overweight. Since we can't know, we can't judge. I see your point also about someone who is disabled due to non weight issues maybe not getting a chair or ECV but if they are that disabled, chances are they have their own, since they always need it. As a matter of fact we are going to WDW in January with my fil and he has cancer, diabetes and heart problems and we don't want to chance it so we are renting him a scooter beforehand. I found the name of place that delivers the ECV to your resort over on the disabilities board. If we got to the park and they didn't have one, we would have to leave or wait for someone to return one.

As for the issue of Bush voters thinking they're more moral, I see a lot of soapboxing, holier than though attitudes on both sides. A friend of mine who is a democrat and THINKS she knows how I vote, (I won't discuss it with her so she assumes) told me how shocked she was that I had recycling bins out. After all, only good, environmental democrats recycle. DH and I still laugh about that one! My other Republican friend says she knows whose also a Repbublican because they fly their flags and Democrats won't! Crazy on both misguided counts! I just hate the way politics in this country has divided us to the point its everywhere, even on the disboards!

 

[bicker]

I just hate the way politics in this country has divided us to the point its everywhere, even on the disboards!

It a reflection of our leadership. Leaders that bring people together don't "sell" well on the campaign trail, because of the snarky advertising that their opponents cook-up.

 

[faeflora]

I was the one who responded heatedly to your quote! I do see your point. I know it is easy to think, oh those overweight people choose to be fat so why should they get special treatment. I think that since something like half (or is it more) of our country is considered overweight almost everyone has some type of experience with this, be it personal or with a family member. From reading your post I see you have your own very real perspective with this issue. But I find that the MOST overweight people, myself included, walk those parks just fine. I keep up with my two active, skinny kids better than my thin DH does! I just know that the pain of being obese in a country that puts so much value on being thin, is so great why get upset and judgemental if somebody rents an ECV? And again its the chicken or the egg syndrome because they may be overweight due to an illness, not ill because of being overweight. Since we can't know, we can't judge. I see your point also about someone who is disabled due to non weight issues maybe not getting a chair or ECV but if they are that disabled, chances are they have their own, since they always need it. As a matter of fact we are going to WDW in January with my fil and he has cancer, diabetes and heart problems and we don't want to chance it so we are renting him a scooter beforehand. I found the name of place that delivers the ECV to your resort over on the disabilities board. If we got to the park and they didn't have one, we would have to leave or wait for someone to return one.

As for the issue of Bush voters thinking they're more moral, I see a lot of soapboxing, holier than though attitudes on both sides. A friend of mine who is a democrat and THINKS she knows how I vote, (I won't discuss it with her so she assumes) told me how shocked she was that I had recycling bins out. After all, only good, environmental democrats recycle. DH and I still laugh about that one! My other Republican friend says she knows whose also a Repbublican because they fly their flags and Democrats won't! Crazy on both misguided counts! I just hate the way politics in this country has divided us to the point its everywhere, even on the disboards!

Being a person who not only studies politics (Political Science Major, graduating in 2006) but also works in politics I have to totally agree that current politics in this country is one of division. Sad, because so much more could be accomplished if we all just sat down and talked and left the label of Democrat and Republican outside the discussion. Not gonna happen but it would be a huge improvement. That said, I love working in politics and would not give it up for the world. (I think that makes me just a touch crazy)

 

[bicker]

Is it really required that people discard the labels from the discussion? What I mean is, isn't there a way to reasonable people can disagree, and still work towards a common goal, respecting the opposition enough to recognize that "someplace in between" the two positions is the best place for a resolution to be found?

 

[faeflora]

Most definitely people have the ability to hold onto their chosen party label and still meet an effective compromise on issues that are being presented in society today. Politics, is all about compromise. Recently, I have witnessed (and this is just my personl opinion) that both parties are tending to be more divisionist. I think one reason is that the 2006 election cycle is starting and both parties are trying to appeal to their base. But yes in my heart I am sure that there is good leaders on both sides who can achieve a lot by compromise.

 

[bicker]

So what is needed to make the ability to compromise into an ethic instead of into a liability?

 

[faeflora]

What a great question. I am not sure if I have an answer for it but I'll give it a try. (personal opinion) I have seen a few things happen in during the evolution of politics in my short study and work period. First, I see that some of our elected representatives begin the process of strategizing for their re-election shortly after taking their seat. I also have noticed that the idea of ethics has become a tool in the rhetoric espoused by both parties. I have also noticed that the middle ground on issues is shrinking, again because we are on the heels of election 2006. At the same time the number of people who are independents, not registered as Democrat or Republican is growing.
Compromise is hard when two people are invovled its harder when 100 are involved.
The work that I am currently doing is in making government more ethical. It's been quite a learning experience for me. I think we need to remind our elected leaders that they are suppose to be working for the greater good. I think we need to remind our leadership that they are responsible for their actions and that we the general public will hold them accountable (votes and campaign contributions are great tools for this). Not easy to do, and very ideological but if more people were invovled maybe "compromise" would become an asset not a liability.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now if I could just get my mom to use a ECV or wheelchair to visit the parts I would be all set. (It's never gonna happen but a girl can dream can't she )

You must be much nicer than I. My mother didn't want either b/c of pride. Us grown kids got a talking to a couple of times--but we kept conveying that it was for her to enjoy herself more at the parks b/c it was too hard for her. At 44 she finally relented and has been getting an ECV ever since. (she refuses to use an actual wheelchair!). We actually told her that we would boycott future trips if she didn't rent and she said no problem b/c her hubby said she couldn't go at all if she didn't rent--so she did finally listen.

She just had to understand that it wasn't to make her feel less of a person, but to promote her enjoyment of the parks.

 

[faeflora]

My mom is really funny. We both have the same disability. At 30 I decided "Hey why fight it bring on the wheelchair!!!" My mom, well, we took a family WDW vacation in 2002 during the Christmas holiday and I brought down a very hip looking compact easy to drive zippy cool ECV for my mom to use. On behalf of my DH and I that thought this was a great idea I apologize to the general public that got run over by the zippy cool ECV at the Candlelight Processional in Dec 2002. Since then mom is like "No way am I doing that again". So this year we head back to WDW, me my wheelchair, DH, and my mom (new pink cane in tow). We'll see how she does, believe me I would love to get her into the even zippier cooler ECV but I know my limits.

 

[Talking Hands]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, so I'll get my suit - but does anyone else have a problem with people getting ECV's and wheelchairs AND going to the front of the line because they are overweight...and for no other reason? That's just wrong IMHO. In most cases, you choose to be overweight. Sorry.
PamNC

First of all you do not go to the front of the line just because you are ion a wheelchair. Most lines are mainsteam now so it makes no difference if you are in a wheelchair or not. And in the lines that are not mainstream you often wait LONGER than those in the mainstream line.
Also I know few people who want to be obese. It is not easy for an overweight person to lose weight. So why don't you get off their backs and MYOB. They have enough problems without your attitude.

 

[puggymom]

You see that's the problem with these threads! People get hurt and angry because of the lack of thought and empathy others put in their responses! I am confused, is there some type of pass someone like Donnask8pro can get for her son? Or have all the fat greedy, ECV renters ruined the system for those in need? To Donnask8pro, you should absolutely take your son and for the people who are worried he might get a little special treatment, ask them to trade places!

IN 1998 I went with my friend and her mentally handicapped daughter, her daughter cannot tolerate waiting in lines, she will start to bite herself and scream at the top of her lungs. We went with doctors' letters and got a GAC. the looks we got were unbelievable from CM's and guest. See if she isn't having a fit, at a glance there seems to be nothing wrong with her. THere were a few times, when I was out of ear shot of my friend that I asked people if they would like to switch places, healthy kid or not waiting in line?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My mom is really funny. We both have the same disability. At 30 I decided "Hey why fight it bring on the wheelchair!!!" My mom, well, we took a family WDW vacation in 2002 during the Christmas holiday and I brought down a very hip looking compact easy to drive zippy cool ECV for my mom to use. On behalf of my DH and I that thought this was a great idea I apologize to the general public that got run over by the zippy cool ECV at the Candlelight Processional in Dec 2002. Since then mom is like "No way am I doing that again". So this year we head back to WDW, me my wheelchair, DH, and my mom (new pink cane in tow). We'll see how she does, believe me I would love to get her into the even zippier cooler ECV but I know my limits.

I think my mom would love it if Harley started making ECV's. In her case she was way out numbered by 3 children (and 2 of their spouses), her own husband. Yep--we all threatened a boycott. And when she got that ECV--first time in years we all hung out together all day at WDW.

 

[mamapajama]

My MIL has had an artificial knee for longer than she's been my MIL and alst year got an artificial hip to match! It was only 2 mnths ago that she finally buckled down and rented an ECV. I wondered how on earth she was able to walk around the parks all these years.

My Mom was very overweight for most of my life and never rented anything at WDW. Onour last trip together, she had dropped so much of it that she wore a smaller clothes size than I did but now needed an ECV due to ALS (lou Gherig's Disease) This was in 1997. I really don't remember getting ahead in any lines. most of the time she waited outside for us with the baby. I also don't remember getting any dirty looks. In fact I probably gave her a harder time than anyone because she was running into to garbage cans, etc because, since it was her first time using one-and her last- she didn't really know how to work it! She died the following year.

I think what some on this board are upset about regarding the weight issue is that SOME (not ALL) of those who are overweight are so by choice. I know many people who are perfectly happy being "Pooh" sized and that is there prerogative. They eat whatever they want and don't do a lick of exercise. It is my opinion that those people should not be afforded any special treatment because of their weight if they CHOOSE to be this way. Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I don't have a whole lot of sympathy in this particular situation. It is a choice for some people not a result of illness or meds. I don't want to wait in the sun any more than anyone else does. That being said, there really is no way to determine by sight how or why anyone got to be any particular size and it is really none of my business. So I chalk it up to one of the many things in life I have no control over and deal with it. And I wait a little longer or whatever and enjoy my time in WDW.

Anyone who misuses the system should be ashamed of themselves. It's like when someone uses the "dead relative" excuse to get out of work or school. What would happen if someone really up & died? I just would never jinx myself like that and I'm sure that whether their predicament is by choice or not most would gladly change places with me to be able to wait or walk or whatever without any special help.

This issue is really tricky and I think one can be on both sides of it for different reasons at the same time.

Okay, getting my suit......