Something needs to change with bus transportation at Saratoga Springs because of DTD

[SSRFred]

The bus transportation is slow as it is. Extra time would be needed as the bus driver checks each passenger's card. SSR has five or six stops, too.

Besides that, according to Disney's own information it is not required that you be a resort guest to use the buses, just that you have a park ticket.

I also don't see how paid parking at DTD impedes commerce if validation is available. Commerce at DTD is more impeded by those who use the DTD lots as free parking for the theme parks. Of course it would only stop those who use cars.

Checking the cards would be easy enough, more time yes, but total stop time shouldn't be affected severely (plus there will be less people to check ).

Validation works but it is self limiting. People will stay for as long as it is free. I have a local mall with parking fees that went bankrupt. Many of the shops have closed but the movie theater (that validates) has remained viable. You would think that the restaurants would still do well (Dinner and a Movie...) but the theater only validates enough time sufficiently to see a movie. Most come to see the movie and leave shortly afterward without sitting for dinner. In DtD's case, How much time is enough? 3 hours may not work for Food and AMC. 4 hours might be just enough for AP holders to do rope drop, several rides and come back. The scammers will go to the parks, come back for lunch, cycle the car through the gates, and return to the parks.
As an SSR lover, I've encountered the full buses and the packed parking lot with few patrons at the shops. I want DtD to prosper but I do not want parking restricted. Available parking is important for commerce. Free parking is even better. $14 parking will not work for DtD and validating has some issues. Also, I do not want to pay for more buses because "they are using them".
If Disney is losing revenues, this will be addressed. If it's just an inconvenience to us, it may never change.

 

[SSRFred]

But, again, any multiday park ticket entitles the guest to use the entire WDW transportation system without restriction.

True, but if it had to be gate validated first, the solution could still work.

 

[DebbieB]

I do not believe Disney sees this (use of SSR resort buses to get to DD) as a problem.

Those SSR owners who do, need to make that known to DVC management.

If I were paying SSR dues, I would ask DVC management if the Disney merchants or Disney itself were paying for a portion of the SSR bus service. If not, that would be a problem. Owners should not pay for transportation between the parks and DD unless it is a very minimal phenomenon. Perhaps it really is minimal - we have only anecdotal evidence that it is a problem.

I agree, just like they don't seem to think the parking is a problem at BWV. I complained 10 years ago about it and nothing was ever done. The response from the manager was "that's why we give members free valet". Well, that's no more. They only put an extra guard during Food & Wine, the rest of the year it's open to anyone.

Disney merchants are not going to pay for SSR busses because officially they are not for Downtown Disney. I don't think they put more busses on at SSR because of people using it for Downtown Disney, so there is no additional cost on the bottom line.

 

[TisBit]

Checking the cards would be easy enough, more time yes, but total stop time shouldn't be affected severely (plus they'll be less people to check ).

Validation works but it is self limiting. People will stay for as long as it is free. I have a local mall with parking fees that went bankrupt. Many of the shops have closed but the movie theater (that validates) has remained viable. You would think that the restaurants would still do well (Dinner and a Movie...) but the theater only validates enough time sufficiently to see a movie. Most come to see the movie and leave shortly afterward without sitting for dinner. In DtD's case, How much time is enough? 3 hours may not work for Food and AMC. 4 hours might be just enough for AP holders to do rope drop, several rides and come back. The scammers will go to the parks, come back for lunch, cycle the car through the gates, and return to the parks.
As an SSR lover, I've encountered the full buses and the packed parking lot with few patrons at the shops. I want DtD to prosper but I do not want parking restricted. Available parking is important for commerce. Free parking is even better. $14 parking will not work for DtD and validating has some issues. Also, I do not want to pay for more buses because "they are using them".
If Disney is losing revenues, this will be addressed. If it's just an inconvenience to us, it may never change.

The solution would be 3-4 hours free (without validation) and validation if you spend over say $50 at any combination of DTD merchants. This would easy cover dinner and a movie or La Nouba...giving you up to 8 hours of parking. Anyone exceeding their time limit would pay a flat rate of $14 or whatever theme park parking is. (but I still suspect that most of the bus riders are DTD Hotel guests).

True, but if it had to be gate validated first, the solution could still work.

But that isn't the restriction on the tickets. It is pointless to require someone to go to a theme park before they could use Disney Transportation. Yes, they could restrict use of resort transporation to only resort guests, but Disney has no interest in doing this because they want to promot the resort restaurants, etc.

As for the ones commenting on the delays to get on a bus, trust me it would be much more significant than you think if everyone had to display ID. Most people are not efficient in these processes and it is not just a couple of seconds. You will have people stopped for several minutes looking for the card, trying to hold the bus, saying they forgot it in the room and trying to talk their way on. It will add on average 5-7 minutes per stop during peak times.

As Carol said, we only have anecdotal evidence that this is even occuring regularly and no evidence that it is adversely affecting bus service at SSR. If 5 people are coming from DTD to ride at SSR, but the bus fills at CP before even reaching the Springs....those 5 people aren't the problem, it is not enough busses.

I do pay dues at SSR. I don't care if you ride one of our busses, unless it is happening to such a great extent that it is significantly increasing transportation costs. If a bus coming back is carrying 50 passengers and 20 are going to DTD, it didn't increase costs...those seats were empty to begin with.

Maybe the easiest solution which has been suggested in the past is to fence in SSR and have gates that require key cards to access from DTD area. This will cut down, but not eliminate the problems, because guests will still let people in.

 

[Deb & Bill]

part of the problem is Disney CM and bus drivers - when asked which bus to ride - they say SSR.

even with the sign out saying POR - they were still telling people SSR.

get that to stop - get the excess send to a WDW resort - POR - and there would be less.

my problem is that CM are not being completely honest. Yes SSR is the closest to DD. but certainly not to MK and EPcot...

believe me before SSR - it was OKW - not and repeat not Disney Institute - whiich was next door.

I've seen a large sign as you enter the bus area at Epcot that tells guests to take the SSR bus to get to Epcot. I think I took a photo of it on our last trip. SSR owners need to complain about their dues subsidizing buses for non-resort guests unless Disney is also funding the buses at SSR.

 

[DebbieB]

Just curious - what is the dues cost per point for transporation at SSR? At BWV it's .2986 for 2011. Kind of the same issue - people use boardwalk busses & boats to get to the restaurants and shops at the boardwalk. Plus "free parking" for the parks.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Just curious - what is the dues cost per point for transporation at SSR? At BWV it's .2986 for 2011. Kind of the same issue - people use boardwalk busses & boats to get to the restaurants and shops at the boardwalk. Plus "free parking" for the parks.

The boats provide transportation to the theme parks for all the resorts there, plus they provide transportation between the parks for guests going to both. Not quite the same thing as the SSR buses. Plus the BW is considered a destination and not just a resort.

 

[DebbieB]

The boats provide transportation to the theme parks for all the resorts there, plus they provide transportation between the parks for guests going to both. Not quite the same thing as the SSR buses. Plus the BW is considered a destination and not just a resort.

If BW is a destination, then shouldn't the stores & restaurants pay part of the transportation to get their patrons there? Maybe they are, I don't know. If there are signs at the bus stop saying to use SSR busses to Downtown Disney, then they should also be subsidizing the transportation. I am just wondering the difference in the transportation dues at the various DVC resorts. A member of this board discovered a few years ago that BCV paid much less than BWV. Turns out BCV was not paying for the boats, not sure if that was corrected.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

Let's say for example that on the buses for Saratoga Springs anyone staying there needs to show a valid Key To The World Card to ride on them. What would happen if onsite guests staying at another WDW Resort want to go from the Magic Kingdom to Downtown Disney, would they not be allowed to ride on the Saratoga Springs bus from the Magic Kingdom?

 

[Deb & Bill]

Let's say for example that on the buses for Saratoga Springs anyone staying there needs to show a valid Key To The World Card to ride on them. What would happen if onsite guests staying at another WDW Resort want to go from the Magic Kingdom to Downtown Disney, would they not be allowed to ride on the Saratoga Springs bus from the Magic Kingdom?

They could walk over to the Contemporary and ride that bus to DTD. Or they could go back to their own resort and take the resort bus to DTD.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

They could walk over to the Contemporary and ride that bus to DTD. Or they could go back to their own resort and take the resort bus to DTD.

But the bus from the Contemporary takes a long time because it also stops at the Polynesian and Grand Floridian. Plus for whatever the Downtown Disney buses for the Magic Kingdom are always the worst, at least that's what I have experienced. So that's one reason why people like taking the buses that go to Saratoga Springs when going to Downtown Disney and I am sure you can agree if an onsite guest staying at another WDW Resorts does that they are not doing anything illegal.

Now if the Saratoga Springs buses were made exclusive for guests staying there I think it will set off a bad trend for the other WDW Resorts. Guest staying at the Contemporary, Polynesian, Grand Floridian might want the Resort Monorail and their buses exclusive for them. Plus guests at the Boardwalk, Yacht Club/Beach Club, Swan/Dolphin will want their boats and buses exclusive for them. So people might ask themselves why are they getting special treatment for their buses when others aren't getting the same for transportation from their resorts?

 

[Deb & Bill]

...Now if the Saratoga Springs buses were made exclusive for guests staying there I think it will set off a bad trend for the other WDW Resorts. Guest staying at the Contemporary, Polynesian, Grand Floridian might want the Resort Monorail and their buses exclusive for them. Plus guests at the Boardwalk, Yacht Club/Beach Club, Swan/Dolphin will want their boats and buses exclusive for them. So people might ask themselves why are they getting special treatment for their buses when others aren't getting the same for transportation from their resorts?

Buses at SSR are paid for out of member dues because the resort doesn't have any non-DVC component there.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

Buses at SSR are paid for out of member dues because the resort doesn't have any non-DVC component there.

While that maybe true how many other people who visit WDW actually know that? I mean if they found out that the Saratoga Springs buses were exclusive to those guests staying there you don't think they would be upset about the buses or other forms of transportation not being exclusive to them. Now I know that WDW will never make the Resort Monorail exclusive to guests just staying at the Contemporary/Bay Lake Tower, Polynesian and Grand Floridian, however there have been times when I needed to wait for 2 or 3 Monorails until I finally got on one. Now I am willing to bet that a lot of guests waiting were not staying at the Contemporary/Bay Lake Tower or the other Monorail Resorts, however if they were not allowed to ride it maybe I would get on a lot faster. So it's not just guests are Saratoga Springs that have transportation issues with people not staying there using their buses, despite the fact we don't pay any members fees for use of the Monorail.

 

[SSRFred]

... (but I still suspect that most of the bus riders are DTD Hotel guests).....

If true, it's another reason why parking fees would not work.

But that isn't the restriction on the tickets. It is pointless to require someone to go to a theme park before they could use Disney Transportation. Yes, they could restrict use of resort transporation to only resort guests, but Disney has no interest in doing this because they want to promot the resort restaurants, etc. .....

The restaurant argument is a tough one to accept. ADR's can be very hard to get. Disney is not having trouble filling the restaurants. Plus I don't believe Disney will miss the very small percentage of patrons who take public transportation to DTD, are not going to the parks and are just going to eat at a relatively expensive restaurant.

 

[Chuck S]

The restaurant argument is a tough one to accept. ADR's can be very hard to get. Disney is not having trouble filling the restaurants. Plus I don't believe Disney will miss the very small percentage of patrons who take public transportation to DTD, are not going to the parks and are just going to eat at a relatively expensive restaurant.

They aren't just Disney operated restaurants, most restaurants at DtD are privately operated, and they offer discounts to locals and AP holders via the TiW card. They do want the business.

There isn't really any way to prevent all of it, but charging a parking fee, waived with proper vallidation, would be a good start.

 

[SSRFred]

They aren't just Disney operated restaurants, most restaurants at DtD are privately operated, and they offer discounts to locals and AP holders via the TiW card. They do want the business.

There isn't really any way to prevent all of it, but charging a parking fee, waived with proper vallidation, would be a good start.

I agree with regard to patrons using the parking for the establishments they are going to. I still am against parking charges. What if what I am looking for is not at the World of Disney?, etc. My comment was in the context of patrons using Disney transportation to get to resort restaurants.

Just to clarify what my positions are:
1) If DtD parking is getting filled by people not going to DtD, I would love to see that limited so that others including myself can park there when going to DtD.

2) If SSR buses are being filled by people not going to SSR to the extent that more buses are being charged to SSR owners, that needs to be adjusted.

Big ifs, but it is worth throwing around scenarios.

 

[SSRFred]

Just curious - what is the dues cost per point for transporation at SSR? At BWV it's .2986 for 2011. Kind of the same issue - people use boardwalk busses & boats to get to the restaurants and shops at the boardwalk. Plus "free parking" for the parks.

For 2010, SSR paid .4506 per point where as BWV paid .2796 per point for transportation. I haven't received the SSR notice as of yet.

 

[DebbieB]

For 2010, SSR paid .4506 per point where as BWV paid .2796 per point for transportation. I haven't received the SSR notice as of yet.

Interesting. I guess the fact that BWV's transportation is shared with other resorts keeps the cost down. I wonder what OKW is? They have a similiar setup to SSR.

 

[mkunichi]

Interesting. I guess the fact that BWV's transportation is shared with other resorts keeps the cost down. I wonder what OKW is? They have a similiar setup to SSR.

Is this the "Transportation" line item in "Cost Components"? I just got my OKW Association Board Meeting notice and it has an estimate of $0.5872 per vacation point for 2011 or $4.5MM. Total dues will be $3.3261 per vacation point.

 

[shrpgrl]

I do not agree with charging for parking. I live close to DTD and drive over to enjoy the activities and shopping. I used to go to Citywalk later in the day when they had free parking but since they started charging I have not been back. I refuse to pay to park, even $5, just to shop or eat. I have an annual pass so I do not have to pay when I visit the parks.
I think they should card people when using the busses. It would cut down on some of the cheaters.