Someday I fear health insurance will be a thing of the past.

[JoiseyMom]

I think well already do enough when we provide a free education to people. If you use the education you can get a job and provide for yourself, if you squander you education you have no one to blame but yourself. Government should provide no health care and hospital ERs should be allowed to turn away any one that can't pay.

What free education? I pay over 10k a year in property taxes! The majority of that goes to fund my towns schools!

ANd I disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying. Poor people shouldn't be denied health care because they are poor. Let's get real...not everyone can be rich or make mega bucks. If that were the case, then who would be working the low paying jobs? Should we import them? Let's be realistic.

Poll the disers here and see how many of them are college educated and jobless. I will be the first one to say ME!! I have a BS degree in Computer Science and I can't get a retail job paying minimum wage...so am I squandering my education? THE JOBS AREN"T THERE!! THEY ARE ALL GOING OVERSEAS!!! Where the labor is cheap and corporate doesn't have to pay benefits. Which is going to bite them in the butt when there aren't enough Americans with money to buy their products or services.

 

[Planogirl]

What free education? I pay over 10k a year in property taxes! The majority of that goes to fund my towns schools!

ANd I disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying. Poor people shouldn't be denied health care because they are poor. Let's get real...not everyone can be rich or make mega bucks. If that were the case, then who would be working the low paying jobs? Should we import them? Let's be realistic.

Poll the disers here and see how many of them are college educated and jobless. I will be the first one to say ME!! I have a BS degree in Computer Science and I can't get a retail job paying minimum wage...so am I squandering my education? THE JOBS AREN"T THERE!! THEY ARE ALL GOING OVERSEAS!!! Where the labor is cheap and corporate doesn't have to pay benefits. Which is going to bite them in the butt when there aren't enough Americans with money to buy their products or services.

I have a job thank goodness but I am way underemployed. The statisticians are just starting to notice us.

 

[ilovemk76]

What free education? I pay over 10k a year in property taxes! The majority of that goes to fund my towns schools!

ANd I disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying. Poor people shouldn't be denied health care because they are poor. Let's get real...not everyone can be rich or make mega bucks. If that were the case, then who would be working the low paying jobs? Should we import them? Let's be realistic.

Poll the disers here and see how many of them are college educated and jobless. I will be the first one to say ME!! I have a BS degree in Computer Science and I can't get a retail job paying minimum wage...so am I squandering my education? THE JOBS AREN"T THERE!! THEY ARE ALL GOING OVERSEAS!!! Where the labor is cheap and corporate doesn't have to pay benefits. Which is going to bite them in the butt when there aren't enough Americans with money to buy their products or services.

You were not just laid off but a SAHM for many years. That is what made your college degree useless. Software Engineers are still in short demand in the US. Programmers are not in as much of a demand as SE.

 

[mello]

Yes, I do think that day is coming. We have really good insurance right now, but I'm worried about the not-so-distant future when dh retires and we won't have ins. as part of his retirement. I'm thinking maybe we'd be better off just paying OOP for routine visits and carrying onlly a catastrophic type plan for major illnesses/accidents that require hospital stays. If such a thing will even be available then. My main worry is that we'll be required to carry and pay for a plan that we can't afford. I think health care expenses need fixing, but can't see how requiring people to pay for something we can't afford helps that

 

[JoiseyMom]

I believe that all American Citizen children (0-18) should be covered.
It can be by their parents, or under CHIP, Welfare or Medicare/Medicaid.
But, every single child should be covered.

Adults? Well, that's another issue for me.


But, I'll tell you a story about my neighbor. Mr and Mrs were married for 50+ years. He worked for a large company for all of his life until he retired. She was a SAHM. 1 child only. But, after the child moved away, she was still a housewife. Never worked outside of the home. He paid into Social Security his whole life. She never paid a cent. When he passed away, she started pulling Social Security based off of HIS income.

I don't understand how she NEVER paid a cent in to the system and is getting a monthly check. He paid into Social Security, and pulled it upon his retirement.

I agree with another poster...it was their income. She also worked...longer and harder then he did! He went to a job and worked what, a 40 hour job?? Maybe some OT. When was her time off?? She got before him, made him breakfast, got the child ready for school, then cleaned, cooked shopped and did whatever other things necessary to run the househould that would have fallen apart without her. If you add up all the jobs a SAHM or SAHD does and put a price on it...well lets say they would be rich!! LOL...

And why shouldn't she receive his SS income?? She earned it.

 

[JoiseyMom]

You were not just laid off but a SAHM for many years. That is what made your college degree useless. Software Engineers are still in short demand in the US. Programmers are not in as much of a demand as SE.

That is true, but I am still college educated and have had different jobs and lots of experience over a vast number of jobs, and I am over qualified for most of the lower level jobs, but I still can't one of those either.

My point was that there are thousands of unemployed, highly educated, qualified people in this country that can't find a job.

 

[funnygarcia]

You have provided a nice sad story... you also make it seem that he could work but chooses not to because it makes more sense financially to take welfare than to work... that is probably true... it is also one of the problems with the current system... no one should be better off on welfare than they are if they work....
As for death committees, they exist right now the best example is a transplant list...

Not welfare, it's social security disability. He found that working full time was too much, jeopardizing his health status. Some people do live on dialysis and work full time, the vast majority do not due to fatigue and other symptoms.

I laughed at your idea that a transplant list is a death committee.. perhaps it is in terms of lungs, heart, liver. Without those organs, the clock is ticking for that person. People can and do live on dialysis, despite what TV shows and movies want us to believe.
But the committee (actually UNOS) makes the decision on factors OTHER than how productive the person is in making a wage. Factors such as blood typing, HLA match and anti-bodies, age, weight/body size, support systems in place, ability to follow the medication regimen. Healthier individuals will get more or less points than those who are very ill. If you become too ill, you will not be listed.

If they based it on ability to make a wage, there would be few people receiving a transplant.. considering you would be VERY ill and likely not able to work.
For hospitals, they do look at insurance to decide if they will accept you or not. Thus those who do not qualify for insurance, Medicare, medicaid.. will not be allowed to be listed with UNOS.

And if you have the $$$$ you can go to China and buy an illegal organ. Not recommended, prisoners might not be very healthy when they are executed and "harvested".

 

[funnygarcia]

If you wanted a real impact you would ban all health insurance and government subsidies. The truth is doctors and hospitals charge high rates because they can. If they are forced to charge a price people can afford or have no customers which do you think they will pick. Will a drug company really be able to charge 5,000/month for special medicines when they know that such a price wouldn't be in reach of any customers?

Thank you for posting this, I agree.. I read somewhere..health care costs were affordable (for most people) before the health insurance industry was started. There was charity care available if you could not afford it.

Sadly, I don't believe we could return to those days now.

 

[funnygarcia]

I just had to respond to this, because I teach in a Vocational Technical high school. Vocational Technical education is free. We are producing trained workers who are eligible for health insurance and make darned good wages, to boot. Our kids are Medical Assistants, CNAs, Dental Assistants, Nail Techs, carpenters, HVAC techs, auto mechanics, masons, electrician-apprentices, plumber-apprentices (do you have any IDEA how much plumbers make?!), graphic designers, CADD operators, Early Childhood workers, pastry chefs...my list goes on and on.
These jobs also just happen to make up the highly trained workforce that will be next generation's middle class.

The vo tech programs down here are not free. I think it is great that they are in your state.

That's awesome, I'm not aware of any vocational schools at the high school level in MN. We do have the PSEO program (post secondary options... go to college or vo-tech while in high school, free for the student - funded through the state), but it's not for every student. Limited slots, must provide your own transportation, must attain a certain grade point level, etc..

Smaller and rural schools won't have PSEO as an option as the tech schools would be too far away.
It would be wonderful to have a free technical high school format for every student who wants to enroll.

 

[dhardawa]

What free education? I pay over 10k a year in property taxes! The majority of that goes to fund my towns schools!

ANd I disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying. Poor people shouldn't be denied health care because they are poor. Let's get real...not everyone can be rich or make mega bucks. If that were the case, then who would be working the low paying jobs? Should we import them? Let's be realistic.

Poll the disers here and see how many of them are college educated and jobless. I will be the first one to say ME!! I have a BS degree in Computer Science and I can't get a retail job paying minimum wage...so am I squandering my education? THE JOBS AREN"T THERE!! THEY ARE ALL GOING OVERSEAS!!! Where the labor is cheap and corporate doesn't have to pay benefits. Which is going to bite them in the butt when there aren't enough Americans with money to buy their products or services.

My company has over 100 open full time IT positions right now that we can't fill because we can't find qualified people to do the work. Believe me, the jobs are there.

 

[thomas998]

I didn't think you could get any uglier but you managed to prove me wrong.
Since you do not live on dialysis and obviously have no idea what dialysis entails, you have no right to judge this poster and her husband. Is he living on welfare, NO. He is medically disabled. Something entirely different. This could happen to you or me at anytime and you just never know....
...I know some teachers who are single mothers who fall into a low enough income bracket that their children are covered under Medicaid and who receive WIC. I also know many nursing assistants who work more than one job who receive benefits for themselves and their children.

You do realize that disability payments from SS are welfare don't you? And I never judged him, the poster said her husband could work but that they got more money by his claiming disability - frankly that sounds like fraud to me, but I won't judge.

I will judge the single mothers that can only afford kids if they get welfare, they are a disgrace and should not be teaching any kids as they are setting a poor example of how to be a good citizen. Very sad when someone thinks nothing of someone too stupid to put off kids until they can afford to care for them.

 

[funnygarcia]

You do realize that disability payments from SS are welfare don't you? And I never judged him, the poster said her husband could work but that they got more money by his claiming disability - frankly that sounds like fraud to me, but I won't judge.

And yet you still posted this..

Not that I need to explain myself.. but maybe you should do some reading before you shoot off on things you know nothing about.

BTW it's not fraud, do some reading on how Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI.. not welfare..) works. Renal failure is in the "blue book", it is considered a disabling illness that lessens your quality of life and leads to death.
He attempted to work with his disability.. his attempt failed (too sick to stay employed at a "substantial gainful activity" level - SGA), he was able to return immediately to SSDI benefits due to the "expedited reinstatement" rules .
People on SSDI can continue to get benefits while working. There are income limits before it is considered a counted "trial month". They are allowed 36 months (in a rolling 60 month period) to work and still receive benefits for any month that is below "substantial" level.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10095.html#part5

I think it's sad that new teachers barely make enough to be above poverty levels, but that's not what we are discussing here.

The point was..his insurance through the school district (during his trial months) was not affordable for our family. The point was... because he had private insurance as primary instead of Medicare.. the dialysis center made a hefty profit ($36,000 a month was paid by insurance) and yet WE did all the hands on care at home. Self care should cost less, not more than the crappy center care he previously received. The point was...the spiraling out of pocket medical costs combined with his deteriorating health while employed full time was not worth it. He was sad to leave his classroom, the school was not able to hire a teacher to fill his position. They went through 5 teachers and many subs, never finding a replacement..inner city schools struggle to find quality teachers who are willing to stay despite the hardships and low pay. My husband would have stayed, if he could.

 

[twinboysmom]

You do realize that disability payments from SS are welfare don't you? And I never judged him, the poster said her husband could work but that they got more money by his claiming disability - frankly that sounds like fraud to me, but I won't judge.

I will judge the single mothers that can only afford kids if they get welfare, they are a disgrace and should not be teaching any kids as they are setting a poor example of how to be a good citizen. Very sad when someone thinks nothing of someone to stupid to put of kids until they can afford to care for them.

First and foremost, accidents happen. Some people don't get pregnant on purpose. Others make mistakes in high school and college and get a degree to better themselves. A degree that in many states gives them a job that pays barely more than the poverty level. Others had children while married and ended up having a husband that is worthless and leaves the country to avoid paying child support. So since you are all knowing, what should these women do? Do they drop the kids off at an orphanage and have them placed in foster care? And in your opinion this automatically makes someone a disgrace and a failure as a teacher?

One thing I have learned in all my years of healthcare is that you never know if it is going to be you next. Believe me, people don't plan on having major auto accidents, strokes, heart attacks and other disabilities. And yes, that is what disability is for. My good friend who is a nurse is no longer able to work because she has liver cancer. She worked in healthcare for 25 years and now receives federal disability. Never saw it coming. This could be you or your spouse, or your child. I hope you are never placed in this situation but think how you would feel if someone made the comment about you or your family member as you have made to another on this board.

Funnygarcia, I assume you have heard of karma?

 

[JoiseyMom]

My company has over 100 open full time IT positions right now that we can't fill because we can't find qualified people to do the work. Believe me, the jobs are there.

Not sure where you are, but my DH just spent a few months looking for IT work. He starts tomorrow...and we live in a major metro area. I have applied for 2 IT jobs (that I was qualified for) and recieved a thanks but no thanks email. Even local part time jobs I can't get, for every job they get over 100 applicants, all over qualified and they can pick and choose, same thing for retail.

 

[funnygarcia]

Funnygarcia, I assume you have heard of karma?

Of course, it bites where and when you least expect it.



I seriously have to stop reading here... my family is rolling their eyes and gently reminding me, there are far better ways to spend my time and energy (stop feeding the troll). I'm curious why the mods haven't stepped in and locked this up.. or did the rules change? I had stopped posting on DIS for many months.

 

[thomas998]

First and foremost, accidents happen. Some people don't get pregnant on purpose. Others make mistakes in high school and college and get a degree to better themselves. A degree that in many states gives them a job that pays barely more than the poverty level. Others had children while married and ended up having a husband that is worthless and leaves the country to avoid paying child support. So since you are all knowing, what should these women do? Do they drop the kids off at an orphanage and have them placed in foster care? And in your opinion this automatically makes someone a disgrace and a failure as a teacher?

Sorry but an accident is being struck by a chunk of blue ice from a plane flying over... something completely beyond your control. Getting pregnant isn't an accident unless you were raped in which case it was a crime... otherwise I think most grown-ups know how you get pregnant and how you can keep from getting pregnant so I don't really buy your argument that a single mother is an accident.

As for people no being able to make enough money when they become teachers... well when I was going to college there was no gun held to your head where they said you will get a degree in education or you will get a degree in accounting... people had a choice, though there was a trend of people flunking out of the engineering or orther colleges going to the education college because it was easy... but at any rate, people that get degrees should be smart enough to look at the job prospects that will be available when they get out... unless I'm missing something teaching has never been a lucrative job, only a job with very nice hours and long vacations... I can't feel sorry for someone that decided they want to be in a job that has never paid well and now suddenly act surprised when they find that the job still doesn't pay well... doesn't sound all the smart to me.

And yes, if a woman has a child she can't afford to take care of it would be better for that child to be in another home, orphanage or foster home either one would give the kid a better chance of growing up to be somebody... the reason we have such a sorry society where the welfare class is growing by leaps and bounds is because little John and Jill are raised in a single mother home where they learn from watching mom to become a single parent and get on welfare, or in the boys they learn that a man doesn't isn't supposed to be involved in raising the kids... so a resounding yes, strip the kids from mothers that can't afford to care for them and put them somewhere else.

 

[Colleen27]

And yes, if a woman has a child she can't afford to take care of it would be better for that child to be in another home, orphanage or foster home either one would give the kid a better chance of growing up to be somebody... the reason we have such a sorry society where the welfare class is growing by leaps and bounds is because little John and Jill are raised in a single mother home where they learn from watching mom to become a single parent and get on welfare, or in the boys they learn that a man doesn't isn't supposed to be involved in raising the kids... so a resounding yes, strip the kids from mothers that can't afford to care for them and put them somewhere else.

Have you ever actually looked into any of this, or do you prefer just spouting ideology rather than addressing real world facts? Kids raised in foster care and group homes have higher rates of drug abuse, addiction, incarceration, teen pregnancy, suicide, and basically every negative outcome you can think of. Children do better when raised by a family than by a system. And our "welfare class" isn't growing because of poor single women breeding - families on welfare have fewer kids on average than the population as a whole. It is growing because our workforce is shrinking, and fewer jobs mean more people who can't earn a living.

 

[twinboysmom]

Have you ever actually looked into any of this, or do you prefer just spouting ideology rather than addressing real world facts? Kids raised in foster care and group homes have higher rates of drug abuse, addiction, incarceration, teen pregnancy, suicide, and basically every negative outcome you can think of. Children do better when raised by a family than by a system. And our "welfare class" isn't growing because of poor single women breeding - families on welfare have fewer kids on average than the population as a whole. It is growing because our workforce is shrinking, and fewer jobs mean more people who can't earn a living.

Not to mention how much more of his or her paycheck is "stolen" to pay for foster care. In our state foster children are placed on Medicaid roles and the foster parents receive around $1200 per child. I think I am done feeding the trolls

 

[Planogirl]

My company has over 100 open full time IT positions right now that we can't fill because we can't find qualified people to do the work. Believe me, the jobs are there.

I would assume that those positions require a particular degree or training and don't just take anyone with any degree or background. Specialized job openings are out there but we don't all have what is required. I assume that these openings must be very specialized since so many people who genuinely want to work are having trouble finding decent jobs.

By the way, to some of you - the ignore feature is a wonderful thing. By that, I'm not saying to ignore you dhardawa!

 

[Lucky4me]

Sitting here this morning, I am thankful for the top notch health care in this country, but know something has to change with the way we insure.

dh worked for a large company and paid a portion of the cost of his insurance, while the company paid the rest. Every year he paid a little more and it was starting to get really high right before he got sick.

A few years ago he started limping for no reason.
Once we figured out something wasn't right, he was in the ER and had a brain MRI within an hour of walking in the door.
One day after that, he had brain surgery and a biopsy.
Brain cancer with a six month prognosis.
Went home, got on the computer and found a promising trial for his cancer in NYC.
Got the treatment and three years later, he's still alive if not a little worse for the wear.

Along the way, we had to fight the insurance company to pay for the phase 2 trial instead of standard care. (he would likely not be here right now with standard care)
They finally agreed and settled with the hospital for pennies on the dollar for the million dollar treatment. He has subsequently used up his lifetime max on that old policy. He is now on a combination of Medicare and a new policy from the same company even though he isn't working. The combined premiums are higher than what he was paying before. We know he is now considered high risk and are more than happy to pay. He needs several scans four times a year that cost much more than his yearly premiums.

Even though the insurance company paid, we still had hospital bills from the several months he was in and out of the hospital getting treatment. It was considered out of their service area, so they paid less of the bill than if he had treatment here.
We just sent a check in each month. I recently wrote a letter to the hospital stating I needed to cut the payments down even lower due to the fact my husband could not work. The next bill we received had a zero balance on it.
We are thrilled!

So while I am happy with his treatment and so thankful we live somewhere he could get it so quickly and efficiently, we should have never had to jump through the hoops with the insurance company to get it.
It all seems like a shell game to me. All that worry and stress we went through for nothing. I literally spent hours, equaling months of the past three years on the phone with the insurance companies and the hospital.
I'm not sure if Universal insurance is the answer, I just know what we have now is flawed.