Someday I fear health insurance will be a thing of the past.

[fakereadhed]

I agree care is most definately rationed in this country. Yes they have to take you in the emergency room and treat you but they only treat you to a certain extent. I just went into the emergency room on Monday for a severe tooth abscess. If I would have had insurance I am pretty sure I would have been admitted into the hospital and put on IV fluids as the infection swelled up half of my face. Because I am uninsured I was given a prescription for an antibiotic and pain med. and sent home. I saw the Dr. a total of 5 mins. and before I even left the ER I was given a bill for 800.00 just for the use of the ER not including Dr. fees ect. The billing lady told me that the cheapest that bill will go is to 700.00 and only after I fill out a packet of info. to be sure that I qualify for a discount. Heck if I had dental insurance I would not have needed to go to the ER but because I do not have insurance and dentists do not take you without the up front money or insurance I had no choice. I am still not sure what I am going to do as I need oral surgery and have no money to pay for it. My husband has mostly worked temp. jobs over the last 12 years and if they have insurance it is very expensive and does not cover anything and what it does cover always has expensive co pays making the plan totally worthless.

No, you wouldn't have gotten anything different if you had insurance. As you said, you need dental surgery. They don't do that at the hospital.

I hope the abx do the trick for you and you're feeling better soon.

This is, however, a case of taking chances with your health. If I chose not to pay for routine care and got burned when something went wrong, I would be be kicking myself, not be angry because others wouldn't pay for it.

 

[Eastern]

A good percentage of them can more than afford to charge way less for their services.

And who are you to decide what they can afford to charge? Do you know what they pay for their own expenses such as payroll, office rental, malpractice, etc?

Most doctors cannot make 250k by working 2 days a week. Many work many more hours, for much less pay.

Doctors go to school for years, get advanced training in their specialty, during which time they get minimal pay, work long hours, miss holidays, vacations, and graduations because their patients depend on them, and are responsible for peoples' lives.

What do you think a doctor should earn ? I'm curious!

I am also curious what you say when your auto mechanic charges you $100 an hour to fix your car! I bet you give him a smile and a big thank you for fixing your vehicle!

 

[Eastern]

I agree care is most definately rationed in this country. Yes they have to take you in the emergency room and treat you but they only treat you to a certain extent. I just went into the emergency room on Monday for a severe tooth abscess. If I would have had insurance I am pretty sure I would have been admitted into the hospital and put on IV fluids as the infection swelled up half of my face. Because I am uninsured I was given a prescription for an antibiotic and pain med. and sent home. I saw the Dr. a total of 5 mins. and before I even left the ER I was given a bill for 800.00 just for the use of the ER not including Dr. fees ect. The billing lady told me that the cheapest that bill will go is to 700.00 and only after I fill out a packet of info. to be sure that I qualify for a discount. Heck if I had dental insurance I would not have needed to go to the ER but because I do not have insurance and dentists do not take you without the up front money or insurance I had no choice. I am still not sure what I am going to do as I need oral surgery and have no money to pay for it.
Yes we would have to pay higher taxes for universal healthcare but at least it would not be a for profit business and everyone would be covered. Maybe we would have to wait longer to see a Dr. but at least I would be able to see one and get the proper treatment needed.

So your dentist won't see you without insurance, but the ER will, and now you're mad at the ER for charging you after you have been seen? I don't get this.

 

[Blue Skies]

I do not want single payer (Gov't) health care. What I want is insurance reform. I work for a fortune 500 company and my insurance costs are insane!

Our health is monitored by the company in order to reduce our out of pocket costs (voluntary program right now). I can easily see the day when if we do not meet certain health "goals" (i.e. certain blood pressure, etc..) that we will have to pay more or not be covered at all. I saw on Drudge that a company now will not hire you if you are a smoker.

I wish that you could purchase insurance across state lines. I also wish I could buy only the coverage I want. For example, years ago I had a hysterectomy. I do not want or need coverage for giving birth, etc. States require insurance to cover certain things regardless of whether a particular consumer want that coverage.

 

[twinboysmom]

And it is not only those with insurance paying for the uninsured you left out the part where the federal govt. actually gives hospitals grant money to cover the uninsured. If hospitals did not charge so much for there services health insurance would be more affordable as well. Also if pharm. companies did not charge the hospitals so much for a simple IV bag etc. healthcare would be so much more affordable as well. We need to take the profit out of healthcare. You should not be charged 800.00 just for walking into an ER treatment room. Also you should not be charged the same amount for 2 pills that you would pay for a whole bottle at the pharmacy.

While hospitals do receive some money to cover the uninsured and underinsured, it is such a small amount compared to the actual losses they take from these groups. I am sorry you are upset regarding the cost of your ER visit. First let me comment on your ER experience. When did you provide your insurance information? Did you too provide it before you saw the doctor or after? The reason this is important is that most likely you were asked after you were seen as this is the law. With my experience in the ER, I have never seen a doctor deny a patient admission because they had no insurance. I have seen patients refuse to be admitted but never denied. Wile you believe you needed to be inpatient you likely did not. Dental abscesses are very, very rarely cause for IV antibiotics in an inpatient setting. So why does an ER cost so much? Are you thinking it should be the same cost as your local family practice doc? Operating coats are huge. You are paying for a specialized service and specialized care. A visit to an urgent care for my son this summer cost us $350 and we saw a NP for about 30 seconds. I am sorry that you are in the situation that you are in. Oral surgery is usually done as an outpatient and I sincerely hope you find an oral surgeon that is willing to work with you regarding costs if you do indeed need oral surgery. Hopefully oral antibiotics do the trick. Honestly, I understand your frustration but when you make a decision to not carry insurance, this is the chance you take.

 

[justbishop]

I can't quote the post because it was edited, but i would love for whoever it was who mentioned the loads of non-Americans that would gladly trade their universal coverage for our current system to find these people and direct me to where they are saying this...because everyone I've ever heard from on the subject talks about how grateful they are that they don't have to worry about their healthcare costs (including at least one in this thread)

 

[CdnCarrie]

I can't quote the post because it was edited, but i would love for whoever it was who mentioned the loads of non-Americans that would gladly trade their universal coverage for our current system to find these people and direct me to where they are saying this...because everyone I've ever heard from on the subject talks about how grateful they are that they don't have to worry about their healthcare costs (including at least one in this thread)

Seems like Kevin decided to chicken out and deleted the post.

I don't think either the U.S. or Canadian model of healthcare are perfect.

But it's just annoying when uninformed people like Kevin and MrsPete throw out silly blanket statements like saying only the U.S. does health research or Canadians would love to exchange places with Americans due to their health care.

Nothing is that simplistic.



As for Canadian healthcare I've been very blessed to have a healthy family so have limited experience with it. I do know I phoned to make a doctor's appointment this past Friday and got an appointment on Monday. No wait times.

My husband had to see a specialist last winter and had to wait 2-3 weeks. Perhaps longer than the U.S. but not that insane. It wasn't an urgent situation.

 

[twinboysmom]

To be honest I could ask you and all those that seem to believe that they have a right to use the government to steal money from my pay check to pay for someone elses health, if they are trying to upset me and other hard working people with their continued rants on why it is just to steal hard working peoples' money to support lazy slobs that wont take any personal responsibility for their own live.

You have provided a nice sad story... you also make it seem that he could work but chooses not to because it makes more sense financially to take welfare than to work... that is probably true... it is also one of the problems with the current system... no one should be better off on welfare than they are if they work.... it tells me that welfare is too generous and should be cut so that people have a reason to work not sit back and simply collect a government check (which is really money that someone else working was deprived of).

As for death committees, they exist right now the best example is a transplant list... and if your example of a mother of 4 and a judge were both on the list I would look at who was worth more... if the mother is not working, has no real
skills and no expectation of every working... then it is easy you save the judge at least he is being productive... and yes it sounds cruel, but life is cruel... assume you take your example to an extreme you have a world with
on 20 people 10 mothers with no skills and 10 farmers in their fifties.... you can only save 10 people... you're thinking with the heart theory would only allow the 10 mothers to be saved... and then everyone would starve because you thought with your heart and didn't bother to save anyone that could
produce


I didn't think you could get any uglier but you managed to prove me wrong.
Since you do not live on dialysis and obviously have no idea what dialysis entails, you have no right to judge this poster and her husband. Is he living on welfare, NO. He is medically disabled. Something entirely different. This could happen to you or me at anytime and you just never know.

As for your transplant gibberish, your ignorance is showing because your information is inaccurate.

As for your comments on welfare and laziness, I have no idea what state you reside in but my home state has one of the highest welfare groups in the nation. There is a ton of abuse. While it is frustrating and something does need to be done, not everyone who receives welfare benefits is lazy. Many of our nation's military families receive WIC and/or food stamps. My sister in law was one of these families who received some benefits while her DH served 3 tours in Iraq. Hardly lazy. I know some teachers who are single mothers who fall into a low enough income bracket that their children are covered under Medicaid and who receive WIC. I also know many nursing assistants who work more than one job who receive benefits for themselves and their children.

 

[twinboysmom]

I can't quote the post because it was edited, but i would love for whoever it was who mentioned the loads of non-Americans that would gladly trade their universal coverage for our current system to find these people and direct me to where they are saying this...because everyone I've ever heard from on the subject talks about how grateful they are that they don't have to worry about their healthcare costs (including at least one in this thread)

I can tell you this, my cousin who lives in Ottawa, Canada had to wait 8 months for a CT scan for her new onset migraines. She had the option to have it done sooner but at a significant cost out of pocket. This was early last year btw. My grandmothers sister who still lives on Scotland has been wobbling around on a bad knee because she was denied a replacement because she was too old. That was 20 years ago. Personally, I will keep what we have, flaws and all. I can also tell you that I have treated several patients from Englad that came to the US for treatments, for a variety of reasons. Usually because they had to wait.

Non related, good luck with the financial aspects of the delivery. Hope things work out for you all. And I was going to comment on your dvc question. Hope you don't mind if I do it here. In your situation, I would strictly rent. I think you would come out spending less in the long run. Just a
thought.

 

[phamy76]

I believe that all American Citizen children (0-18) should be covered.
It can be by their parents, or under CHIP, Welfare or Medicare/Medicaid.
But, every single child should be covered.

Adults? Well, that's another issue for me.


But, I'll tell you a story about my neighbor. Mr and Mrs were married for 50+ years. He worked for a large company for all of his life until he retired. She was a SAHM. 1 child only. But, after the child moved away, she was still a housewife. Never worked outside of the home. He paid into Social Security his whole life. She never paid a cent. When he passed away, she started pulling Social Security based off of HIS income.

I don't understand how she NEVER paid a cent in to the system and is getting a monthly check. He paid into Social Security, and pulled it upon his retirement.

 

[Tink-aholic]

My view:
Free education does not mean an EQUAL education. High school education (because that is the only level that is free and available to all students in this country) is not enough to train our future workers. High school education, will not land you a high paying job that offers affordable insurance.

You other post, the one about who is more "productive" and this more worthy of quality medical care.. brings to mind the early years of dialysis treatment. It was a time that hospitals had "death committees", people needing dialysis (very limited availability of machines at the time) had to prove their worth to receive treatment, or face their inevitable death as transplants were still considered experimental.. and unless you had a twin, you likely would reject the organ anyway.
Do you offer treatment to the 28 yr old mother of four young children? or to the 50 yr old judge who has no children? And I'm sure, who could afford the treatment was perhaps one factor.. it was so new, possibly very expensive as it was a time consuming process requiring many nurse and doctor hours to set up, run treatments and tear down.. likely out of reach for most people anyway.
We are so fortunate that now no one has to make those awful choices.. who lives.. who dies..

Don't post anymore, you just encourage people to hate. And that's not okay.

I just had to respond to this, because I teach in a Vocational Technical high school. I don't know how public education got dragged into this, but you are inaccurate with your statement. Vocational Technical education is free. We are producing trained workers who are eligible for health insurance and make darned good wages, to boot. Our kids are Medical Assistants, CNAs, Dental Assistants, Nail Techs, carpenters, HVAC techs, auto mechanics, masons, electrician-apprentices, plumber-apprentices (do you have any IDEA how much plumbers make?!), graphic designers, CADD operators, Early Childhood workers, pastry chefs...my list goes on and on.

Our enrollment has never been higher as forward-thinking parents realize that they can encourage their kids into fields that, for the most part, are recession-proof and unable to be outsourced (and did I mention FREE??). They don't want/can't afford for their kids to have a college degree and only be able to work part time at the drive-through at McDonalds.

These jobs also just happen to make up the highly trained workforce that will be next generation's middle class.

 

[mrsklamc]

I don't understand how she NEVER paid a cent in to the system and is getting a monthly check. He paid into Social Security, and pulled it upon his retirement.

Because "his" income was "their" income. It's a fairly new thing in the history of our society for the wife to get to/have to provide anything to the household in terms of income.

 

[twinboysmom]

I just had to respond to this, because I teach in a Vocational Technical high school. I don't know how public education got dragged into this, but you are inaccurate with your statement. Vocational Technical education is free. We are producing trained workers who are eligible for health insurance and make darned good wages, to boot. Our kids are Medical Assistants, CNAs, Dental Assistants, Nail Techs, carpenters, HVAC techs, auto mechanics, masons, electrician-apprentices, plumber-apprentices (do you have any IDEA how much plumbers make?!), graphic designers, CADD operators, Early Childhood workers, pastry chefs...my list goes on and on.

Our enrollment has never been higher as forward-thinking parents realize that they can encourage their kids into fields that, for the most part, are recession-proof and unable to be outsourced (and did I mention FREE??). They don't want/can't afford for their kids to have a college degree and only be able to work part time at the drive-through at McDonalds

These jobs also just happen to make up the highly trained workforce that will be next generation's middle class.

The vo tech programs down here are not free. I think it is great that they are in your state.

 

[buckirj1]

Getting the insurance and drug industries under government control will allow doctors to do their jobs. The End.

 

[DISNEYSIX]

Because "his" income was "their" income. It's a fairly new thing in the history of our society for the wife to get to/have to provide anything to the household in terms of income.

It is called survivors benefits but it is less than what the survivor would have received which is another way the gov't is screwing us.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I can tell you this, my cousin who lives in Ottawa, Canada had to wait 8 months for a CT scan for her new onset migraines. She had the option to have it done sooner but at a significant cost out of pocket. This was early last year btw. My grandmothers sister who still lives on Scotland has been wobbling around on a bad knee because she was denied a replacement because she was too old. That was 20 years ago. Personally, I will keep what we have, flaws and all. I can also tell you that I have treated several patients from Englad that came to the US for treatments, for a variety of reasons. Usually because they had to wait.

And I've heard lots of horror stories about Americans owing $20,000 and going bankrupt due to medical care.

Like I said neither system is perfect.

Personally, I will keep what we have, flaws and all. I\ve never said our system was perfect. But yours is far from perfect too. And that is what gets the Canadians panties in a wad when ill informed American talk about how awful the Canadian system is. Again not perfect but neither is the U.S.

And when I had my laser eye surgery done (which is not covered by medicare) 99% of the waiting room were Americans as it was so much cheaper up here. In fact the package they sent out was directed at the Americans about which hotels to stay at, etc.

 

[justbishop]

I can tell you this, my cousin who lives in Ottawa, Canada had to wait 8 months for a CT scan for her new onset migraines. She had the option to have it done sooner but at a significant cost out of pocket. This was early last year btw. My grandmothers sister who still lives on Scotland has been wobbling around on a bad knee because she was denied a replacement because she was too old. That was 20 years ago. Personally, I will keep what we have, flaws and all. I can also tell you that I have treated several patients from Englad that came to the US for treatments, for a variety of reasons. Usually because they had to wait.

Non related, good luck with the financial aspects of the delivery. Hope things work out for you all. And I was going to comment on your dvc question. Hope you don't mind if I do it here. In your situation, I would strictly rent. I think you would come out spending less in the long run. Just a
thought.

At least she was able to get a CT scan. If myself or my DH needed one right now, we most likely would not have the cash in hand (or the room in our monthly budget to make payments, at this point) to pay the deductible our insurance would require for it, so we would just go without. And we pay for insurance. I would rather have a slower system (for non-emergency situations, of course) where people are not under the constant pressure of worrying about how much healthcare is going to cost. As for emergency situations, gods forbid I should have appendicitis like my DH did earlier this year. I have no clue how we would come up with another $4-5k. We have very little wiggle room in our budget right now (no putting it on credit cards, because those payments would go up), our credit union has already given us the largest personal loan they allow to anyone (we have excellent credit), and we are a 1 car family (making it extremely difficult for me to get a job that will work with the hours I would be able to make it in). So with our healthcare system, what are we supposed to do if we have an emergency like appendicitis right now?

And thanks for you opinion on the DVC question I posed in that forum. I understand what you're saying, but have to say that the luxury of being able to deal with MS ourselves and not have to put our trust in 3rd parties each trip is a big draw for our desire to buy into the system at some point (we are obviously in no position to do so in the next few years, which I also mentioned in my OP in the DVC forum). Continuous renting would not offer these perks

 

[barbarabini]

In Thomas 998's scenario, I would save the mother. If you didn't you would end up with 4 children being supported by the state. Again, Thomas998 provesto be short-sighted, generally ill-informed and I just wouldn't be suprised if he was the guy who yelled "let him die" at the recent tea party debate.

My god, I would love to know his education level and income.

 

[twinboysmom]

At least she was able to get a CT scan. If myself or my DH needed one right now, we most likely would not have the cash in hand (or the room in our monthly budget to make payments, at this point) to pay the deductible our insurance would require for it, so we would just go without. And we pay for insurance. I would rather have a slower system (for non-emergency situations, of course) where people are not under the constant pressure of worrying about how much healthcare is going to cost. As for emergency situations, gods forbid I should have appendicitis like my DH did earlier this year. I have no clue how we would come up with another $4-5k. We have very little wiggle room in our budget right now (no putting it on credit cards, because those payments would go up), our credit union has already given us the largest personal loan they allow to anyone (we have excellent credit), and we are a 1 car family (making it extremely difficult for me to get a job that will work with the hours I would be able to make it in). So with our healthcare system, what are we supposed to do if we have an
emergency like appendicitis right now?

And thanks for you opinion on the DVC question I posed in that forum. I
understand what you're saying, but have to say that the luxury of being able to deal with MS ourselves and not have to put our trust in 3rd parties each trip is a big draw for our desire to buy into the system at some point (we are obviously in no position to do so in the next few years, which I also mentioned
in my OP in the DVC forum). Continuous renting would not offer these perks

You are obviously intelligent so I am sure you have already thought about this but could DH possibly find a different job with better health care coverage? Whatever policy you have sounds terrible. No idea regarding the feasibility of this but I certainly understand your frustrations.

 

[PatriciaH]

By the way if you do your research you will see that many nations do some amazing medical research. The United States doesn't have a lock on that. Some even say that American healthcare isn't the best in the world including the WHO the last time it decided to rate such things. But who knows?

I'll be in the camp that wants to help everyone have healthcare. I see nothing wrong with those who don't want to be involved opting out but if anything should ever happen where you'd need help...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

We were #37.