Soarin' SB+ test...Fail

[LoriABil]

(Just FYI, the following question is not meant to be snarky, though I'm sure it sounds like it is.) Is 'A' half a question? Like, "Does it matter if [other] people get to ride [so long as I get to?] So many people on this board have such confidence that they'll never be turned away, that they'll never get there too late. I'm telling you, once it's public knowledge that these tickets are the new procedure, those tickets are going to be gone in no time. Standby capacity is ONE-FOURTH of FP's. Soarin' legacy FPs gone before 11am? Try Soarin' SB+ passes gone by 9:15!
I know someone else has already said this, but lines are self-regulating. The longer the lines get, the more "casually-interested" people it will weed out. That is, only the people who have their heart SET on that ride will get in a long line. If you guarantee a 30 minute wait for everyone, so long as they have that ticket, well, suddenly a LOT more people are interested in that ride, even if their interest is relatively mild compared to others'. You could say, "Well, if it were that important to them, they would get there first thing in the morning." Sure. But there are some guests who might only be able to afford 1-2 days at WDW, meaning they might do two parks a day. Oftentimes, guests will save the best (whatever they consider that to be) for last. If that "best thing" for one family is Epcot (specifically Soarin', but the whole park is their favorite, say), and their plan is to start the day at Animal Kingdom, then head to Epcot where they'll spend however long the line is for Soarin' even if it's 3 hours because it's so important to them and they want to finish their once-every-5-year-vacation at their favorite park, it's gonna suck when they get there and are not allowed to ride any of the headliner attractions due to the SB+ tickets being fully distributed hours ago*. I guess the only solution there is to then cut out Animal Kingdom altogether. Well, there goes that park-hopper revenue.

(*Sorry, that was a beast of a sentence...)

As for part B, I don't understand how that would solve anything at all. The number of seats on a ride do not fluctuate no matter how often you distribute those passes. If you do it in chunks, you're just gonna create a mass of people clumping in front of the attraction waiting for the next set of tickets to be distributed. (If I understood your suggestion correctly, anyway...)

This brings up another question - What about those "Casually Interested" folks? What happens when they get their SB+ ticket, and decide they'd rather hang out in Cava del Tequila? One or two folks with a standby ticket might not make a difference, but I wonder what the percentage of people who wouldn't return would be? 10%? 20%? At least with the Legacy FastPass system, people not using their passes didn't keep people from getting in line to experience the ride. But now, that SB+ ticket is an actual seat on the ride. If the standby line is closed, but there are 10% of the SB+ tickets not used…needless disappointment.

Empty seats on Soarin'? I don't think Disney wants that. If SB+ is here to stay, I wonder how long before we use a credit card to reserve our spot? "There will be a $10 fee for cancellations and no shows without 24 hour prior notice."

 

[Planogirl]

Am I missing something here?

Not every single ride will be SB+, they ONLY hand out SB+ ONCE the SB line has filled up in the morning. If Little Mermaid is a 5 min wait all day there will never be a SB+ handout. Same with a large majority of rides.

They are not locking down a ride to SB+ only until it fills up. This is the reason it works out that SB+ tickets are being handed out right away for A+E and Soarin because these rides spike over 30 min waits right at opening.

You haven't seen the posts from those who conjecture that this is movement towards an all reservation ride system? That is mostly what I'm reacting to.

Regardless, I would say that most of the desirable rides increase to 30 minutes and beyond pretty early during busier times such as summer and holidays. If what you say is true then they are likely to start handing out SB+ passes fairly early and they could easily run out for rides such as the mountains and Haunted Mansion and so on. Also, those people who arrive later and can't get into standby as they might have in the past will probably head into queues that aren't shut down yet. This will only end up inflating the wait times for rides that had short wait times traditionally. These are my concerns.

I will give you that a person could show up at rope drop and ride maybe one or two rides right then before those standby lines fill up. People were praising FP+ partially because they didn't need to be in the parks by rope drop though. That seems to be changing.

 

[Planogirl]

This brings up another question - What about those "Casually Interested" folks? What happens when they get their SB+ ticket, and decide they'd rather hang out in Cava del Tequila? One or two folks with a standby ticket might not make a difference, but I wonder what the percentage of people who wouldn't return would be? 10%? 20%? At least with the Legacy FastPass system, people not using their passes didn't keep people from getting in line to experience the ride. But now, that SB+ ticket is an actual seat on the ride. If the standby line is closed, but there are 10% of the SB+ tickets not used…needless disappointment.

Empty seats on Soarin'? I don't think Disney wants that. If SB+ is here to stay, I wonder how long before we use a credit card to reserve our spot? "There will be a $10 fee for cancellations and no shows without 24 hour prior notice."

That's a great point. What will happen to those empty seats if people choose not to show up?

 

[Angel Ariel]

That's a great point. What will happen to those empty seats if people choose not to show up?

I expect the answer from many will be that "of course" they'll just reopen the SB line at some point.

And maybe they will. Problem is that doesn't help all the people that will likely be turned away in the meantime.

 

[clsteve]

This brings up another question - What about those "Casually Interested" folks? What happens when they get their SB+ ticket, and decide they'd rather hang out in Cava del Tequila? One or two folks with a standby ticket might not make a difference, but I wonder what the percentage of people who wouldn't return would be? 10%? 20%? At least with the Legacy FastPass system, people not using their passes didn't keep people from getting in line to experience the ride. But now, that SB+ ticket is an actual seat on the ride. If the standby line is closed, but there are 10% of the SB+ tickets not used…needless disappointment.

Empty seats on Soarin'? I don't think Disney wants that. If SB+ is here to stay, I wonder how long before we use a credit card to reserve our spot? "There will be a $10 fee for cancellations and no shows without 24 hour prior notice."

This is why I think there is more to this than just managing the SB line and what we were talking about earlier in the thread -- It's also about managing the FP+ line:

Not having a 90 to 140 minute SB return time posted also allows them to increase the number of FP+ reservations during the coveted 11am to 5pm period without it being glaringly obvious.

It's also during this period that the FP+ line can snake out into the walkways, whether thats for Soarin', TSMM, Splash, etc., since it seems that a large percentage of guests arrive for their reservation either right at the beginning or right at the end of their slot.

So, if 10% of the SB+ slots don't return to ride, it doesn't matter - first that 10% no-show number is lower because they handed out less to SB+ and more to FP+. Secondly, the FP+ line just moves faster - getting those guests in and out more quickly.
​

So, it's not like the capacity is going un-used, it's just being used more efficiently (in Disney's eyes), with more and happier FP+ guests, and more guests overall out spending money......

 

[DebbieB]

I expect the answer from many will be that "of course" they'll just reopen the SB line at some point. And maybe they will. Problem is that doesn't help all the people that will likely be turned away in the meantime.

I thought I read that the A&E standby line did reopen later in the day, they didn't hand out SB+ for the entire day?

Yesterday around 6:00pm I checked wait times, Soarin was only 45 minutes.

 

[disneyygirrl]

I cannot emphasize enough how great of a resource it is to have fellow Disney lovers discussing a hot topic and offering advice/plans. I'm a die-hard Disney enthusiast, and, while I'm still beyond excited for our upcoming trip (9/7 - 9/14), I must admit that my nerves and anxiety are also at an all time high due to this FP+/SB+ madness. I'm not a *huge* planner, but do like the option of flexibility. I just want to thank everyone for posting and sharing their experiences and/or advice. I'm checking this thread every day for updates and ideas. Thank you to all for your dedication and time!

 

[Angel Ariel]

I thought I read that the A&E standby line did reopen later in the day, they didn't hand out SB+ for the entire day?

Yesterday around 6:00pm I checked wait times, Soarin was only 45 minutes.

It did...so did soarin. My point was that those were short, not well advertised beyond the immediate attraction area tests. It stands to reason that many guests probably didn't even know the test was happening until they got to soarin and were turned away after the sb+ tx were gone. Sb+ tx will likely be gone * much* earlier in the day if/when this becomes standard procedure. Disney didn't advertise that the line reopened, so all of those who were told soarin was closed for the day would have no reason to check back.

Wasn't the soarin test over by yesterday? Or was it still happening? I checked wait times around 4, and soarin was 85 mins, so I think the test was over..(mde didn't list a wait time for soarin when the test was happening)

 

[Laz]

"

Look just my experience and my feelings, As others have said though I really think it is going to end up as all reservations only for everything.

I was just thinking of the possible unintended consequences for Disney of an all reservations for everything system. It is possible that if I reserve everything, I could reduce my time in the parks, and all of WDW for that matter. Instead of a week in WDW, I could spend maybe only 3 days and then spend 3 days at Universal using the Express Pass option. Of course this would depend upon the restrictions put on the reservations. I would not visit WDW unless I could reserve what I want, when I want, and how many times I want. Any other reservation system would be worthless to me.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I was just thinking of the possible unintended consequences for Disney of an all reservations for everything system. It is possible that if I reserve everything, I could reduce my time in the parks, and all of WDW for that matter. Instead of a week in WDW, I could spend maybe only 3 days and then spend 3 days at Universal using the Express Pass option. Of course this would depend upon the restrictions put on the reservations. I would not visit WDW unless I could reserve what I want, when I want, and how many times I want. Any other reservation system would be worthless to me.

You can't do the bolded now, with the limited reservations they already have...especially the "how many times". I don't really see them changing that, even if they went to a 100% reservation system.

 

[mom2rtk]

I cannot emphasize enough how great of a resource it is to have fellow Disney lovers discussing a hot topic and offering advice/plans. I'm a die-hard Disney enthusiast, and, while I'm still beyond excited for our upcoming trip (9/7 - 9/14), I must admit that my nerves and anxiety are also at an all time high due to this FP+/SB+ madness. I'm not a *huge* planner, but do like the option of flexibility. I just want to thank everyone for posting and sharing their experiences and/or advice. I'm checking this thread every day for updates and ideas. Thank you to all for your dedication and time!

Luckily for you, that is one of the truly low crowd weeks left in Disney. Kids are all back in school, and it's too early for most to want to take them out.

Have a great trip and don't worry about this stuff right now.

It did...so did soarin. My point was that those were short, not well advertised beyond the immediate attraction area tests. It stands to reason that many guests probably didn't even know the test was happening until they got to soarin and were turned away after the sb+ tx were gone. Sb+ tx will likely be gone * much* earlier in the day if/when this becomes standard procedure. Disney didn't advertise that the line reopened, so all of those who were told soarin was closed for the day would have no reason to check back.

Wasn't the soarin test over by yesterday? Or was it still happening? I checked wait times around 4, and soarin was 85 mins, so I think the test was over..(mde didn't list a wait time for soarin when the test was happening)

THANK YOU. I'm glad someone else is seeing this as an issue. I don't CARE if the standby line reopened. I have asked anyone reporting their experience here about this very issue. It appears they did not let guests know that the standby line would reopen later at night.

So while it might help SOME guests, the ones who stumble across it, it doesn't help the ones who were turned away earlier. Why WOULD they keep checking back? And honestly, even if they told me there was a chance it might reopen, who wants to keep checking back? I wouldn't be surprised if some of those guests ended up leaving the park in frustration.

Disney wouldn't want that fact well known, or they would end up with a rush of people close to closing and end up paying more manpower to keep the line open until it cleared.

 

[Straughn]

Disney's approach to the whole FP+, SB+, debacle can be summed up in one sentence: If it ain't broke, fix it until it is!

 

[bcrook]

Well...apparently it started today. I think the following comments sum up what happens when you pull this stunt on an actual ride.

It started, and ended, today. They issued cards until they ran out (which was around 5:00). When they ran out and closed the Standby line, not allowing anyone else to ride for the day...it got ugly, and the line was reopened by 5:30. Not sure if the test will continue tomorrow.

From what I heard it is a disaster now as they still have people returning with their cards plus they opened the regular standby line and it currently has a three hour wait.

And then a response...

It got ugly?! What?! You mean people were upset that they were not allowed to wait - in ANY capacity - for one of the most popular attractions in WDW and one of two headline attractions at Epcot?! My goodness, who could have ever predicted such a result? It's not as if any of those guests turned away spent upwards of $100 per person to be there...right? Still, who do these guests think they are, getting upset over being forbidden to ride a ride they paid to have access to?

Hmmmmm....

NO WAY! Curiousier and Curiousier MadHattered.

 

[bcrook]

Disney's approach to the whole FP+, SB+, debacle can be summed up in one sentence: If it ain't broke, fix it until it is!

I can't read anything about this without Muse's Madness playing in my head.

 

[bcrook]

This is why I think there is more to this than just managing the SB line and what we were talking about earlier in the thread -- It's also about managing the FP+ line:

Not having a 90 to 140 minute SB return time posted also allows them to increase the number of FP+ reservations during the coveted 11am to 5pm period without it being glaringly obvious.

It's also during this period that the FP+ line can snake out into the walkways, whether thats for Soarin', TSMM, Splash, etc., since it seems that a large percentage of guests arrive for their reservation either right at the beginning or right at the end of their slot.

So, if 10% of the SB+ slots don't return to ride, it doesn't matter - first that 10% no-show number is lower because they handed out less to SB+ and more to FP+. Secondly, the FP+ line just moves faster - getting those guests in and out more quickly.
​

So, it's not like the capacity is going un-used, it's just being used more efficiently (in Disney's eyes), with more and happier FP+ guests, and more guests overall out spending money......

. More likely than not. They wouldn't have these problems if they had more attractions. Trying to squeeze maximum capacity out of insufficient ride slots causes stress like this.

 

[Laz]

[/b]

You can't do the bolded now, with the limited reservations they already have...especially the "how many times". I don't really see them changing that, even if they went to a 100% reservation system.

True, that is why I will not go. However, I would never rule out a plan where deluxe hotel guest who pay extra can get unlimited reservations. Greed is a powerful motivator.

 

[clsteve]

. More likely than not. They wouldn't have these problems if they had more attractions. Trying to squeeze maximum capacity out if insufficient ride slots causes stress like this.

Yep.

Still re-arranging the deck chairs, and still testing on paying guests without advanced notice.

I'm sure someone soon will be along to say - "but how else are they going to do it...?"

But, if was a test that benefited the guests, they would announce it to the World --- just like they did when they added the 4th FP+ option after using your 1st three reservations.....

(Welcome back, btw )

 

[leebee]

How would they do it, though, if they went to all FP+, all the time? I am not sure they really could, but maybe… Enter your park, enter the date and time you'll be there, enter your attractions in order of priority, enter your meal times, and the computer spits out your FP+ itinerary for the "Poster Family"? Perhaps available at 60 days for onsite, 40 days for AP/DVC, 20 days for the general public? With the money spent on MM+, maybe something like this really IS possible. Of course, they'd have to hold back SOME of the capacity… 10% of headliners, 20% of "B" attractions, 30% of "C" attractions (as defined by mesaboy on his continually upgraded FP+ thread), and maybe a new category of "D" attractions that might have no FP+, or only 50% of capacity assigned to FP+? As it's all MB controlled, if you have a FP+ for an attraction, you wouldn't be able to access said attraction at any time other than your FP+ time, and maybe not at all, to keep it fair. If you don't have a FP+ for something, you could ride it, strictly standby (but controlled by the MB), so you still only get to ride it once.

Some rides for all, not necessarily the ones you might want or at the times you want them, but everyone will get something… socialism, alive and well at DISNEY???

You know, I just looked at what's been going on. This SB+ has been tried at the A&E M&G (inarguably the busiest M&G, Soarin' (probably the busiest attraction), and now reports of doing SB+ for lunch at BOG (for sure the busiest QS restaurant). Are we seeing the trend of the future?

 

[mom2rtk]

How would they do it, though, if they went to all FP+, all the time? I am not sure they really could, but maybe… Enter your park, enter the date and time you'll be there, enter your attractions in order of priority, enter your meal times, and the computer spits out your FP+ itinerary for the "Poster Family"? Perhaps available at 60 days for onsite, 40 days for AP/DVC, 20 days for the general public? With the money spent on MM+, maybe something like this really IS possible. Of course, they'd have to hold back SOME of the capacity… 10% of headliners, 20% of "B" attractions, 30% of "C" attractions (as defined by mesaboy on his continually upgraded FP+ thread), and maybe a new category of "D" attractions that might have no FP+, or only 50% of capacity assigned to FP+? As it's all MB controlled, if you have a FP+ for an attraction, you wouldn't be able to access said attraction at any time other than your FP+ time, and maybe not at all, to keep it fair. If you don't have a FP+ for something, you could ride it, strictly standby (but controlled by the MB), so you still only get to ride it once.

Some rides for all, not necessarily the ones you might want or at the times you want them, but everyone will get something… socialism, alive and well at DISNEY???

I doubt they are going to all FP all the time. I envision them doing something much more subtle like feed even more of the day's capacity into the FP+ system and only open the standby line if it is under 30 minutes. Standby really would be more akin to the standby used on airlines.

 

[FlipHipster]

The FP+ outage yesterday caused me to flashback to last year, dragging the family from appt to appt for ADR's and FP's. The phone app was completely unreliable so I wrote all our appts down on a paper coaster before we left the room each day so we wouldn't have to rely on the app.

I tied catching up on this thread before I went to bed last night. I kept having that dream where I'm late for class and there's a big test but I can't remember where class is or what time it started. In my dream I was constantly trying to find the piece of paper with my schedule on it....