So Iran doesn't have a nuclear program either...

[ford family]

Exactly. Nor it is the time to say, "Let's invade."

Which nobody on this thread has advocated.

ford family

 

[Fitswimmer]

A united front with true economic sanctions may convince the Iranian people and the Mullahs that this madman should not be in power.

It could, and I REALLY hope it does. My hope is that this report convinces people that while they don't have weapons now and no military action is needed-we still need to keep an eye on the situation.

 

[salmoneous]

The policy, goals and broad strategy have not changed in Iraq..

Do we have stated policiess, goals and broad strategy in Iraq? I've heard some generic statements - but nothing concrete and measurable? Certainly nothing that justifies keeping our troops involved in the sectarian fighting there.

 

[salmoneous]

Perhaps the reason Iran doesn't have a nuclear bomb program is because Israel bombed the crap out of it 3 months ago in the bombing mission that no is talking about.

Huh? You sure you aren't confusing issues here?

 

[salmoneous]

Which nobody on this thread has advocated.

ford family

Touche

 

[ford family]

Question is...now that we know that Iran's weapons program is a paper tiger, much like Saddam's, should we continue to rattle those sabers? My concern is that now that the facts are out in the open, might it hurt America's standing with our allies if we continue to, for lack of a better word, "bully" a country that is complying with UN sanctions, and at the same time, elevate Iran's standing as a victim of America's overreaching foreign policy?

That doesn't come across as any shade of grey I recognise. Which of your allies do you think would be upset by a continued "bullying" of Iran? The interest of improving relations with Iran and the wider Islamic world is best served by keeping the UN sanctions in place, by harrassing their weapons suppliers (pour encourager les autres), by increasing dialogue via intermediaries such as Saudi Arabia and by encouraging the Israel/Palestine negotiations.

What doesn't help is jumping up and down saying "sorry Iran, we were wrong all along, we will never doubt you again and we hate our leaders and long for the day when they are gone/impeached/imprisoned and we can all be friends again".

ford family

 

[Cool-Beans]

Huh? You sure you aren't confusing issues here?

I don't think he is. I thought that immediately when people were discussing Iran's lack of a nuclear weapon and how their progress had been impeded. It's because Israel bombs them and stops their progress. There is no other reason.

The bombs that everyone hates so much are what saves lives - not allowing these guys to do whatever they want.

The threat of a bomb has changed their strategy before. They're crazy, but they aren't that crazy. The actual bomb stops them cold.

There is nothing in Iran's history that leads me to believe they have anything but the most most vile and violent motives. Why anyone would take a "wait and see" stance when their words and actions show this hasn't changed and they mean to do great harm to a great many people is something I will never understand.

 

[disneyfan67]

A united front with true economic sanctions may convince the Iranian people and the Mullahs that this madman should not be in power.

As Luv Duke correctly pointed out, it's the Mullahs that are the true power in Iran. Imadinnerjacket is nothing more than a crazy mouth piece and if the Mullahs deem him to be of no use anymore, he will be gone. It's the Mullahs who are the scary ones, IMO, and that's what we all should remember when talking about taking military action against Iran.

There may be a growing number of young moderates in Iran who don't agree with current government and how things are run, but you can guarantee they're not the ones making the decisions. Iran and it's people will will only go as far as the religious fanatics in power, will let them. Until they're purged from power and true moderates who abandon the ways of the religious extremists in charge, nothing will ever change.

 

[Fitswimmer]

What doesn't help is jumping up and down saying "sorry Iran, we were wrong all along, we will never doubt you again and we hate our leaders and long for the day when they are gone/impeached/imprisoned and we can all be friends again".

and who has advocated that, exactly?

Nobody here has said to stop watching them, and nobody has said that economic sanctions or other diplomatic avenues should be abandoned. Nobody here has said that they want Iran left completely alone to do whatever they want.

The only thing that I've read is people being concerned about Bush and Co launching bombs on Iran because they think there are nukes being built there or otherwise cooking up their own "intelligence" again to start another war.

 

[salmoneous]

I don't think he is. I thought that immediately when people were discussing Iran's lack of a nuclear weapon and how their progress had been impeded. It's because Israel bombs them and stops their progress. There is no other reason.

Could you give us a little more detail on this bombing of Iran that Israel conducted?

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

That doesn't come across as any shade of grey I recognise. Which of your allies do you think would be upset by a continued "bullying" of Iran? The interest of improving relations with Iran and the wider Islamic world is best served by keeping the UN sanctions in place, by harrassing their weapons suppliers (pour encourager les autres), by increasing dialogue via intermediaries such as Saudi Arabia and by encouraging the Israel/Palestine negotiations.

What doesn't help is jumping up and down saying "sorry Iran, we were wrong all along, we will never doubt you again and we hate our leaders and long for the day when they are gone/impeached/imprisoned and we can all be friends again".

ford family

Where in the world do you find your quotes? Is there some alternate universe DISboards that I'm unware of where you get these tidbits from the Progressive posters here on the DIS?

Do you think that the quotes from the Administration that Fits posted earlier in the thread, conjuring up talk of WWIII and the like, does anything to raise the diplomatic discussions with any of our allies and put any concerns that they may have with our intentions toward Iran at ease? Especially after the Iraq debacle? I highly doubt it!

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't think he is. I thought that immediately when people were discussing Iran's lack of a nuclear weapon and how their progress had been impeded. It's because Israel bombs them and stops their progress. There is no other reason.

The bombs that everyone hates so much are what saves lives - not allowing these guys to do whatever they want.

The threat of a bomb has changed their strategy before. They're crazy, but they aren't that crazy. The actual bomb stops them cold.

There is nothing in Iran's history that leads me to believe they have anything but the most most vile and violent motives. Why anyone would take a "wait and see" stance when their words and actions show this hasn't changed and they mean to do great harm to a great many people is something I will never understand.

Very well said. They are what they are.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

I don't think he is. I thought that immediately when people were discussing Iran's lack of a nuclear weapon and how their progress had been impeded. It's because Israel bombs them and stops their progress. There is no other reason.

The bombs that everyone hates so much are what saves lives - not allowing these guys to do whatever they want.

The threat of a bomb has changed their strategy before. They're crazy, but they aren't that crazy. The actual bomb stops them cold.

There is nothing in Iran's history that leads me to believe they have anything but the most most vile and violent motives. Why anyone would take a "wait and see" stance when their words and actions show this hasn't changed and they mean to do great harm to a great many people is something I will never understand.

So what exactly should our next move be? A full frontal unprovoked assault on Iran? A few days after our own Intel says that they are of no harm to us? More diplomacy? What?

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

It's Ahmadinejad. I'm going to take a guess that if you don't know his name, you don't know a lot about the guy.

While we don't know enough about the guy to say for 100% sure how stable his is, there isn't any evidence he isn't stable, is there? He may be a bad guy, he may be a hate spewer - but that's the same thing as unstable.

Given the seriousness of the issue, we should act on who his is and what he does say...

I didn't know how to spell it and I didn't want to look it up. Saying there was no Holocaust? Well, I'm gonna go ahead and ? someone's mental stability on that one....

 

[DawnCt1]

Israel actually bombed Syria, not Iran in the last few months, but I believe it sends a "message".

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Horsehockey. Of the millions of Democrats, how many have said "we lost".?

hmmm, just Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have said that...only arguably the two most important Democrats in the party and national leaders of it...but who's counting?

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Israel actually bombed Syria, not Iran in the last few months, but I believe it sends a "message".

I think that after salmoneous pointed it out, we all pretty much figured that out. I took Charade at his word on the Iran bombing when I replied to his post. I had never heard of a recent untalked about attack on Iran, and assumed I must not have read the paper that day.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

and who has advocated that, exactly?

Nobody here has said to stop watching them, and nobody has said that economic sanctions or other diplomatic avenues should be abandoned. Nobody here has said that they want Iran left completely alone to do whatever they want.

The only thing that I've read is people being concerned about Bush and Co launching bombs on Iran because they think there are nukes being built there or otherwise cooking up their own "intelligence" again to start another war.

Ford family seems to have perfected the art of the straw man argument. It's exhausting at best...

 

[Fitswimmer]

hmmm, just Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have said that...only arguably the two most important Democrats in the party and national leaders of it...but who's counting?

I don't apply the words of GW Bush to every Republican that I meet because I know that they don't all agree with everything he says.

Personally, I don't agree with Reid and Pelosi's use of the word "Lost", mostly because you can't consider a war "lost" or "won" until you have clearly defined and measureable goals. "until the job is done" is NOT a clearly defined or measurable goal. "until the Iraqi government is ready for us to leave" is not a defined goal-why would they want us to leave? We're doing all the work keeping them secure!!

 

[salmoneous]

hmmm, just Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi? Really? Could you show me the quote?

Thanks,
Sal