So I was watching A Baby Story........

[robinb]

It's when one crosses the line and piously criticizes another woman's choice, calling it "sad," that person becomes a nazi.

Right ... but by calling them "nazis" you are being just as judgmental and myopic as they are.

I think there are a few women who are over the top with their decision to have a natural birth, to the extent that it puts the baby in danger.

Yes, I think you are right. Babies are put in danger by women who insist on continuing a natural birth when an epidural or c-section would be best.

On the other hand, I believe there are a few women out there who don't research their options. I think the majority are in the middle.

I'm sure you're right about educated women . I'm not saying that women who choose a medicated birth don't research their choice, but those who choose a natural birth need to because they are going against the status quo.

Speaking of status quo, just look at A Baby Story to see what Kaiser does on a day-to-day basis. I used to get so mad when the pitocin would start flowing in the first 15 minutes of the show followed by the inevitable request for a epidural because the contractions hurt. Well duh ... your contractions are much worse than if the stupid doctors had just left you alone! But inducing labor is one of those standard operating practices and who cares if the contractions hurt more because you're not going to feel a thing soon enough .

 

[contemporarymom]

I have not read the posts after this, but I just have to respond to THIS one.

Look, bumber, we GET IT that you are against mainstream medicine. And you can have your herbs and spices and alternative treatment and "adjustments" all you want.

But putting down other women's health care choices is not helpful.

Whether it is breast or bottle feeding, cloth or disposable diapers, stay-at-home moms or daycare, epidurals or not, we are all mothers who are trying hard to do our best.

And what is best for YOU may not be the best for everyone else.

And you have no right to make anyone feel bad for the decisions they make that they feel is in their best interest.

THANK YOU! You posted before I had a chance to. I am sick to death of Bumber's ridiculous posts regarding the medical profession and other topics. My biggest fear is that someone may actually take her seriously and wind up dead. She is NOT a medical professional, though she "claims" to have chiropratic experience.

Everyone has the right to choose how they want to deal with child birth, medical issues and child rearing without having to hear continual, non-factual horror stories. Just once I would like to see Bumber post with some mainstream factual backup. My guess is that's never going to happen.

 

[MommaMouse411]

WHAT? I missed that baby story!! I don't think my feet can even go over my head??????????????????

 

[Mouse House Mama]

WHAT? I missed that baby story!! I don't think my feet can even go over my head??????????????????

You'd be surprised what the pain of childbirth can make you do.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

And have you honestly ever heard a woman say that another woman was POISONING her baby with formula??? Disagreeing with someone, and/or pointing out that breast milk is in most cases considered the best food for babies does not equal saying that formula is poison.

Sadly, yeah, I have heard that... many times. OMG when I was trying desparately to BF my DD, some women were making me feel horrible about giving DD formula. I felt like the worst mother on earth. DD is now a happy healthy 2 year old

I desparately wanted a midwife-assisted natural birth with DD, and because of a placenta previa, I couldn't have it. I'm determined to do it naturally this way... not because I believe it's "right" or "better," it's just how I want it. Now if it'll happen that way, it's anyone's guess. It's a miracle we give birth at all... no matter how we do it. Just not laying down!! That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[mjkacmom]

Sadly, yeah, I have heard that... many times. OMG when I was trying desparately to BF my DD, some women were making me feel horrible about giving DD formula. I felt like the worst mother on earth. DD is now a happy healthy 2 year old

.

http://www.home-schooling-uk.com/article/6090/infant-formula-is-poison-breast-is-best

Nice!

 

[MaumeeMom]

I´ve had 2 waterbirths and loved them! Best thing ever. If you ever can have a waterbirth I highly recommend it.
Last waterbirth, 2 years ago, DH was in the tub with me and we delivered DS together, while the midwife watched

Well in my experience a lot of stuff comes out when pushing. I don't want to sit in that at all. Also, I deliver everything really fast so I would never have a chance to get out of the tub.
I could just see my DH's face if I asked him to get in that tub with me.

He loves us but everyone has their limits. I will admit though ickyness aside, I wonder if it is less painful. I know people like yourself swear by it and it must work for some but I think you have to be of a certain mindset to do it. Also, not all the hospitals here offer that.

I agree, ick, I couldn't do it and I definitely would not want my DH in there with me BUT to each his own. I'm not going to tell someone else that their way is wrong.

I'm glad that there are so many options out there now and I hope that each mom-to-be does some research and heart searching to figure out what they want to do but also know that complications can change any birth plan at the drop of a hat.

It really is too bad that there is such a divide - wouldn't it be great if women could embrace all options and not be ridiculed for their choices?

My best advice is to find a doc that you trust and that you can talk to about your plan and your fears. Having a good doc that you trust can really help you emotionally and mentally.

Good luck to all the moms-to-be here; I hope all goes well for each and every one of you no matter which path you plan to take.

 

[mrsv98]

Not everyone has the option of having their birth go as planned. People need to calm down and stop being so judgmental.

I have no doubt had I been alive 100 years ago both me and my son would have died in childbirth so I have no problem with modern medicine. For me I didn't have the epidural until 16 hours of labour where I was passing out between contractions, so my perception of the situation was 100% pain 100% of the time...there is no mental prep for that for hours on end. In the end when my son finally needed to get out NOW that epidural made it so they got in there within five minutes. I have no doubt it saved his life. If anything they should have stepped in hours earlier.

And before you say "Oh but the epidural could have raised the chance of him becoming a c-section" don't. I didn't progress in the 16 hours before the epidural, he wasn't going to fit. I wasn't classified a high risk labour although my son is third gen c-section. Natural labour is wonderful, but if you ever get a chance to go a 19th century grave yard the number of young dead women is shocking. There are risks either way, but I'll take my chances with the 21st century methods.

ITA, I was right there with you, 100 years ago DD and would have both died. She was as wrong way around as a baby could be, head up, facing out with a foot along both sides of her head. Add to that a giant noggin and you can see it wasn't a pretty picture! I had a spinal block and a c-section and will be forever grateful that I had that option.

What really bothers me is when women start making snide comments to each other or purporting to know the "best" way to have a baby. To me the best way is when mom and baby are both intact and healthy, doesn't really matter how they got that way.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

ITA, I was right there with you, 100 years ago DD and would have both died. She was as wrong way around as a baby could be, head up, facing out with a foot along both sides of her head. Add to that a giant noggin and you can see it wasn't a pretty picture! I had a spinal block and a c-section and will be forever grateful that I had that option.

What really bothers me is when women start making snide comments to each other or purporting to know the "best" way to have a baby. To me ay.the best way is when mom and baby are both intact and healthy, doesn't really matter how they got that w

Amen!

 

[SaraJayne]

You are not alone.



Go visit the ICAN boards. See how many people thought their hired help would pay any attention to their birth plans. See how many people got HOSTILE hired help who went directly against their plans, just because.

It's good that your hired help went along with it. Not all do. Not even midwives.

Excuse me, did you just call the doctors/nurses/midwives who helped you deliver a beautiful baby HIRED HELP????

How completely disrespectful, condescending and dismissive of what their jobs truly entail. I don't know whether to be digusted or laugh out of sheer disbelief.

Without the wonderful doctors and nurses at one of my deliveries, I wouldn't be here. So you can bet your bippy I'm thankful every single day to the "hired help" for saving both mine and my babies life.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I saw a movie the other night and a line stuck with me: "The hardest part of being a woman is having women friends". My goodness, we women can be quite hard and judgemental with each other.

I've never heard men criticize how they parent their children but I sure hear women do that to each other all the time. Because criticizing decisons women make about how they give birth is doing just that.

This is an interesting thread and I do agree, it seems insane to push something that weighs up to 8 or 9 pounds (or more God help them) out of your body when you are in a position that is the opposite of getting that done. Never made sense to me before I had my son and while I was having him it made even less sense!

But as usual with these threads, we women have to preach, beat up, quote, and get huffy with each other. Its too bad. We are all women, most of us seem to have given birth at one time or another and for some of us like me, it was quite a few years ago. Yet its still a hot button topic.

I see somebody make assumptions about epidurals and suddenly I am right back in my kitchen in 1994 talking with my "friend" who had not given birth at that time and listening to her ask me why I had "done that". "That" being have an epidural. I felt put on the spot and ashamed. As if I had been caught smoking a pack of Marlboro's and drinking a six pack of Budweiser the day I gave birth instead of doing what my doctor and nurse suggested after a long, hard labor. Years later when I visted her in the hospital when she had her baby, I played nice and didn't ask her why she had done "that". But she sure as heck did have her own epidural, and I sure as heck got a bit of a laugh about it!

Funny how this topic always brings out the best and worst in people.

Bottom line, if you can, ask to squat or sit if you've been pushing a while. I pushed for four hours and when my doctor finally left the room for a minute and the nurse cranked my bed up, it was amazing at how much easier it got.

I'll leave some of you ladies to your medical theories and opinions.

 

[Amy&Dan]

And have you honestly ever heard a woman say that another woman was POISONING her baby with formula??? Disagreeing with someone, and/or pointing out that breast milk is in most cases considered the best food for babies does not equal saying that formula is poison.

Sure have. My husband's aunt basically made me feel like a pile of crap for bottle feeding my dd. She got off the plane, came into my home, sat down and watched me give my dd her bottle (dd was about a week old) and really gave me the third degree for doing just that. I tried to explain I was doing both breast milk and formula at that time but she didn't seem to want to listen. She just told me some long winded strory about how some corporation (I think it was Nestle) had put a bunch of toxic baby formula on the market. That made me feel real good. Its always great when you are a new mom and some "expert" comes in and gives you the 411 on all the things you are doing wrong!

I was tempted to put some of dd's formula in her cereal the next day but I didn't.

Sorry I am sure you are a wonderful person and I know you have had several children. But your posts at times come off as very preachy.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I saw a movie the other night and a line stuck with me: "The hardest part of being a woman is having women friends". My goodness, we women can be quite hard and judgemental with each other.

This is an interesting thread and I do agree, it seems insane to push something that weights up to 8 or 9 pounds (or more God help them) out of your body when you are in a position that is the opposite of getting that done. Never made sense to me before I had my son and while I was having him it made even less sense!

But as usual with these threads, we women have to preach, beat up, quote, and get huffy with each other. Its too bad. We are all women, most of us seem to have given birth at one time or another and for some of us like me, it was quite a few years ago. Yet its still a hot button topic.

I see somebody make assumptions about epidurals and suddenly I am right back in my kitchen in 1994 talking with my "friend" who had not given birth at that time and listening to her ask me why I had "done that". "That" being have an epidural. I felt put on the spot and ashamed. As if I had been caught smoking a pack of Marlboro's and drinking a six pack of Budweiser the day I gave birth instead of doing what my doctor and nurse suggested after a long, hard labor. Years later when I visted her in the hospital when she had her baby, I played nice and didn't ask her why she had done "that". But she as heck did do that and I sure as heck got a bit of a laugh about it!

Funny how this topic always brings out the best and worst in people.

Bottom line, if you can, ask to squat or sit if you've been pushing a while. I pushed for four hours and when my doctor finally left the room for a minute and the nurse cranked my bed up, it was amazing at how much easier it got.

I'll leave some of you ladies to your medical theories and opinions.

OMG, I think this is one of THE best responses of ANY topic I have EVER seen on the DIS in all my years here.

I saw this thread yesterday, saw the first page of responses, and thought "why bother?" These days, women not only hope for a healthy child, but a wonderful performance, so that afterwards their birth experience will be judged favorably by other women based on some romanticized standards. I had medical issues with two of my 3 kids (totally unrelated to the *OMG* epidurals), and my kids weighed 10 lbs 1 oz, 10 lbs 5 oz, and 11 lbs 5 oz. My absolute BEST delivery, in all ways, was my first...a C-section. I was shocked a few months later at a new mom's group when I heard gasps of pity about that C-section that saved my DDs life, as I sat there watching my perfectly healthy, beautiful little girl crawling around on the floor. Amazing.

 

[robinb]

She just told me some long winded strory about how some corporation (I think it was Nestle) had put a bunch of toxic baby formula on the market.

I think she was talking about when Nestle marketed their powered formula to poor women in developing nations back in the 70's. Nestle convinced women that formula was better for their children than breastmilk and gave them samples to get them started. The problem was the women's breasts dried up because of formula use and but they could not afford to buy all the necessary formula so they stretched it by adding more water and babies became malnourished. In addition, the water used to mix the formula in was not always the safest and some babies died from the contaminated water.

There was also the real poisoning of formula by the Chinese in 2008. IIRC it was the same protein replacement substance that killed so many pets here in the US.

 

[MaumeeMom]

PARTIAL
I saw a movie the other night and a line stuck with me: "The hardest part of being a woman is having women friends".

I love this quote - so true!!

 

[mhsjax]

You are completely welcome to your opinion on issues of childbirth and baby care, but to call people you don't agree with you "nazis" is completely over the top. There is no reason to call people names.

I believe that many women have epidurals because "that's the way it's done" by their friends, family, the hospital and/or their doctor. Having a natural childbirth simply is not on their radar.

I don't think that is true at all. I worked for an OB for years and over 9 months you get to know patients pretty well. We had a lot of them tell me that they would try and go natural some did and some didn't. Natural was on "my radar" but after the back labor hit, epidural was the only blip on my radar. I think that you aren't giving women enough credit. Childbirth isn't like buying the latest car or clothing or purse whatever, I think women may get opnions and research and then go from there. I don't know any nurses that that push eip's or Drs that push epi's.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I love this quote - so true!!

Its from "How to Make an American Quilt". Great quote from a great movie!

 

[Amy&Dan]

OMG, I think this is one of THE best responses of ANY topic I have EVER seen on the DIS in all my years here.

I saw this thread yesterday, saw the first page of responses, and thought "why bother?" These days, women not only hope for a healthy child, but a wonderful performance, so that afterwards their birth experience will be judged favorably by other women based on some romanticized standards. I had medical issues with two of my 3 kids (totally unrelated to the *OMG* epidurals), and my kids weighed 10 lbs 1 oz, 10 lbs 5 oz, and 11 lbs 5 oz. My absolute BEST delivery, in all ways, was my first...a C-section. I was shocked a few months later at a new mom's group when I heard gasps of pity about that C-section that saved my DDs life, as I sat there watching my perfectly healthy, beautiful little girl crawling around on the floor. Amazing.

Well thanks, its so much what I feel based on 45 years of being a women and watching women do this to each other!

I lurked for a bit on this one, but then thought I'd chime in. I just think its nuts the way women put each other under a microscope and then disect every choice, decision we make.

I had a good friend give me grief recently for not wearing a bra with underwire! Five minutes after she was still talking about it I just sat there laughing hysterically.

I am glad you daughter was saved by a C Section! That's the bottom line with all of this.

 

[wvjules]

You are not alone.



Go visit the ICAN boards. See how many people thought their hired help would pay any attention to their birth plans. See how many people got HOSTILE hired help who went directly against their plans, just because.

It's good that your hired help went along with it. Not all do. Not even midwives.



Epidurals slow labor down. They are also dangerous. Epidurals cause problems. You're messing with the system. Women who have them have higher numbers of surgeries, and it's also a great way to get women to saying yes to surgery b/c it's all ready to go.

When you have an epidural, you are saying "yes, please increase my risk of complications, surgery, and death for both of us".

Sure, you might be comfy, IF the dang thing takes [I have a friend whose spinal didn't take and her doctors performed surgery on her, REFUSING TO BELIEVE her that she could feel it all. They finally knocked her out at the very last moment. She couldn't walk for a month, because her body had locked up muscularly and wouldn't release.] But if you end up with migraines caused by putting things into a closed system (I took many a health intake from women who'd suffered from horrid migraines post-epidural or spinal), that's not comfy. If the needle misses, that's not going to be comfy. etc etc.

Epidurals raise the risk of everything.

Good for Iceland, Freyja!

Hired help?

 

[Freyja]

I am glad you daughter was saved by a C Section!

So am I!
My firstborn son was saved by a c-section too