So few kids

[LSUmiss]

100% agree. Just because I, as a young adult, can pay the extra $15 like it's nothing doesn't mean that to my best friend that makes half my income it is nothing.

Right but the pp said young ppl with a lot of disposable income…that’s not your friend then.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Wo

Yes, it’s likely there are many contributing factors. However, you are speaking hypothetically, I am talking about my experience. There has been a RECENT noticeable absence of families with children in the past month. I saw it with my own eyes & DH even commented while we were there. Then I see a thread about it so it’s obviously a change others have noticed too. I have been to wdw 9 times since the start of the pandemic so this is a new change even considering the “highly contagious variants” & the pandemic.
And the pp mentioned, young ppl with a lot of DISPOSABLE income…meaning extra $$$, so it is likely that $15 extra a day doesn’t impact them the same way. Ftr, I am not complaining about the price. It really doesn’t impact us much. My complaint is & has been about how cumbersome it has become to go with young children which speaks to us no longer being Disney’s target demographic which is unfortunate since Walt designed DLR for his family with young children. And unless you have had that experience, you really can’t know how obnoxious Disney has made things. We make it work b/c we go so frequently. But, for ppl going once a year or less often, it’s quite ridiculous now.

You do understand though you've had the same complaints for years, long before the pandemic. The OP said "Weird observation but we were at Disney this past weekend and there was a distinct lack of children there." There's not a habitual "omg there's less kids every trip we go on there's less kids" it was just an open ended "we didn't see as many kids this past weekend". What you've been talking about is a general perception that Disney is purposefully making it hard for families to go. That is not a snapshot in time discussion such that was at least the impression the OP gave off.

To your point about experiences well others saw many kids. Are you wrong? Are you right? Answer is neither but certainly if the main answer was you can't bring young families to Disney then you wouldn't have differing experiences you would all have the same.

 

[LSUmiss]

You do understand though you've had the same complaints for years, long before the pandemic. The OP said "Weird observation but we were at Disney this past weekend and there was a distinct lack of children there." There's not a habitual "omg there's less kids every trip we go on there's less kids" it was just an open ended "we didn't see as many kids this past weekend". What you've been talking about is a general perception that Disney is purposefully making it hard for families to go. That is not a snapshot in time discussion such that was at least the impression the OP gave off.

To your point about experiences well others saw many kids. Are you wrong? Are you right? Answer is neither but certainly if the main answer was you can't bring young families to Disney then you wouldn't have differing experiences you would all have the same.

I think that is exactly the point about it being my complaint for years. It has been a complaint for years of many on these boards. What some of us are saying is, perhaps, Disney has finally added the straw that broke the camel’s back with it’s latest changes & genie plus. And, furthermore, some ppl are saying that Disney doesn’t care b/c ppl with young families are no longer their target demographic.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

You're putting people in categories assuming they have no issues. At least with the other poster they said there will always be people which I totally agree with, people in all sorts of traveling groups that do or don't have issues. Young adults traveling together don't mean $15 is nothing to them.

Additional charges cause problems for everyone, not just families. I know though by past comments you've been stuck on how it's directly impacted you and your toddler (I forget the age your child is now) but it's a problem for others too. Maybe don't have such a narrow field of who is impacted

You're not wrong but kids are not financially contributing to a household or a vacation. They are not paying their own way, the way that a working adult is. Obviously not in all cases, and you're right, we shouldn't make generalizations.

But if you're a family of 4 with two kids, each adult is essentially then responsible for $30 instead of $15. That means that families are going to feel the increase more dramatically. I'd also argue that families are probably those who "need" Genie+ the most. Where my husband and I would be fine with skipping Genie+ and waiting in lines, our under-5yo littles are not going to be enthused about waiting a hour for one ride.

I'm not arguing that singles/child-free couples aren't also impacted because of course they are - we all are. But considering children aren't paying for themselves, and kids are probably the least patient when it comes to lines, in the context of this conversation it stands to reason that Genie+ fees are likely at least one factor in a family's decision to skip Disney as a vacation destination.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Right but the pp said young ppl with a lot of disposable income…that’s not your friend then.

You misunderstand what they said in response to my comment. You were the one who said to young adults $15 is nothing. The poster was explaining that it is something to their friend, because they don't have the additional income they have. I actually didn't say young people with a lot of disposable income. I said "Disney is targeting those with more income they don't have a problem with parting with, that's something that's been years coming, and who has more income is not one demographic but comprises of people in all sorts of demographics."

I think that is exactly the point about it being my complaint for years. It has been a complaint for years of many on these boards. What some of us are saying is, perhaps, Disney has finally added the straw that broke the camel’s back with it’s latest changes & genie plus. And, furthermore, some ppl are saying that Disney doesn’t care b/c ppl with young families are no longer their target demographic.

And all that means is just the families that once went aren't any more. New families replace the old, the circle of life. I don't think Disney is removing any previous demographic other than setting it up that whomever has more disposable income will likely have an easier time. That can mean so many types of people from the once in a lifetimers to those who retired early to those who switched jobs, etc. Didn't someone say they've talked to so many families who are doing more vacations than before?

I guess we can go round and round with semantics here but I would categorize it as not thinking that young families aren't the demographic but rather anyone who doesn't mind parting with their additional income which didn't used to be around when you didn't have as many parties, or as many dessert parties, didn't have ticket increases the same, didn't have a paid get ahead of the line system because clearly families are still going, who those families are may be of a different income bracket than before but not the very nature of having young kids which you were framing it as.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

I don't think Disney is removing any previous demographic other than setting it up that whomever has more disposable income will likely have an easier time.

The thing is, I think by default more families are going to have a harder time ponying up for this than the average retiree or young working professional. If you're paying to go to Disney already, an extra $15 is not SUCH a huge deal for most. Not for all, but for most. But for families, that $15/pp a day is more like $30 or $45/pp per day when you include the kiddos the adults are paying for. Families are going to to feel the increase more steeply than those who don't have kids in tow.

Obviously you're going to have lots of families who don't mind the upcharge, have the disposable cash, find it worth it, and will pay it anyway. I am one of those - we will pay for the convenience and it won't kill us financially. But I do feel like that extra charge is probably more of a deterrent for anyone who has to multiply that $15 than it is for anyone who is just paying the $15 straight up for themselves.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Really the point was just that it affects a lot of people. The reason why there are so few kids right now could not be explained by just your viewpoint on how Disney isn't doing things for young families, you've already been talking about that for years anyways. Genie+ is something that has been gaining negative attention but in itself is not an sole reason why someone would be in the parks in January wondering where all the kids were. We are in a pandemic with a highly transmittable variant that is affecting young kids much more than prior variants (and that's as far as I'll go on that), we did just get off of a school break, there have been inclement weather (didn't the east coast just get a nor'easter?), there's been high disruption for a lot of people in general even with disposable income which if you actually look at it didn't families get more stimulus money over time? I don't know that there is a single one answer but some people report "there's a bunch of kids" some didn't.

You're right, Genie Plus isnt the sole reason why some might be seeing less kids at disney now, but i can promise you, that it is in fact one of the reasons why my kids will NOT be at Disney in July.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The thing is, I think by default more families are going to have a harder time ponying up for this than the average retiree or young working professional. If you're paying to go to Disney already, an extra $15 is not SUCH a huge deal for most. Not for all, but for most. But for families, that $15/pp a day is more like $30 or $45/pp per day when you include the kiddos the adults are paying for. Families are going to to feel the increase more steeply than those who don't have kids in tow.

Obviously you're going to have lots of families who don't mind the upcharge, have the disposable cash, find it worth it, and will pay it anyway. I am one of those - we will pay for the convenience and it won't kill us financially. But I do feel like that extra charge is probably more of a deterrent for anyone who has to multiply that $15 than it is for anyone who is just paying the $15 straight up for themselves.

Maybe this all depends on what life stage we are in and who we know which legit could be a point. I also detest when people make generalized income conversations because it ignores individual differences (a personal problem I know).

I know more families presently speaking who have more disposable income than I know of people my age (early 30s) and younger without kids. People tend to think more people in a unit=hard time affording but I know more who don't have kids who would struggle with coming up with even the cost of the tickets and I know many more with kids who are getting grand vacations. It really depends on someone's income and their life circumstance. Crazy as it sounds I have more purchasing power than my mother does.

I would disagree with a default notion that families financially have it harder when affording upcharges as if it's just more people=harder time. You'd think we would have learned after the Housing Crash, the Great Recession and this awful pandemic that things affect people of all groups financially differently. Some come out on top and others tumble. How can you say families with kids will feel the increase more steeply than those who don't without knowing the financial situation every visitor is in? (that was more rhetorical) Anyone with less income to spare will feel it more than someone who has more.

ETA: please know I do see where you're coming from

 

[starlite_]

You misunderstand what they said in response to my comment. You were the one who said to young adults $15 is nothing. The poster was explaining that it is something to their friend, because they don't have the additional income they have. I actually didn't say young people with a lot of disposable income. I said "Disney is targeting those with more income they don't have a problem with parting with, that's something that's been years coming, and who has more income is not one demographic but comprises of people in all sorts of demographics."

Precisely. Young adults =/= disposable income. Really getting tired of ppl putting the blame on us young adults for why Disney is supposedly less accessible to families now. Who do you think the ppl with young kids will be in a few years?

 

[ChipnDale79]

Maybe this all depends on what life stage we are in and who we know which legit could be a point. I also detest when people make generalized income conversations because it ignores individual differences (a personal problem I know).

I know more families presently speaking who have more disposable income than I know of people my age (early 30s) and younger without kids. People tend to think more people in a unit=hard time affording but I know more who don't have kids who would struggle with coming up with even the cost of the tickets and I know many more with kids who are getting grand vacations. It really depends on someone's income and their life circumstance. Crazy as it sounds I have more purchasing power than my mother does.

I would disagree with a default notion that families financially have it harder when affording upcharges as if it's just more people=harder time. You'd think we would have learned after the Housing Crash, the Great Recession and this awful pandemic that things affect people of all groups financially differently. Some come out on top and others tumble. How can you say families with kids will feel the increase more steeply than those who don't without knowing the financial situation every visitor is in? (that was more rhetorical) Anyone with less income to spare will feel it more than someone who has more.

ETA: please know I do see where you're coming from

I can only speak for myself; my wife and I were that young couple with disposable income before we had kids. Financially for us, life was a lot easier, including affording Disney. We are in no way, shape, or form struggling, but with kids, life is overall just more financially difficult, and those addons at disney do make a massive difference for us.

We were the couple that bought a house in 2007 right before the market crashed and were underwater for years. We were that family that paid upwards of 20k a year in childcare services when our kids were little and we scrapped by. Disney was important to us, and we saved and saved to go every year. We dont have child care costs anymore as our kids are older now, but because of the nickle and diming, i no longer feel the need to pay disney every single year.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I can only speak for myself; my wife and I were that young couple with disposable income before we had kids. Financially for us, life was a lot easier, including affording Disney. We are in no way, shape, or form struggling, but with kids, life is overall just more financially difficult, and those addons at disney do make a massive difference for us.

We were the couple that bought a house in 2007 right before the market crashed and were underwater for years. We were that family that paid upwards of 20k a year in childcare services when our kids were little and we scrapped by. Disney was important to us, and we saved and saved to go every year. We dont have child care costs anymore as our kids are older now, but because of the nickle and diming, i no longer feel the need to pay disney every single year.

Please don't mistake me to mean I'm trying to argue against that people with families find themselves in a penny pinch; I'm not ignoring that aspect. My comments were aimed as assuming those who do have kids will always when it comes to Disney just by the virtue of kids and those who don't have kids just by the virtue of not having kids won't. It's an presupposition into the financial lives of people and in the last 15 years a lot of that older way of thinking has gotten shaken up with life events. When you say the add on at disney make a massive difference my viewpoint was it can make a massive difference to a whole slew of Disney visitors not purely those with kids and it can make no difference to a whole slew of Disney visitors not purely those who don't have kids.

Most here on the Boards for the last several years have readily admitted that Disney is targeting higher income people. Those higher income people aren't made up of childless people only, of that we can be certain and many of their changes were made to appeal to families (whether we here on the Boards actually agree with that or not) just well families of a different level.

I think people probably would have been happier if they had just gone to what Universal has with EP because even though it would have been quite pricey the IT issues, the smartphone reliance comments and the planning part would have been eased but in order for that to work they would have had to implement it like USO does where there's no times attached. It would have put off some long-time guests but would have likely made the experience better by having 1 price that gets you into xyz rides either once or unlimited and you walk up whenever you want. As is Disney's style they've just made things a whole lot more complicated than need be for everyone with their Genie+, IAS, LL stuff.

 

[MiraclesTakeTime]

It's probably due to a combination of several things: inflation, lack of personal equity, no current school breaks, covid, and covid restrictions.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Please don't mistake me to mean I'm trying to argue against that people with families find themselves in a penny pinch; I'm not ignoring that aspect. My comments were aimed as assuming those who do have kids will always when it comes to Disney just by the virtue of kids and those who don't have kids just by the virtue of not having kids won't. It's an presupposition into the financial lives of people and in the last 15 years a lot of that older way of thinking has gotten shaken up with life events. When you say the add on at disney make a massive difference my viewpoint was it can make a massive difference to a whole slew of Disney visitors not purely those with kids and it can make no difference to a whole slew of Disney visitors not purely those who don't have kids.

Most here on the Boards for the last several years have readily admitted that Disney is targeting higher income people. Those higher income people aren't made up of childless people only, of that we can be certain and many of their changes were made to appeal to families (whether we here on the Boards actually agree with that or not) just well families of a different level.

I think people probably would have been happier if they had just gone to what Universal has with EP because even though it would have been quite pricey the IT issues, the smartphone reliance comments and the planning part would have been eased but in order for that to work they would have had to implement it like USO does where there's no times attached. It would have put off some long-time guests but would have likely made the experience better by having 1 price that gets you into xyz rides either once or unlimited and you walk up whenever you want. As is Disney's style they've just made things a whole lot more complicated than need be for everyone with their Genie+, IAS, LL stuff.

I get it, its a socioeconomic conversation.

I think people are just saying its usually much easier for someone to say "oh, $15 isnt bad" when you're buying it for one person, vs "oh crap, that's another $60" for families of 4.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I get it, its a socioeconomic conversation.

I think people are just saying its much easier for someone to say "oh, $15 isnt bad" when you're buying it for one person, vs "oh crap, that's another $60" for families of 4.

Oh I get, it was just trying to present the other side; I'm not dense about this, I'm truly understanding what people were saying. It's not really a hard discussion to I think get when we're talking about it. It's just getting people to see that just because they think 1 or 2 people is NBD doesn't mean that's the truth nor does it mean 4 is a big deal. When people are speaking personally there's not much to debate because it's one's own personal feelings and experiences. But when one is speaking generically it's going to open the conversation into "is that really the case across the board, by default, that's the way it is for everyone?" which is why I spoke up. Pretty sure this has gone on long enough though in this thread but I appreciate the kind dialogue

 

[ChipnDale79]

Pretty sure this has gone on long enough though in this thread but I appreciate the kind dialogue

 

[dez1978]

This is really interesting--- I think alot of it has to do with the Vax as well--- we were going to cancel our December trip if my DS10 was not vaccinated yet--- But, its weird--- when you mention the kids missing school--- I speak with so many parents when I pick my son up from school, and they have been telling me that they are booking MORE vacations now with their kids... (and families in general) ... just because they want to spend more time with their families now- Covid seems to have changed the way so many people view life- My DD15 tells me the same. So many of her friends are missing school here and there, because they are going away with their families to unwind a bit

I've skipping a couple pages of answers so this may have already been said. But I think covid and virtual learning has made it easier for kids to miss school. When my kids have had virtual learning it takes them maybe 2 hours a day to do their school work. And schools have adapted to having kids out at any given time, so likely already have the lesson plans for online stuff ready. I know 99% of my 5th graders stuff is done on Schoolology and Google classroom even when they are in class, so it's not that much extra for the teachers to do. Like I used to feel like I was asking the teachers to do all this extra stuff to send school work for my kids if we were on vacation bc they'd have to make the worksheets and stuff early. But this way, it's already all online for everyone. So it's just being sure that as a parent you can explain and help with the school work since they'd be missing out on the classroom instruction and that you have an internet connection that will work with the ipad/chromebook.

 

[tinkerhon]

I've skipping a couple pages of answers so this may have already been said. But I think covid and virtual learning has made it easier for kids to miss school. When my kids have had virtual learning it takes them maybe 2 hours a day to do their school work. And schools have adapted to having kids out at any given time, so likely already have the lesson plans for online stuff ready. I know 99% of my 5th graders stuff is done on Schoolology and Google classroom even when they are in class, so it's not that much extra for the teachers to do. Like I used to feel like I was asking the teachers to do all this extra stuff to send school work for my kids if we were on vacation bc they'd have to make the worksheets and stuff early. But this way, it's already all online for everyone. So it's just being sure that as a parent you can explain and help with the school work since they'd be missing out on the classroom instruction and that you have an internet connection that will work with the ipad/chromebook.

Agree with this--- although in our case--- remote not even an option this year, (which totally stinks)

 

[LSUmiss]

Precisely. Young adults =/= disposable income. Really getting tired of ppl putting the blame on us young adults for why Disney is supposedly less accessible to families now. Who do you think the ppl with young kids will be in a few years?

And I bet then your perspective will change & you will have similar complaints.

 

[dez1978]

Agree with this--- although in our case--- remote not even an option this year, (which totally stinks)

I don't think it was a long term option here, but it had to be an option for kids who were quarantined. Bc I feel like at any given time there is likely 1 kid out per class at least, so they'd have to have something set up for those kids. Esp when they were making them stay out for 10-14 days.

 

[starlite_]

And I bet then your perspective will change & you will have similar complaints.

I never said you were not allowed to complain. I merely stated my dislike of all young adults being lumped in the same disposable income category. I even agree with you that some families are being priced out. But SOME are not ALL. Stop generalizing if you please.