So are these wait times the new norm for a 5?

[3DisneyFanz]

We recently got back and the wait times sure did seem much higher than our previous visits. I don't know if it's because there are that many more people in the park or if it's because (I've heard) more people are using multiple sets of bands to get additional FP's. If more people are getting 6 or 9 or more FP's each by using multiple sets of bands that could certainly push the standby times up yet provide reports from people saying they hardly ever waited in line.

Of course those people come back talking about how great their trip was and how they never waited for anything without mentioning this was accomplished with their magic band collection.

 

[epcotty]

Yep. Josh had a recent post where he used Figment to illustrate the effects of FP+ on wait times:

"Do you know how many days Journey into Imagination with Figment saw a 30-or-more minute wait in 2012? 17. Do you know how many days Journey into Imagination with Figment saw a 30-or-more minute wait in 2015? 187. That’s a 1000% increase. Do you know how much attendance is up in those four years? Less than 4%. But keep telling yourself FastPass+ doesn’t affect wait times."

http://www.easywdw.com/easy/blog/disney-world-new-years-eve-2015-wait-times/

Wow. Why couldn't they have just stuck with the old FP? They were supposedly trying to help balance out wait times but what they've done is made everything worse. And they obviously don't care because they're still implementing FP+ really badly. If wait times are always impossible I think lots of people will be disappointed and eventually stop coming as others have said.

 

[ArwenMarie]

We recently got back and the wait times sure did seem much higher than our previous visits. I don't know if it's because there are that many more people in the park or if it's because (I've heard) more people are using multiple sets of bands to get additional FP's. If more people are getting 6 or 9 or more FP's each by using multiple sets of bands that could certainly push the standby times up yet provide reports from people saying they hardly ever waited in line.

This is a really good point. I wonder how 4th FP availability was (for those only using one set of bands.)

 

[tlmadden73]

This is a really good point. I wonder how 4th FP availability was (for those only using one set of bands.)

As having recently realized I could easily do this (get 6 fast passes per day) (And being able to do it at 30 days out because I still have an active (non-expiration) ticket on my current MDE account).

I'll be honest, even though it is "gaming" the system, if I am going to book another trip, I will be tempted to make a new MDE account to do that (especially for MK).

But, if 10% of the people in the park are using two sets of bands, that is like having 10% more people in the park (for wait times, not "congestion").
It's a loophole I am surprised they haven't closed (and I would expect them TO close it eventually).

 

[bc7ate9]

I think Disney needs to come up with a solution for this.

Pretty sure full parks are Disney's GOAL.

 

[okilydokily]

I notice that posted wait times are often over exaggerated because things change fast. I was by BTMR and someone had just posted a wait time of 20 min only 5 minutes before I looked. We go in line despite the sign saying 50. It saw almost a 50 min wait. So I can see why they over estimate the numbers. It is hard for them to predict when in the hour FP people will show up. And in many cases, you just don't know how long it will be unless you try it.

On the other side, I don't trust crowd calendars much anymore either. I usually go in the evenings so I miss the mid day crowd, and I from my experience, I would say most are just wrong these days. Even if I account for the fact that I should never expect slow times like a few years ago. Luckily, it is not always more crowded, sometimes it goes the other way. I show up on a 8 night thinking I have at least 3 rides then leave, and the crowd is lower than expected.

I went to the Osborne Lights 4 times between Thanksgiving and New Year and not once was I sent to another parking lot or had trouble with crowds. Even twice on a weekend. I think a lot of the calendars need to get more data since FP+ started, to start being more accurate.

 

[Love Tink]

But, if 10% of the people in the park are using two sets of bands, that is like having 10% more people in the park (for wait times, not "congestion").

I don't have hard numbers, obviously, but there is no way that 10% of people are using multiple magic bands. It is probably more like 1%. To use those you have to know about it, be willing to do it, set everything up properly, then execute it. I doubt 10% of people even know about it, much less do all the rest.

Pretty sure full parks are Disney's GOAL.

The Disney empire didn't come about by accident, so I'm pretty sure the folks in charge are not purposefully creating a bad experience for their consumers.

 

[okilydokily]

Pretty sure full parks are Disney's GOAL.

Full parks do not have to equate to long wait times and a bad experience for guests, which I am pretty sure is NOT Disney's goal.

Look to the Halloween and Christmas parties for an example, they can be quite crowded, but they have enough experiences for guests to make wait times for rides pretty low. Simply put, until the new rides and areas open, they need to find a solution or risk pi**ing off a lot of customers and need to come up with a solution for it.

 

[Boski]

We are at MK today, and I've been shocked by the wait times. Are these the new norm, even during a slow period in January? Easy WDW had MK listed as recommended park with an overall crowd level of 5. Was the park more crowded than expected? Or are these wait times FP+ normal?

At around 2 this afternoon:
Pirates - 65 mins
Haunted Mansion - 75 mins
Big Thunder - 85
Peter Pan - 85
7DMT - 100

Most other rides were 45-55 mins. I'm not gonna lie. These wait times have been much longer than I had hoped for.

Plus, it was *freezing* this morning, so I'm kind of shocked the weather hasn't scared some people away.

Thoughts?

MK was listed as recommended but was not most recommended or even second recommended on that day. Sunday isn't typically a good day for MK.

 

[tlmadden73]

I don't have hard numbers, obviously, but there is no way that 10% of people are using multiple magic bands. It is probably more like 1%. To use those you have to know about it, be willing to do it, set everything up properly, then execute it. I doubt 10% of people even know about it, much less do all the rest.

Oh .. for sure .. I was just making up a number. . It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but odds are this number will increase over time as more people find out (thanks to sites like this and simply word of mouth) and more people already have magic bands.

Would my parents do this? Nope. Would first-time or occasional visitors? Nope. Would I (or frequent visitors?)? Sure (see the numbers have increased already ) since there doesn't seem to be any downside to making a second MDE account for this purpose.

 

[wdw&sonny]

We were in MK last Tuesday (1/19) for one day after bringing my son to the DCP (he's going to be friends with a character).
We had no trouble getting into the Country Bear Jamboree or the Tiki Room. LOL.

Seriously, it was more crowded than we anticipated. We skipped the mountains and 7DMT as my wife doesn't ride. That gave us a huge advantage. We hit PP, WP, CoP, MI, People Mover, MP, HM (FP+) before 11:30 lunch at BoG, then had 30 min wait at little mermaid before FP+ at both JC and PoTC (both had 55 min posted wait) at around 1-2p. We then waited the posted 30 minutes for IaSW, watched FoF parade then CBJ and TR. I have concluded that WDW has kept attractions like IaSW, CBJ and Tiki room for those park goers that just don't know any better. I also realized that IF I were drunk, those attractions might be tolerable.

 

[wdw&sonny]

Also, just had to ask. My son's DCP group was asked if any of them know how many Mickey Mouses there are at WDW....does anyone want to guess?

 

[wdw&sonny]

Nope. You're wrong.
There's just ONE Mickey Mouse, silly. LOL.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

The Disney empire didn't come about by accident, so I'm pretty sure the folks in charge are not purposefully creating a bad experience for their consumers.

Im pretty sure none of the people at the top were around when the empire was being built nor do they have theme park experience. While maybe their intentions aren't to create bad experiences their lack of understanding impacts of decisions can. Unintended consequences are often the worst ones.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Oh .. for sure .. I was just making up a number. . It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but odds are this number will increase over time as more people find out (thanks to sites like this and simply word of mouth) and more people already have magic bands.

Would my parents do this? Nope. Would first-time or occasional visitors? Nope. Would I (or frequent visitors?)? Sure (see the numbers have increased already ) since there doesn't seem to be any downside to making a second MDE account for this purpose.

People want to trivialize the impact because:

1) It benefits them and if it gets turned off then they lose the ability to cheat the system. Once that happens they are going to have to experience FP+ in its purest form and they have zero interest in that.

2) The biggest argument against the old system is that people used to "hoard" them and that people couldn't get the ones they wanted. Oddly enough nothing has changed and if anything it has gotten worse. Under the old system there were strict restrictions on when you could get additional passes but now the only limit is how many magic bands and tickets one wants to keep up with.

 

[JimmyV]

Pretty sure full parks are Disney's GOAL.

That's "parks", plural. The problem seems to be that the contraction of DHS (in order to later expand it) is putting adverse pressure on the MK more so than any other park. It is not Disney's goal for people to leave saying: "Epcot was OK. Animal Kingdom was OK. Hollywood Studios was kind of a mess. And the Magic Kingdom was so crowded that we didn't have a very good time." That is the scenario that the poster was envisioning when they suggested that Disney needs to find a solution. (Though I am at a loss to figure out what that solution is. Can't very well cut off attendance at the MK on a day that is supposed to be a "4" as soon as the crowd level hits "7".)

Though the sample size is small and statistically insignificant, the last two families that I know who took their very first WDW vacation in 2015 both came back with an almost verbatim critique. "Disney World wasn't that much fun. It was too crowded and we didn't really do much. Universal Studios, on the other hand, was a blast and our kids can't wait to go back." This is a reaction that Disney really has to deal with, because it is becoming far more frequent. Up until about 7 or 8 years ago, it was really, really hard to find a family that did not enjoy their first visit to WDW. Now, it is startlingly easy to find such families.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

That's "parks", plural. The problem seems to be that the contraction of DHS (in order to later expand it) is putting adverse pressure on the MK more so than any other park. It is not Disney's goal for people to leave saying: "Epcot was OK. Animal Kingdom was OK. Hollywood Studios was kind of a mess. And the Magic Kingdom was so crowded that we didn't have a very good time." That is the scenario that the poster was envisioning when they suggested that Disney needs to find a solution. (Though I am at a loss to figure out what that solution is. Can't very well cut off attendance at the MK on a day that is supposed to be a "4" as soon as the crowd level hits "7".)

Though the sample size is small and statistically insignificant, the last two families that I know who took their very first WDW vacation in 2015 both came back with an almost verbatim critique. "Disney World wasn't that much fun. It was too crowded and we didn't really do much. Universal Studios, on the other hand, was a blast and our kids can't wait to go back." This is a reaction that Disney really has to deal with, because it is becoming far more frequent. Up until about 7 or 8 years ago, it was really, really hard to find a family that did not enjoy their first visit to WDW. Now, it is startlingly easy to find such families.

They are, but the interim period, with fewer rides, is going to make WDW less desirable. We have o deal with this today to get where Disney wants to be.

 

[TippeeCanoe]

Ok, glad I'm not the only one who was actually here who was surprised by the crowds. Lots of people (not here) on the thread are trying to convince me that it's not crowded and that the wait times aren't as bad as they seem/are posted. I was beginning to think that maybe I was crazy.

I was there a couple weeks ago and know what my experience was with higher wait times and long lines, even though people were trying to say every ride at every park they went to was walk-on during the same time frame.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I was there a couple weeks ago and know what my experience was with higher wait times and long lines, even though people were trying to say every ride at every park they went to was walk-on during the same time frame.

There are a lot of reasons that this could be true. The most obvious - you could be trying to ride different attractions within the same park, or you could be in a different park.

 

[JimmyV]

They are, but the interim period, with fewer rides, is going to make WDW less desirable. We have o deal with this today to get where Disney wants to be.

That certainly is part of the problem. And one that Disney hopes to cure through expansion. But here's the problem. The two families that I am was referring to have kids in the 11-17 age range. By the time Disney finishes doing what it is doing, their kids will "age out" of WDW since they haven't been bitten by the Disney bug. When expansions are measured in 5 year intervals, and the parks are less fun during said expansion, then Disney runs the risk of pushing away a half-generation of people that it hopes to capture as yearly visitors. My family got "bitten" many years ago, and we are more likely to overlook certain less-than-ideal circumstances. But if our first trip to WDW were to be this coming JUne or July, I can't say that we would have been captured as annually returning guests.

The other concern voiced by both families had nothing to do with construction or crowding. (Well, I guess it is somewhat related to crowding). And that is that they felt like "outsiders" and that others guests who were Disney veterans seemed to know all the ins and outs, and they, as rookies, felt overwhelmed and disadvantaged by comparison. Now, it is easy to say to such people: Do more research. Learn the "ins and outs" before you come and gain all the advantages that the veterans have; but we all know that this is both impossible and impractical. Whether their criticisms were real or imagined, this is one area where perception becomes reality. They perceived themselves as being behind the Disney curve, but did not feel that way at US/IOA.