So are these wait times the new norm for a 5?

I haven't read the whole thread and I am probably oversimplifying this...but I don't see the motivation for Disney to artificially inflate wait times. In the mornings, for example, they start out low. Why not just start them all at 60 minutes? During really bad weather, they also go very low.
 
EDITED TO ADD: You will have more time for shopping if you DON'T get into the line for the ride: that's the marketing strategy.
With the highly inflated wait times posted by Disney for stand-by queues, I am beginning to believe this. They want people to ride less and spend more. They are actually trying to discourage people from getting in stand-by queues and spreading out FP+ times to keep them in the parks. The more idle time you have in the parks, the more likely they are to separate you from more of your $$.

Sounds cynical, and maybe it is, but it isn't unbelievable or even improbable.
 
All day at MK yesterday and I will say our experience was the posted wait time was less than the actual wait time. :sad2: Of course when they add rope queues outside a line - it was easy to guess that the wait was going to be longer than offered because I don't think that part even counts in the time.


Had to laugh at 2:29 pm 7DMT posted 20 minutes. Everyone must have run to get in line because at 2:39 it was at 100 minutes.
 
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I would think slightly higher posted times would be about managing expectations rather than shopping. It is like anything, you create a target that you know you can beat rather than a stretch goal that you might fail at. People who see 45 minutes and it actually comes out 30 minutes are much happier than if it was posted 30 minutes and you actually waited 45 minutes.

Most people who see 45 minutes and they actually only waited only 30 minutes may even get a little euphoric high, "I beat the crowds" "wasn't that lucky" "my decision to get in line worked!" "my planning rocked!".

People who wait longer than what they expected; "what a waste of time" "wasnt worth that wait" "now I cant make it to..." and the kicker "I wish I had known it would have taken so long I would have done something else"
 
Had to laugh at 2:29 pm 7DMT posted 20 minutes. Everyone must have run to get in line because at 2:39 it was at 100 minutes.
Yeah, 20 minutes was clearly a mistake. That wouldn't be right the week after Labor Day.
 
I would think slightly higher posted times would be about managing expectations rather than shopping.
Yeah, this is the non-cynical view point. It is what I used to believe. Maybe it is true, but if they really want to exceed expectations they would be better off with shorter queues throughout the park, and FP+ ensures longer queues.
 
Yeah, this is the non-cynical view point. It is what I used to believe. Maybe it is true, but if they really want to exceed expectations they would be better off with shorter queues throughout the park, and FP+ ensures longer queues.

Maybe Im only non-cynical on this board! Real life it's kinda what I'm known for.
 
Maybe Im only non-cynical on this board! Real life it's kinda what I'm known for.
Cynicism comes from decades of experience in real life, but I am glad that you have managed to keep a positive outlook. I try.
 
Crowds are to a point where mid day hours (noon-5p) are likely busy with 60 minute+ waits on all major attractions most days of the year now. EMH (morning/evening), RD and FP+ strategies are likely your best approach in planning for pretty much year around. If you get lucky and happen to hit a slow day - due to weather or just low crowds - treat it as a bonus but going in do not expect it. Closures at Epcot and DHS, improving economy for many people, lower gas prices, more international visitors will likely continue to drive crowds. The various crowd calendars are still useful for planning, but again do not expect low or no crowds or lines and with what appears to be growth in crowds pretty much year round the crowd calendars will be forced to update their forecasts.
 
If Disney did not make a profit, there would be no Disney. I don't think their outlook is 'try to screw the customer' as its more 'how can we maximize profits'. And I defy anyone to name a large corporation that does not want to maximize profits. The interesting concept though, is this: Disney is a world leader and a world innovator in many things, and one of the biggest things they do well is marketing. They are the best of the best and it shows.

Having seen that they can convince people to wear bands on their wrists (every man, woman and child) that can track them while in the parks, (a marketing tool to gather LARGE SCALE INFORMATION like NO OTHER on this planet) to indicate not only when they will be in the parks 30 - 60 days in advance BUT ALSO at WHICH park, even down to where exactly in the park by fp+ and restaurant reservations. Even better, they can get people to buy these bands, or purchase upgrades - unbelievable!

When I read first hand reports from people going to the parks this January, and reporting a common experience of standby times being at times drastically inflated (I think its fair to say drastically, as something that is only marginally different would probably not be noted and commented on), It makes me think - What is Disney up to?

And, being the best of the best in marketing, I am going to hypothesize that its possible, on certain days, at certain attractions, the marketing team is observing cause/effect of standby wait times at certain times of the day, so they can create demand and give incentive to the customers to encourage spending. I think that is a very real possibility. They are looking for the sweet spot: maximum revenue no matter what time of year, and how to achieve it. Manipulating the standby times, we are all working as lab rats for the marketing team. If the standby time is 45 minutes for HM, will they enter? If its 49 minutes will they enter? If its 51 minutes will they enter? And we all are wearing those gorgeous bands they will electronically record this into a data base effortlessly for disney. And when is the best time to collect this data? At the slowest time of year, when they can easily manipulate a 'need' when there is none (i.e., light crowds, but still long wait times)

SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH: MANIPULATING SUPPLY AND DEMAND WITH SOMETHING THAT COSTS THE CORPORATION ZERO DOLLARS: THAT IS - THE CONSUMERS TIME

I also think, the overstated standby times could be a combination of factors like

1: Less staffing in slower months that is very accurately predicted because fp+ includes off site visitors as well as onsite visitors- they are fine tuning the staffing savings of less personnel
2: Less operation of ride vehicles (only one side open, ext) means less expenditure on energy, damage and repair - another big cost savings
3: More people buying and eating then riding attractions. Another huge area for revenue.

Just some random thoughts....
 
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Gee, Its almost like someone predicted this a few years ago...... a year before fast pass + was on the playing field.....

It is interesting that users are finding the posted wait times, and the actual wait times are very different on this thread for January. Do you think Disney is using a new marketing strategy during slower times of the year - train the general public not to wait more then 30 minutes for a ride because they have learned to enjoy the fastpass+ on the headliners, and subtly and psychologically keep them off the rides during the slower times of the years by over stating the standby line - so people go into the stores and restaurants instead???

Perhaps a new dis strategy will be WHEN to ignore the standby times - simply ask the people exiting if they waited the 'posted' 75 minutes.

EDITED TO ADD: You will have more time for shopping if you DONT get into the line for the ride: thats the marketing strategy.

Along with being incredibly cost effective on staffing, : here is the idea: Disney always WANTS a line up at every b and c ride to be at 60 minutes: its a 'reasonable' amount of time for a theme park guest to wait for a ride, so they can staff all rides according to the very accurate forecast of how many people will be in the parks that day 30 days in advance : and we all give them that knowledge by booking our fast passes 30/60 days in advance - both on site and off site
As I was reading this I was reminded of a podcast I listened to where they talked about the Mickey Mouse Revue and how it opened as an E ticket attraction. However because of poor design of the queue they couldn't actually run full theaters so people were upset that they used an E ticket on an attraction that they didn't think was worth it of popular because the theater wasn't full. In the end they lowered it to a D ticket so people felt better about the ticket they used.

This translates very well to today and the environment of FP+. I don't think very many people would argue that Small World is really FP worthy but how many people have ended up using it to avoid waiting 45 min? Looking at it that way you mentally start seeing the positive of FP+ letting you skip a line and save time. The problem is the FP+ only let you skip a line artificially created by the FP+ process.
 
I was there the week after labor day and 7DMT hit 10 minutes one day around 6pm
I was there too - I do not believe that it was really that short, but it is possible. I saw Soarin' with 5 minute wait times a few times that trip.
 
If Disney did not make a profit, there would be no Disney. I don't think their outlook is 'try to screw the customer' as its more 'how can we maximize profits'. And I defy anyone to name a large corporation that does not want to maximize profits. The interesting concept though, is this: Disney is a world leader and a world innovator in many things, and one of the biggest things they do well is marketing. They are the best of the best and it shows.

Having seen that they can convince people to wear bands on their wrists (every man, woman and child) that can track them while in the parks, (a marketing tool to gather LARGE SCALE INFORMATION like NO OTHER on this planet) to indicate not only when they will be in the parks 30 - 60 days in advance BUT ALSO at WHICH park, even down to where exactly in the park by fp+ and restaurant reservations. Even better, they can get people to buy these bands, or purchase upgrades - unbelievable!

When I read first hand reports from people going to the parks this January, and reporting a common experience of standby times being at times drastically inflated (I think its fair to say drastically, as something that is only marginally different would probably not be noted and commented on), It makes me think - What is Disney up to?

And, being the best of the best in marketing, I am going to hypothesize that its possible, on certain days, at certain attractions, the marketing team is observing cause/effect of standby wait times at certain times of the day, so they can create demand and give incentive to the customers to encourage spending. I think that is a very real possibility. They are looking for the sweet spot: maximum revenue no matter what time of year, and how to achieve it. Manipulating the standby times, we are all working as lab rats for the marketing team. If the standby time is 45 minutes for HM, will they enter? If its 49 minutes will they enter? If its 51 minutes will they enter? And we all are wearing those gorgeous bands they will electronically record this into a data base effortlessly for disney. And when is the best time to collect this data? At the slowest time of year, when they can easily manipulate a 'need' when there is none (i.e., light crowds, but still long wait times)

SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH: MANIPULATING SUPPLY AND DEMAND WITH SOMETHING THAT COSTS THE CORPORATION ZERO DOLLARS: THAT IS - THE CONSUMERS TIME

I also think, the overstated standby times could be a combination of factors like

1: Less staffing in slower months that is very accurately predicted because fp+ includes off site visitors as well as onsite visitors- they are fine tuning the staffing savings of less personnel
2: Less operation of ride vehicles (only one side open, ext) means less expenditure on energy, damage and repair - another big cost savings
3: More people buying and eating then riding attractions. Another huge area for revenue.

Just some random thoughts....

I do think that Disney trying to use MM+ to"optimize" staff to maintain 30-45 minutes waits year round. I think it's one of the only ways to get MM+ to pay for itself.

We talk about foreign visitors all the time, but the dollar is stronger than it was a year ago and that will affect people's plans.
 
We were also there second week in Jan. Big wait times and when the park closes at 8 it doesn't help any. Seems like no more off season at disney world !!
 
We are at MK today, and I've been shocked by the wait times. Are these the new norm, even during a slow period in January? Easy WDW had MK listed as recommended park with an overall crowd level of 5. Was the park more crowded than expected? Or are these wait times FP+ normal?

At around 2 this afternoon:
Pirates - 65 mins
Haunted Mansion - 75 mins
Big Thunder - 85
Peter Pan - 85
7DMT - 100

Most other rides were 45-55 mins. I'm not gonna lie. These wait times have been much longer than I had hoped for.

Plus, it was *freezing* this morning, so I'm kind of shocked the weather hasn't scared some people away.

Thoughts?
Isn't this past w/e marathon w/e? All the sites I looked at had MK listed as,a 9 or 10...
 
People dealing with these new "normal" wait times for their first ever park experiences are not going to be bitten by the Disney bug at anywhere near the same rate as those who started going years ago. I agree with PP who stated Disney will miss out on a whole group of families who would have become the next rabid fans. The powers that be really miscalculated. All of the stories we have been reading on many websites regarding the crazy crowd levels will have an effect on attendance eventually. Coupled with the ever increasing prices, there will be a breaking point sooner or later. Everyone can carry on about how planning changes everything and how it is still possible to have a great trip and continue to blame the guests for their lack of a magical vacation but all of those factors are not going to endear the Disney experience to the thousands of new visitors who are coming back regretting their trips.
 
Everyone can carry on about how planning changes everything and how it is still possible to have a great trip and continue to blame the guests for their lack of a magical vacation but all of those factors are not going to endear the Disney experience to the thousands of new visitors who are coming back regretting their trips.

It's not just new visitors and planning only made things slightly less bad. My husband and I are here for our 2nd trip (first was two years ago). We booked 7 nights at French Quarter, have the dining plan, and have Memory Maker (which hasn't worked and no one has fixed despite us spending several hours trying to get help -- we just got passed around until we gave up). We know how to plan. We know and employee all of the strategies. We use all of the "tools" that everyone mentions. We rope drop. All of it. We deeply regret this trip and very much wish that we had not come at all. It's been awful between indifferent/unhelpful cast members, the crowds, the wait times for attractions, waiting 30-60+ minutes for buses, and lots of other little things. It is to the point that we spent about 5 hours yesterday trying to figure out how to go home four days early. It turned out to be too difficult logistically, but we were willing to lose all of our money and spend the extra $1000 just to get away from here. We will not be back. Our last trip was amazing, but things have changed so much it seems. When we have asked for help/assistance, we have always been nice and polite (we are not confrontational people at all but rather quiet and courteous), but cast members just don't seem to care. People are telling me that "it's just me", but I don't think that's true. Maybe it's because we don't have kids. Maybe it's because I'm a ginger. At this point, I have no idea. Each day gets worse. We both wish that we had stayed home.
 

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