Sixth Grade Camp - required?

[Chuck S]

I think you're reading too much into it.

Sure you can tromp through streams etc in one day but 3 - 4 days is way more fun.

I don't get the hysteria or the leap that these trips are result of poor parenting. Hell, these trips are were going on in our area back in the 70s.

Bu again, if a parent wanted to do the same thing, pull the child out of the classroom for a week, and tromp through streams for 3 or 4 days because it is more "fun" than a day trip, why is that considered wrong and an unexcused absence by schools?

I'm just having trouble wrapping my thoughts around why the schools provide this, at a hefty cost, and kids that can't go are left to watch movies. Why don't the schools do the opposite...provide the info to the parents about educational activities and locations that would supplement subjects being taught, allowing the parents to take the student if they choose, while the school teaches the subject using day trips and classroom instruction...as we hear about school financial problems, etc., it seems that would be more economical.

 

[jrmasm]

Bu again, if a parent wanted to do the same thing, pull the child out of the classroom for a week, and tromp through streams for 3 or 4 days because it is more "fun" than a day trip, why is that considered wrong and an unexcused absence by schools?

It would be excused in the district that I live.

You do realize they do more than tromp though streams??

 

[Chuck S]

It would be excused in the district that I live.

You do realize they do more than tromp though streams??

Sure, but tromping through streams were originally your words, I quoted you.

You are very fortunate to live in a district that would consider a family trip of any type an excused absence, they certainly do not here.

Our local area has an outdoor learning center the schools use for day trips to explore nature. Most area school districts have a similar facility. Another question, are these mostly "city" schools that do these camping trips, or are they rural area schools? It seems like rural areas would have plenty of local opportunities for outdoor/nature interaction.

 

[jrmasm]

Sure, but tromping through streams were originally your words, I quoted you.

You are very fortunate to live in a district that would consider a family trip of any type an excused absence, they certainly do not here.

I was being flip because as I said before, I don't get the hysteria over this. Or your leap that the trip is the school's response to poor parenting. If you can't afford it, that I can understand being a problem. Maybe look into financial aid. Our district has it available for the trip.

I can get Disney approved too.

Our local area has an outdoor learning center the schools use for day trips to explore nature. Most area school districts have a similar facility. Another question, are these mostly "city" schools that do these camping trips, or are they rural area schools? It seems like rural areas would have plenty of local opportunities for outdoor/nature interaction.

We are not in a city.

In addition to educational aspects, this trip is also a rite of passage. Tradition. As adults, that may not seem that important but to the kids, it's huge.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I don't disagree with any of this. I think there can certainly be value in learning outdoor skills and camping.

But in no way to I think it is the job of public schools to provide this, nor is it something taxpayers should be funding. My kid would benefit from touring Europe, Asia, Africa and Australia. It would most certainly be educational. She'd learn a great deal about history, art, architecture, languages, cultures, etc. But it's not the public school's mission to provide this for her. I don't see the camping trip as any different at all. MY job is to raise a well-rounded individual. Public schools shouldn't be expected to do everything.

I agree with your logic, but I think everyone draws the line in a different place. It could also be said that the public school shouldn't be expected to teach the kids how to play sports, do ceramics, play the clarinet or violin, construct a birdhouse, cook a meal, etc, yet these things are still taught in public schools, either through required courses or electives. I don't think any school district needs to provide an outdoor ed program, but I think it's a great experience, and I'm glad to live in a district that does offer it.

2. Camping=Fort Wilderness with the family. Pooping in the woods and using a leaf for toilet paper is not something you have to experience to be a fully rounded person, imo.

This isn't "camping" though, it's "camp". There is a difference. The kids are not sleeping in tents and pooping in the woods. They are in fully insulated and heated cabins/dorms with beds, clean running water, toilets, showers, and a dining hall with a kitchen where meals are cooked for them (except the one or two meals they cook outside as a learning experience).

The public school systems have no right to 'demand/require' that any parent send their child away for a week. Period.... End of discussion... No further comment. The school systems know NO limits...

I may have missed a comment, but I don't think anyone has said that these programs are mandatory. In our area, it's optional, but I don't know of a single child who didn't go. (Maybe I'll hear of some now that it's dd's turn to go.)

Are there no museums, zoos, or other educational venues within driving distances to make a day trip possible? Why aren't the parents encouraged to take a weekend a month and actually spend time with their child, taking them to a zoo, or spending time in the great outdoors vs. the school? My gosh, I saw the La Brea Tar Pits, Natural History Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, Art Museums...all kinds of well-rounded educational venues on the weekends when I was young, without the school supervising it. And all of those are still less expensive options than these camps seem to be. Have parents forgotten how to be parents, and encourage adventure and exploration in their children outside of school?

Reading some of these posts, it seems parent are expected to pay several hndres dollars for some of these camps. That same $$ could be spent by the parents for several weekend getaways to educational and family activities.

To answer your bolded question, because then they would all come to the DIS to complain of the nerve of the school district, telling them what to do with their kids on their own time!

Yea, we have zoos, museums, etc. Some parents take their kids there, some don't. The school still does field trips to those types of places, too, and charges the parents for the bus and any admission fee. Should we discontinue those field trips because it's the parents responsibility as well?

 

[Chuck S]

Yea, we have zoos, museums, etc. Some parents take their kids there, some don't. The school still does field trips to those types of places, too, and charges the parents for the bus and any admission fee. Should we discontinue those field trips because it's the parents responsibility as well?

But there is a big difference in price between those day trips and a week at a camp that has to provide housing and (I assume) food. And then there are posters saying if they couldn't afford it, their child could watch "movies" at school all day for the week. My problem with that is a publicly funded school, now has "special" classes for those that can pay for it, and those that can not afford it are denied an educational benefit. It just doesn't seem like "natural science", which the whole class has been studying towards should be considered an "optional" activity, based on a family's ability to pay, like sports teams, cheerleading, band, choir or drill team.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Which is utterly horrifying to me. I cannot imagine sending my minor children away for such an extended period of time. To me that is as foreign of a concept sending my kids off to boarding school. I will never understand it.

I went to a wonderful boarding school for 4 years (high school), and prior to that I spent 6 weeks at summer camp starting at the age of 10. When I attended high school we spent 3 weeks during the school year abroad.

All I can say is that I am very grateful for all of the experiences I was able to enjoy and did everything within my power to provide our son with the same life experiences.

 

[lillygator]

this is just a foreign concept to me....grew up in FL and the only camp type or overnight/week activities were either through a church youth group or groups such as girls/boy scouts. Everything was outside of the school as well as school times.

My girls are still way to young for that. Not sure that the schools here participate either.

 

[NotUrsula]

My child attends a private parochial school, but in our case the 6th grade camp is very specifically meant to get the students away from home, away from their parents, and to force them to depend on themselves and on one another.

It is not a science learning opportunity, they don't do science while there, nor is there wilderness survival training. It is a combination prayer retreat/leadership training exercise that is meant to foster independence in new middle school students, to teach them that they can reason and make sound decisions WITHOUT their parents' input.

In seventh grade they do a refresher, but it is indoors at a Church-owned conference center, and is not overnight.

As it happens, DS didn't like the 6th grade camp, but it was primarily because he hated the food, AND because he knew that we would be VERY displeased with him when he got home. He lost his eyeglasses during a blindfolded trust exercise two hours after they arrived at camp, and even with the entire class searching, they could not be found because the area was covered in fallen leaves. He was pretty miserable going through the rest of the trip without being able to see clearly, all the while anticipating how much trouble he was going to be in once he got home. (He took the glasses off because he was afraid of breaking them if he put them in his pocket, so he put them in his dinner bag, not realizing that the bag had a hole in it. Naturally, the glasses were insured for breakage, but NOT for loss. <sigh>)

 

[Dancemom03]

My problem with that is a publicly funded school, now has "special" classes for those that can pay for it, and those that can not afford it are denied an educational benefit. It just doesn't seem like "natural science", which the whole class has been studying towards should be considered an "optional" activity, based on a family's ability to pay, like sports teams, cheerleading, band, choir or drill team.

Nothing "special". All are invited, even expected to attend. I've seen sixth/seventh grade programs of this sort in public schools in three states. I have yet to see any that denied access b/c of financial need. In fact, often the school administrators or PTA/PTSOs have a fund that is used to pay these types of expenses but parents have to ask. Bottom line, schools can't read minds - if your child needs help, be it academic or financial, it's the parent's responsibility to make a teacher or administrator aware of it so that they can make accomodations to ensure those needs are met.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

But there is a big difference in price between those day trips and a week at a camp that has to provide housing and (I assume) food. And then there are posters saying if they couldn't afford it, their child could watch "movies" at school all day for the week. My problem with that is a publicaly funded school, now has "special" classes for those that can pay for it, and those that can not afford it are denied an educational benefit. It just doesn't seem like "natural science", which the whole class has been studying towards should be considered an "optional" activity, based on a family's ability to pay, like sports teams, cheerleading, band, choir or drill team.

I hear you on that! At my dd's school, there are grants available for those who cannot afford to pay. There are also fundraising opportunities to help offset the cost for those who are paying. IIRC, most posters in this thread mentioned grants/scholarships for those who cannot afford to pay, it seems the OP was the only one offered nothing more than a payment plan. That is awful, IMO. They ought to find a way to include everyone who wants to go.


Lilygator, this was a foreign concept to me when I found out about it, too. Where I grew up there was nothing like this. My dh grew up here and did it, loved it, and the more I heard about it, the more I liked the idea.

oops, almost forgot -- where I lived, we did have the 8th grade trip to Washington DC (which I still haven't forgiven my parents for not letting me attend -- it wasn't about money, it was an early example of helicopter parenting in the 70's )

 

[taximomfor4]

OP here.

More info. There are, I think, 4-5 elementary schools feeding into this middle school. Including the 2 with the highest # of free lunch participants (1 was our school). It's a financial hardship for lots of families this year. When oldest dd went, there were fundraisers in the spring (but then, 6th grade was the last year of elem school...they JUST moved 6th grade into the middle school). We thought 6th grade camp had disappeared!!

So we didn't expect the bill.

I don't have a job. I am afraid to send dd to this camp in 5 weeks, on an agreement to make payments on their payment plan, since I have NO clue when I will finally have a job. If I tried to borrow $ from a family member, it should go toward groceries, new shoes for dh who works on his feet all day, etc. DD WANTS to go to the camp, but says if she has to choose between camp and another couple of months of dance lessons, she'd much rather dance. She's my very social kid, with a large group of friends, in spite of her "needs."

The reason they won't let the kids who miss camp take instruction with the other team is because they have all different teachers, with different school supply lists, and all going at their own paces. For example, just dd's Team 1 has 4 English teachers.

I will call the school later this week, when staff should be starting up -- my kids don't start till next week. But I'd hate to borrow money, when my finances are not guaranteed to improve any time soon.

On a side note, oldest dd DID go to 6th grade camp. She never talked much about it afterward, nor did I hear her friends gabbing about it. She did not like the food, and desperately needs alone time so being in a group all the time was not great for her.

 

[Abbie]

Here's the link to the home page for our outdoor school program. They explain the details/goals better than I can..

http://www.carrollk12.org/ods/default.asp

Hi neighbor! Thank you for posting this link! I guess if you've never been exposed to this concept it seems foreign, but it really is a wonderful program. It's not "camp" by any means, it is called Outdoor Education and that's exactly what it is. It is run by educators and as someone else mentioned, attended by the school's teachers at no extra pay. It has been around for a very long time and they are well-versed in dealing with any IEP's or special needs that come to them. It is taking them from their classroom environment and moving them to the center....very focused on learning.

I've always been kind of overprotective in many ways and when my first was heading off to camp I was a wreck. I found however that it was a thoroughly well-run week and well worth it. I've since sent two more through the program with the same results. My two oldest also spent a week as counselors when they were seniors and my junior this year can't wait to have a turn next year! Some of these kids still contact my girls. I have never, ever heard of a child who didn't love the program!

That said, I would take issue with the money aspect. OP, it sounds like you have legitimate need and I would do whatever I could to see what the school can do for you. If there is any way for your child to go, with their help, please try.

 

[daisax]

We did that in 5th grade back in the early/mid 70s. My sister did it in the 80s, and her children in the 90s and a few years ago. So it's very well established in Massachusetts.

I remember bunkbeds in a cabin -- can't recall how many girls, but I do remember a teacher reading us "Harriet the Spy" as a bedtime story! I remember hiking and looking at actual beaver dams and spotting a beaver swimming, and learning the different kinds of trees and plants and geology of the area. I also remember writing a letter home (we had to, even though the letters home arrived about the same time we did), campfires at night with plays that we had to write ourselves and perform, and taking cold showers!

 

[georgina]

Well, this has been a fun thread to read through. I saw one post that may explain why this is not done around here - it said something to the effect that the teachers are also required to be away from their families with no extra pay. No way that would that be allowed by the teachers' union here. My DD went to France (over spring break) with her high school French teacher, but that was completely optional and not everyone was expected to go. My kids get plenty of nature exploration and science education from us on our vacations, and I am glad they don't do this type of trip here.

 

[Dancemom03]

Hi neighbor! Thank you for posting this link! I guess if you've never been exposed to this concept it seems foreign, but it really is a wonderful program.

I've always been kind of overprotective in many ways and when my first was heading off to camp I was a wreck. I found however that it was a thoroughly well-run week and well worth it. I've since sent two more through the program with the same results. My two oldest also spent a week as counselors when they were seniors and my junior this year can't wait to have a turn next year! Some of these kids still contact my girls. I have never, ever heard of a child who didn't love the program!

Hi there! wow, another DIS mom from what DD19 & friends affectionately call "cowtown". Our older two have been thru the program and loved it also. DD19 volunteered as a summer camp couselor a few years back and really enjoyed it. She applied as a counselor for outdoor school in high school but wasn't chosen so volunteered over the summer instead.
I especially enjoy the photos of the program posted under "fun in the wetlands". Kids love to see what they'll be doing and parents almost always enjoy photos to help initiate more conversation at an age when it's sometimes difficult to get more than ten words out of them...