Sixth Grade Camp - required?

[npmommie]

we don't have any personal experience with this since we homeschool, but I can tell you that they do natures classroom around here, they do it in the spring, and all the kids love it, i hear them talk about it at the gymnastics center. i do know one of the moms did go up for part of the time, not sure if it was a chaperone role or what.
but anyway, the girls i know that did it found it to be a positive experience.

 

[LisaR]

I would never deny my kids any overnight field trip if I felt it was a safe environment (assuming money wasn't an issue). However, I have been in places like DC, Williamsburg and local museums & plays when groups of school kids were touring. I would have a hard time justifying the field trip as educational. There are generally too many kids, lots of distractions and too much goofing off to really count it as an educational experience. That doesn't mean it isn't a good learning experience in terms of other aspects in life but in terms of their actual education, it seems a bit of a stretch. My oldest has been on a few with different groups and she fully admits to learning much more when she is with our family as opposed to a large group. To me, it is a fun, life learning experience.

 

[TwinsinCA]

I agree with you, I would NEVER send my kids away for 8 weeks. I am not a overprotective parent either. To me a parent that send their kids away for 8 weeks during the summer is just wrong, I am sorry, but to me that rings of a parent that doesn't want to parent during the summer. so if I can be basically accused of being an overprotective mother then I will state that the poster who send the kids away for 8 weeks isn't parenting during the summer and gets free time. I am sorry but I have seen too much of parents these days trying to unload their kids on babysitters grandparents and camps in order to avoid their job as parents.

Thank you. I am glad someone else understands where I am coming from. Call me selfish or over protective, but I treasure the free time I have with my kids. I look forward to school breaks and summers as much, if not more, than my kids! They grow so fast and I want their memories of summer to be of day trips to the beach or disneyland with their family --not spending weeks on end away from home.

To the PP who has issues with the term horrifying. I find the idea of having limited to no contact with my child for 8 weeks horrifying. If you are ok with that idea? That is you. But for ME, sending them away for so long is unfathomable.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Wow. Do you really believe that these outdoor education programs are "fun little field trips some outdoorsman-wannabe cooked up for his own fun"? Pretty harsh opinion, and one that I think most educators would disagree with. These programs require a LOT of work, planning, coordination and effort. It requires teachers to spend time away from their families (with no extra pay), supervising children 24-7.

Survival skills are never a bad thing...these skills would be a lot more valuable to your child if they are ever lost in the woods than geometry will ever be. However, I guess if you believe your child will never go camping, drive along a deserted road, or travel to a ski chalet, then it makes sense that one might think they are a waste of time.

While you may believe these experiences are a waste of time and money, many people believe differently. For some children, this is their first real exposure to nature. I wonder how many children end up choosing a career in geology, natural sciences, forestry management, or tourism, after experiencing these types of programs? Whatever happened to raising well-rounded individuals who not only learned theory in the classroom, but had hands-on experience as well?
While it is your right to expect the school to make accommodations for your child if she/he are unable to participate for health reasons, do you really think it is your right to demand that every other child in your school district be denied this opportunity because of his/her issues? In my experience with these programs, a lot of effort is put into making them as inclusive as possible. You would be amazed what kids with disabilities can accomplish when given the chance (and even those kids are often amazed...which is part of the point of these programs).

My answers to the bolding:

1. Tax money better spent on educating kids, rather than entertaining them.

2. Camping=Fort Wilderness with the family. Pooping in the woods and using a leaf for toilet paper is not something you have to experience to be a fully rounded person, imo.

3. Drive along a deserted road=OnStar or a cell phone. Welcome to the 21st century.

4. Travel to a ski chalet. You got me on this one. How is a camping trip with school going to help you here? I thought that's what travel agents and the internet were for...

Anyway, different strokes. Just as some parents can't wrap their heads around letting their children do these things, I can't wrap my head around not letting them do these things unless there was a financial or severely physical reason why they couldn't.

I have no problems with what you let your kids do. You could just replace the "1" at the beginning of their ages with the number "2" and that's where my comfort zone is for letting kids do those things.

Really, I was living by myself in Europe by age 19, so I'm not a sheltered couch commando, but people live a long time, I don't necessarily think they need to be out risking their necks in canada at 16 for a month-they're going to leave soon enough for college, I'd like to spend as much time with them as I can before they fly the coop. But again, this is imo, and I don't have a problem with your choices.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I agree with you, I would NEVER send my kids away for 8 weeks. I am not a overprotective parent either. To me a parent that send their kids away for 8 weeks during the summer is just wrong, I am sorry, but to me that rings of a parent that doesn't want to parent during the summer. so if I can be basically accused of being an overprotective mother then I will state that the poster who send the kids away for 8 weeks isn't parenting during the summer and gets free time. I am sorry but I have seen too much of parents these days trying to unload their kids on babysitters grandparents and camps in order to avoid their job as parents.

My kids do spend the night very often away from home, they have been on trips for the weekend with friends and they stay by themselves while we are gone, and the oldest is 12, so they do know how to be alone without us. So I guess you and I are in agreement to me that idea is utterly horrifying.

Well, there it is. I'm an awful parent. LOL

 

[PatsGirl]

I think parents completely underestimate how incredibly independent their children are and how they can thrive in different situations. And, with all due respect, I think most people who have problems with this have problems with "letting go", which to me, is exactly what Middle School is all about, allowing our children to get out, a little bit at at time in safe, supervised situations. I personally think all this hovering our generation of parents is doing is so harmful to the kids - they go off to college and the real world completely unprepared for being independent becaue their parents do everything, can't stay out of touch for more than a few hours, etc.

I agree that helicopter parents are doing more harm than good in most cases. My parenting mottos include:

Roots and wings...
Prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child...
So It's not home sweet home, adjust!

 

[SC Minnie]

DD's school goes on a 3 day field trip in 4th grade. It is on a barrier island off the coast of SC. They spend the time with hands on learning about nature, sea life, etc. It is very much an educational trip. This camp has counselors that lead the classes and workshops. They do have parents go to chaperone as well as some of the schools teachers. The kids sleep in cabins with about 8 girls/boys and at least 1 chaperone. They have bathrooms and showers in each cabin. DD is now in 10th grade and still talks about the great time at Barrier Island.

I have to admit before we came here I had never heard of overnight camps in school. But it is a trip that DD will remember forever. I think the cost of the trip was just over $100 and there were scholarships available for those families that needed financial help. We were told of the trip when school started but the kids start talking about it in about 2nd grade so we knew it was coming. I was hesitant at first to let DD go until I talked to parents that had sent their kids in previous years and also to a couple of teachers that I was friends with that knew about the program.

 

[Jen_in_NH]

A lot of the schools around here do some form of camp - usually in 5th or 6th grade (before the kids head to middle school)

Ours was awesome, and one of the things most everyone remembers from elementary school. We left on Monday, came back on Friday. We did a ton of marine bio - type things, since we were on the Maine coast. I remember having to make tide charts, learning how the suction cups on a starfish held it on a rock, etc. Maybe it's all useless trivia, but I certainly remember it (and the boy in my class who was scared to death to touch a starfish )

It definitely was a new experience for a lot of us. The 2 local elementary schools would go at the same time, so we got to meet the kids we were going to be in middle school with before we got there.

My son will definitely go when he's in that grade.

Jen

 

[Wishing on a star]

Camps may be WONDERFUL, FANTASTIC, UNPARALLELLED, etc.. etc.. etc.

Makes NO difference.

The public school systems have no right to 'demand/require' that any parent send their child away for a week. Period.... End of discussion... No further comment. The school systems know NO limits...

My child, who has been on an IEP, would NOT go. Not under any circumstances. I would dare the school system to come after me...

And, regarding the full week of 'movies'.
Just how does that meet the required State Mandated hours of 'instructional time'?
That is just SAD.

If I up and decided that my child would spend a week of school days at home watching movies, they would send the authorities after me.

 

[Dancemom03]

My answers to the bolding:

1. Tax money better spent on educating kids, rather than entertaining them.

2. Camping=Fort Wilderness with the family. Pooping in the woods and using a leaf for toilet paper is not something you have to experience to be a fully rounded person, imo.

My DDs consider camping staying at the Days Inn - Fort Wilderness was an experience DD8 begged for and we still took our own TP along to be sure there wouldn't be any need to search for leaves!

I think the talk of camping has gotten a bit exaggerated in terms of the program and facilities that many schools use. Each of my three children has also had an IEP and experienced no problems during outdoor school. The school programs I know of in several states are wonderful experiences but not comparable with wilderness/extreme camp/summer camp experiences. It's a planned curriculim in a removed environment, with structured goals, each child's normal classroom teachers in attendance, and material learned is built upon in future science/ecology classes inside their school buildings after the program has ended.

Our environmental center on 360 acres consists of: five winterized cabins with full facilities which sleep up to 180 people, a full service dining hall with full time food service manager and staff, instructors, a full time RN when kids are on property, meeting rooms, a swimming pool, a tot lot, an archery area, two rope courses, a basketball court and ball fields. Twenty-four hour supervision is provided, even after lights out and expectations about behavior are, in many ways, higher than those back at school inside the classroom. It is not unusual for the class troublemaker to be sent home early for violating the discipline policy.
More than 75,000 sixth-graders have camped in cabins, explored wetlands and learned about wildlife since it opened 30 years ago. Many of today's campers are the children/grandchildren of former campers who fondly remember the week-long program as one of the highlights in their school careers. The adjoining Nature Center area opened in 1993 to the public and features a large exhibit hall to explain the natural environment of the region. It also includes a planetarium, children’s discovery room and an auditorium.

To address the discussion of tax dollars and entertainment... Not sure about you, but after looking at the following schedule and having had children who attended the program with their class, it's very obvious that there's a lot more learning going on than entertaining.
7:15 a.m. Wake up and begin cabin cleanup
8:00 a.m. Breakfast
8:30 a.m. Flag raising
8:45 a.m. Finish cleanup
9:15 a.m. Instructional period -- one (1) of the following environmental investigations: watershed,
wildlife habitats, weather, wetlands, environmental history, confidence course, wildlife
simulation game, fresh water ecology, environmental action/service learning.
12:15 p.m. Lunch
1:40 p.m. Instructional period (see 9:15 a.m.)
4:20 p.m. Shower and recreational time
5:15 p.m. Supper
6:30 p.m. Journal time
7:15 p.m. Evening Programs -- owl prowl, night hike, raptor program, campfire, astronomy, etc.

The lessons are brought back/continued/built upon in the traditional classroom long after the week is over. There's a recreational component of course, but it's hardly comparable to the many wild, and often unsupervised, middle school field trips taken to historical sites, zoos, museums, aquariums, ect. I have no issue at all with my tax dollars supporting education in a removed pseudo-classroom setting with a structured instructional program, nor with allowing my children to learn thru hands-on experiences using all their senses - wherever that happens.

 

[Chuck S]

Are there no museums, zoos, or other educational venues within driving distances to make a day trip possible? Why aren't the parents encouraged to take a weekend a month and actually spend time with their child, taking them to a zoo, or spending time in the great outdoors vs. the school? My gosh, I saw the La Brea Tar Pits, Natural History Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, Art Museums...all kinds of well-rounded educational venues on the weekends when I was young, without the school supervising it. And all of those are still less expensive options than these camps seem to be. Have parents forgotten how to be parents, and encourage adventure and exploration in their children outside of school?

Reading some of these posts, it seems parent are expected to pay several hndres dollars for some of these camps. That same $$ could be spent by the parents for several weekend getaways to educational and family activities.

 

[traviesojmt]

My son attend Ourdoor Science School during 5th grade in Santa Cruz, CA. http://www.osp.santacruz.k12.ca.us/ He absolutely loved it. Why can't learning be fun? He loves science so I couldn't imagine telling him that he couldn't go. The school does not make it mandatory. The kids who did not go (I think that there were 2) were taught by the 6th grade teachers that week. The cost was the parent's responsibility, but plenty of fundraisers were held to help offset costs for those who couldn't afford it. It was a wonderful experience for my son. It was a true hands-on experience.

 

[amyup]

Our school doesn't require any of the students to go. Those who choose not to go (which are maybe 2 a class at most) are taught by another teacher during the time the students are away at camp.

 

[traviesojmt]

Are there no museums, zoos, or other educational venues within driving distances to make a day trip possible? Why aren't the parents encouraged to take a weekend a month and actually spend time with their child, taking them to a zoo, or spending time in the great outdoors vs. the school? My gosh, I saw the La Brea Tar Pits, Natural History Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, Art Museums...all kinds of well-rounded educational venues on the weekends when I was young, without the school supervising it. And all of those are still less expensive options than these camps seem to be. Have parents forgotten how to be parents, and encourage adventure and exploration in their children outside of school?

Maybe I am misreading your post, but sending my child away for a week doesn't mean I don't spend time with him. Our family spent 1 1/2 months one summer traveling from Alaska through Canada to Florida. We saw Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone and much much more. That was our summer vacation. Almost every weekend is family time. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The school offered a great program that really excited my child. I think that is a good thing.

 

[jrmasm]

Are there no museums, zoos, or other educational venues within driving distances to make a day trip possible? Why aren't the parents encouraged to take a weekend a month and actually spend time with their child, taking them to a zoo, or spending time in the great outdoors vs. the school? My gosh, I saw the La Brea Tar Pits, Natural History Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, Art Museums...all kinds of well-rounded educational venues on the weekends when I was young, without the school supervising it. And all of those are still less expensive options than these camps seem to be. Have parents forgotten how to be parents, and encourage adventure and exploration in their children outside of school?

Why do you assume that is the reason for these camping trips?

 

[Chuck S]

Why do you assume that is the reason for these camping trips?

Are you saying the camping trips aren't designed to encourage adventure and exploration in the student?

And if the parents seemed to be providing that, why would the school feel the need to provide it?

Really, if a parent said "I want to take my child out for a week to go camping and explore the natural world, visit museums and attend educational programs" most schools would count that as an "unexecused" absence.

 

[jrmasm]

Are you saying the camping trips aren't designed to encourage adventure and exploration in the student?

And if the parents seemed to be providing that, why would the school feel the need to provide it?

Well since it tied together a year long science theme for my daughter, I kind of assumed it was to tie together a year long science theme.

Hmm, silly me.

 

[Chuck S]

Well since it tied together a year long science theme for my daughter, I kind of assumed it was to tie together a year long science theme.

Hmm, silly me.

Which couldn't be done in a classroom, or on a day trip to an educational location?

 

[jrmasm]

I think you're reading too much into it.

Sure you can tromp through streams etc in one day but 3 - 4 days is way more fun.

I don't get the hysteria or the leap that these trips are result of poor parenting. Hell, these trips are were going on in our area back in the 70s.

 

[RF536]

I actually went to one of these 6th grade camp outings. At my school 1/2 of the 6th grade went 1 week and the other 1/2 went the next, so if you did't go you just attended class with the other half of the students.

This was not some poop in the woods excursion, we had boy and girl cabins which were actually on different sides of the campground and the showers were individual showers with private changing rooms, think smaller versions of FW showers. The camp chaperones were teachers and senior students, but some of the parents did help out with some of the daily activites. My dad taught wilderness survival, and while I knew he was there I only saw him when I was at his station.

At my school 6th grade was the 1st year of middle school so some of the students we had been with since kindergarten and some of them we had just met that year as they had gone to the other elementary school, so camp was a great way to get to know some of the students you didn't already know.

I remember studying the life forms we found in pond water samples, native wildlife, Native American Culture, Wilderness Survival. We also did team building exercises and just had fun. This experience also allowed us to see a part of our classmates that we didn't normally see. Some of the quiet kids really shined, because they knew a lot about what we were studying.

While you might not think that wilderness survial is something your child will ever use, but the problem solving skills they learn in the process are invaluable.

If you have a chance to send you kid to a overnight campout with the school, unless there are health reasons not to send them I would strongly encourage it. Most of these programs have been running for years and have strict saftey guidlines that they must follow. For many kids this is a once in a life time opportunity for them to really camp and get to experience the outdoors. Let's face it camping in a RV at FW is not exactly camping, I know I have been there done that.