Sixth Grade Camp - required?

[Mrs.Toad]

I just floated this idea by my fourth graders and the response I got was more like

That's probably because it's not done in your area and they've never heard of it before. If they'd been seeing the pictures and hearing about how fun it is for the past 5years from older siblings, neighbors and friends, I bet they'd be as excited as my dd and the kids in her class are about it. They are going in about a month and they are like this

Where are all these kids sleeping? How are they cleaning up at the end of the day while maintaining some privacy?

I can only speak of the camp my dd is going to, but there are separate cabins for boys and girls. Cabins have multiple rooms with multiple sets of bunk beds and bathrooms down the hall. They have enclosed showers that they can use at the end of the day in privacy, but having been a girl scout leader for 6 years, I doubt any of them will use them! When we camp, they are having way too much fun to worry about what they look like or how they smell! (Though they did tell us that all kids are required to take a shower the last morning before they come home -- guess they don't want the parents to see how dirty they got! )

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

IMO, school is about academics, not a social club.

While I understand that there certainly is a large amount of socializing that occurs in school, any time the school deviates from its primary function of teaching my kids academics, we typically decline to participate.

I'm sure I'll make an exception for prom and school dances so my kids don't murdelize me, , but a weeklong camp in the middle of the school year?

No way.

And the laughable alternative that the school is suggesting, I'd just skip that week and do some socializing with my kids at WDW, or road trip to the Smithsonian, instead.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Which is utterly horrifying to me. I cannot imagine sending my minor children away for such an extended period of time. To me that is as foreign of a concept sending my kids off to boarding school. I will never understand it.

I wouldn't do it either, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks...

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Which is utterly horrifying to me. I cannot imagine sending my minor children away for such an extended period of time. To me that is as foreign of a concept sending my kids off to boarding school. I will never understand it.

I couldn't imagine my kids going to camp for such a long time, either, but these outdoor ed programs are nowhere near that. It's not really even a week. They leave Monday morning and come home Friday afternoon. They'd be at school the majority of those days anyway, so it's just four nights worth of sleepovers in a row, as far as I'm concerned.

While she hasn't gone to outdoor ed yet, my older dd has really enjoyed the similar "weeks" she's spent at Girl Scout camp away from us. We missed each other, but she gained some independence and had a blast, so it was totally worth it.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I came on the DIS to get opinions on LG washers and ended up being sidetracked into this thread. I don't want to hurt people's feelings, I'm just speaking from my own experiences. Money is one thing - a family should never have to choose between a mortgage payment and a school trip and the school should absolutely have to pay if it's directly tied to the curriculum. But, to keep a child home because you won't be able to have total control is, in my very honest opinion, selfish.

Don't buy an LG washer; their repair support is abysmal.

 

[2girlsmom]

My oldest dd did girl scout camp and loved it as well, but I have never heard of a school camp, apparently not something they have around here ever, either, and I am not sure how I would feel about it if they instituted it. I completely see the value, both socially and educationally, that is being talked about, but I guess I don't see why the kids wouldn't get that same stuff from going to summer camps, and if this is something that parents are expected to foot the bill for, then it should be optional just like summer camp is.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

IMO, school is about academics, not a social club.

This camp isn't about socializing, though, there is a lot of science work done, up close and personal, that you can't do in a classroom. They also learn mountaineering and wilderness survival skills, which isn't your typical classroom academic subject, but is as worthwhile as some of the other specials the kids do at school, like Art, Spanish, Health and PE, IMO.

Funny, though, that one poster likened camp to detention, another to a social club. It reality, it's more like a typical school day.

 

[Bonnie40]

Which is utterly horrifying to me. I cannot imagine sending my minor children away for such an extended period of time. To me that is as foreign of a concept sending my kids off to boarding school. I will never understand it.

Horrifying? Seems a little strong worded to me....

Up here in Canada my kids went on a Grade 6 camp trip from a Monday to a Friday and for my boys - their dad went cause he's fun and loves to horse around and play games with all the kids. It was always something to look forward to and they loved it!

My kids are pretty much grown, but I was always considered overly protective and it would never have been considered to not send them. I just feel bad for families who find it a financial hardship and I would like to think that the schools in question would make sure that every kid that wants to go - can go.

 

[TwinsinCA]

I'm sorry, I didn't answer your last question...that's kind of weird to me. They go to the bathroom like normal people. What privacy? Taking showers, brushing their teeth? They go in the bathroom and do it. Our elementary school has a pool, our kids have been undressing and showering around each other since 1st grade (the undressing in cubbies), but still. They've helped each other with zippers and buttons and shoelaces. I'm just not sure what you're implying.

I am not trying to "imply" anything. I asked a few questions about how certain aspects of the overnights are handled. I am assuming they are not all holed up at the Hilton with private rooms and showers. Are there enough private showers (and time) for kids to get cleaned up at the end of each day or are they expected to shower in a big group like the end of gym class? And how many kids are sleeping in one room? Are they in tents? Are they in dorms with maybe 4 kids to a room, are they in barracks with 40 kids in a room in bunks? What?

And we have very different ideas of what constitutes being a "selfish" parent. And I will just leave it at that.

 

[TwinsinCA]

Horrifying? Seems a little strong worded to me....

Up here in Canada my kids went on a Grade 6 camp trip from a Monday to a Friday

The poster I was responding to sends her kids off to camp for 8 straight WEEKS. That is what I find horrifying. I cannot fathom sending my kids off for an entire summer. I just can't.

A few days/a week at camp that parents choose for their kids? That's fine. I just don't want the school making that kind of decision.

 

[Bonnie40]

I'm sorry...I read it wrong....

I would NEVER have considered sending my kids to summer camp for 8 weeks either, but I still don't think I would use "horrifying" to make my point. I think it's a little insulting to the people who do....

 

[Pigeon]

Why on earth not????

Not to take this discussion off topic, but to answer the question...

I don't let my kids do the DARE program because it has been demonstrated time and time again by every serious independent study that has examined it to be at best totally ineffective in keeping kids from using drugs, and at worst, for certain groups of kids more likely to make them use drugs. See, for example, http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-03-172R I cannot imagine a more time-wasting activity. As a tax payer, I am incensed that the town pays the salary of a police officer and provides some tax support for a program with a proven track record of total ineffectiveness. We already pay the salaries of certified teachers to sit in the room and do nothing while this goes on.

 

[Camicar]

They also learn mountaineering and wilderness survival skills, which isn't your typical classroom academic subject, but is as worthwhile as some of the other specials the kids do at school, like Art, Spanish, Health and PE, IMO.

Due to my dd's asthma/allergies, there is no way she is going mountaineering or being away from home in a wilderness setting for that long. Period. Non-negotiable.

And I'd become the thorn in their side making them come up with accomodations for this 'school work' because (1) she would be entitled to them; (2) I'm sick unto death of so-called educators thinking all kids are able-bodied and capable of participating in such activities; and (3) as a taxpayer I consider this a fun little field trip some outdoorsman-wannabe on school staff cooked up for his own fun so I'm not gonna play nice. Given the fact that in most school districts with which I'm familiar almost all field trips have been cancelled for budgetary reasons, I find this waste of time/money appalling.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I'm sorry...I read it wrong....

I would NEVER have considered sending my kids to summer camp for 8 weeks either, but I still don't think I would use "horrifying" to make my point. I think it's a little insulting to the people who do....

Hey, different strokes. I had a very good friend tell my other friend, whose daughters also go to camp for 8 STRAIGHT WEEKS that he "loves his children too much to send them to camp."

All summer long I saw his girls - they were bored, on facebook all day long, complaining, etc.

My kids would be HORRIFIED if I told them they could no longer go. It's the most amazing place in the world. My dh and I go up for parents' weekend and we don't want to leave. We feel so blessed that we are able to provide this experience for them.

As I said - everyone has their different viewpoints - I have the benefit of having gone through the MS/HS/College years and see the end results of parenting decisions.

That's all.

 

[Bonnie40]

Hey, different strokes. I had a very good friend tell my other friend, whose daughters also go to camp for 8 STRAIGHT WEEKS that he "loves his children too much to send them to camp."

All summer long I saw his girls - they were bored, on facebook all day long, complaining, etc.

My kids would be HORRIFIED if I told them they could no longer go. It's the most amazing place in the world. My dh and I go up for parents' weekend and we don't want to leave. We feel so blessed that we are able to provide this experience for them.

As I said - everyone has their different viewpoints - I have the benefit of having gone through the MS/HS/College years and see the end results of parenting decisions.

That's all.

Sorry...I was trying to defend your right to send your kids to whatever camp you want to....

I guess I'm having more of a problem with using the term "horrifying" for this kind of situation. Just too extreme of a response that's all....

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Due to my dd's asthma/allergies, there is no way she is going mountaineering or being away from home in a wilderness setting for that long. Period. Non-negotiable.

And I'd become the thorn in their side making them come up with accomodations for this 'school work' because (1) she would be entitled to them; (2) I'm sick unto death of so-called educators thinking all kids are able-bodied and capable of participating in such activities; and (3) as a taxpayer I consider this a fun little field trip some outdoorsman-wannabe on school staff cooked up for his own fun so I'm not gonna play nice. Given the fact that in most school districts with which I'm familiar almost all field trips have been cancelled for budgetary reasons, I find this waste of time/money appalling.

Wow. Do you really believe that these outdoor education programs are "fun little field trips some outdoorsman-wannabe cooked up for his own fun"? Pretty harsh opinion, and one that I think most educators would disagree with. These programs require a LOT of work, planning, coordination and effort. It requires teachers to spend time away from their families (with no extra pay), supervising children 24-7.

Survival skills are never a bad thing...these skills would be a lot more valuable to your child if they are ever lost in the woods than geometry will ever be. However, I guess if you believe your child will never go camping, drive along a deserted road, or travel to a ski chalet, then it makes sense that one might think they are a waste of time.

While you may believe these experiences are a waste of time and money, many people believe differently. For some children, this is their first real exposure to nature. I wonder how many children end up choosing a career in geology, natural sciences, forestry management, or tourism, after experiencing these types of programs? Whatever happened to raising well-rounded individuals who not only learned theory in the classroom, but had hands-on experience as well?

While it is your right to expect the school to make accommodations for your child if she/he are unable to participate for health reasons, do you really think it is your right to demand that every other child in your school district be denied this opportunity because of his/her issues? In my experience with these programs, a lot of effort is put into making them as inclusive as possible. You would be amazed what kids with disabilities can accomplish when given the chance (and even those kids are often amazed...which is part of the point of these programs).

 

[mhsjax]

Wow you would pitch a fit to the school board and NOT even send your kid to the camp!! Glad your not in my district. There always seems to be one or two parents who would like to ruin it for the majority.


We have an overnight camp in 4th grade and then 3 nights in 5th grade. My 4th grader is beyond excited to go to the camps.

I agree with the above posted, no way would I be in favor of this. I pay taxes for my kids to go to school. Why in the world would I pay more for a week of camping. Funny but just try and take a 6th grader out of school for a camping trip with the family and they would tell you it wasn't educational enough. Not to mention, not everyone likes camping, in fact some of us would rather have a root canal than camp including my kids. Glad your kid is excited but that doesn't mean every kid is. And by the way, glad your not in my district.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Sorry...I was trying to defend your right to send your kids to whatever camp you want to....

I guess I'm having more of a problem with using the term "horrifying" for this kind of situation. Just too extreme of a response that's all....

I agree. BTW, my oldest was on a wilderness trip in Northern Quebec that started and ended at Temagami in Ontario. He was gone for 40 days on that trip - he was 17 at the time. My middle guy just completed the shortened version of that trip, 19 days at 16 years old. They both said it was the most amazing experience of their lives and all the skills they learned over the years led up to that trip. My 10 year old daughter is working toward the same trips - she can't wait until the summer of 9th grade to do the 19 day trip. She's just starting 6th grade.

Anyway, different strokes. Just as some parents can't wrap their heads around letting their children do these things, I can't wrap my head around not letting them do these things unless there was a financial or severely physical reason why they couldn't.

These types of conversations usually end up in a bad place, so it's time for me to move along. I am more than comfortable with my decisions...and I'm sure others are as well.

 

[mhsjax]

Which is utterly horrifying to me. I cannot imagine sending my minor children away for such an extended period of time. To me that is as foreign of a concept sending my kids off to boarding school. I will never understand it.

I agree with you, I would NEVER send my kids away for 8 weeks. I am not a overprotective parent either. To me a parent that send their kids away for 8 weeks during the summer is just wrong, I am sorry, but to me that rings of a parent that doesn't want to parent during the summer. so if I can be basically accused of being an overprotective mother then I will state that the poster who send the kids away for 8 weeks isn't parenting during the summer and gets free time. I am sorry but I have seen too much of parents these days trying to unload their kids on babysitters grandparents and camps in order to avoid their job as parents.

My kids do spend the night very often away from home, they have been on trips for the weekend with friends and they stay by themselves while we are gone, and the oldest is 12, so they do know how to be alone without us. So I guess you and I are in agreement to me that idea is utterly horrifying.

 

[Pigeon]

Survival skills are never a bad thing...these skills would be a lot more valuable to your child if they are ever lost in the woods than geometry will ever be. However, I guess if you believe your child will never go camping, drive along a deserted road, or travel to a ski chalet, then it makes sense that one might think they are a waste of time.

While you may believe these experiences are a waste of time and money, many people believe differently. For some children, this is their first real exposure to nature. I wonder how many children end up choosing a career in geology, natural sciences, forestry management, or tourism, after experiencing these types of programs? Whatever happened to raising well-rounded individuals who not only learned theory in the classroom, but had hands-on experience as well?

I don't disagree with any of this. I think there can certainly be value in learning outdoor skills and camping.

But in no way to I think it is the job of public schools to provide this, nor is it something taxpayers should be funding. My kid would benefit from touring Europe, Asia, Africa and Australia. It would most certainly be educational. She'd learn a great deal about history, art, architecture, languages, cultures, etc. But it's not the public school's mission to provide this for her. I don't see the camping trip as any different at all. MY job is to raise a well-rounded individual. Public schools shouldn't be expected to do everything.