Sitting with kids on the plane

[scuba]

You might want to learn more about bus design and seatbelts before condemning the lack of presence on a bus. First, buses are designed differently than cars. The lower section - aka well below the passenger compartment - takes the brunt of the impact. Passengers, even school-aged children, are safer unbelted in a bus than in a car.
Second, in the case of an accident, seatbelts would tend to be more hazardous. Someone would have to get all the children out; and there's a strong likelihood of tripping over unreeled seatbelts.

Several phases of motor vehicle accidents, you have a primary impact, stationary or not, then you have a secondary impact, bodies striking something, seatbacks, roofs, glass windows, steering wheels, rear view mirrors. Then you can have a third impact...flying objects, backpacks, football equipment, band equipment. I know school buses, in fact early in my career I have actually cut the top off of one, it was a drill. There is as much information out there indicating that seatbelts would be helpful on school buses, just like the information that tries to debunk the theory. I'm concerened about the secondary inpacts, the impacts that throw little bodies across the cabin of a bus. You see this on the news everyday. I'm now an ER nurse but while in school I was an EMT, we were trained to look for scene dangers, tripping over seatbelts.....yes I suppose it could happen but certainly not something that would keep belts from buses. Getting stuck in a seatbelt.....thats whay I have a leatherman, "it cuts seatbelts" I hope your not one of those that have a friend of a friend that said after an accident that if he HAD his seatbelt on it would have killed him are you?

There have been studies about seatbelts on buses, there have been legislation attempting to mandate it.......the fact of the matter is, schools cannot afford to buy books, cannot pay teachers. Retro fitting buses with seatbelts would be very very costly.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I would say that that is an accurate summary.

And now we start the downward spiral where posters start taking little shots at each other, and pretty soon what was actually an informative thread at the start will be closed.

actually I think the first couple of pages had more conflict and mean spirited remarks than all the rest combined. For the most part people have been pretty civil

 

[DISNEYFOS]

But the times when I do encounter the badly behaved travellers certainly has impacted my feelings on these threads.

Clearly. Unfortunately, I don't actually recall anyone on this thread advocating violence, abuse against their fellow passengers. I also don't recall anyone demanding someone move their seat.

What you see is parents who might be inexperienced in flying with children who are amazed they may be separated from their children through no fault of their own ..and many responders slightly insensitive to that.

I hold the airlines completely responsible here not my fellow passengers, and I suggest others try to view it that way as well. They do have the ability to solve the dilemma by assigning seats at purchase.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Clearly. Unfortunately, I don't actually recall anyone on this thread advocating violence, abuse against their fellow passengers. I also don't recall anyone demanding someone move their seat.

What you see is parents who might be inexperienced in flying with children who are amazed they may be separated from their children through no fault of their own ..and many responders slightly insensitive to that.

I hold the airlines completely responsible here not my fellow passengers, and I suggest others try to view it that way as well. They do have the ability to solve the dilemma by assigning seats at purchase.

No one advocated violence thank goodness. One poster did say (more than once I believe) something to the effect that she would consider anyone who would not move for a frightened 5 year old a bad person. I agree the airlines are largely to blame. But I also feel a lot of people are pretty naive about air travel. I can understand that people who have never travelled do not know what to expect--but then I think the burden is on them to read the airlines policies online, etc rather than just assuming everything will go their way.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Getting stuck in a seatbelt.....thats whay I have a leatherman, "it cuts seatbelts"

That's great - but it's a pretty sure bet no school system which ended up requiring seatbelts is going to include sixty or so tools so the students can cut themselves out - but that's NOT what I said. Persons exiting from a bus are likely to trip over a seatbelt that hasn't recoiled itself for whatever reason.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Retro fitting buses with seatbelts would be very very costly.

Very few school systems own their own buses. They contract with bus company/service providers.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I hold the airlines completely responsible here not my fellow passengers, and I suggest others try to view it that way as well. They do have the ability to solve the dilemma by assigning seats at purchase.

And many airlines already DO allow seat selection at purchase - and have for years. That an airline charges for this service and a passenger refuses to pay for it is not the airline's fault or responsibility.

But that's not the point I set out to make. Airlines do sometimes have to change equipment. If an airline assigns and guarantees seat 25C and then changes to a plane with only fifteen rows, or assigns seats BCDE and then ends up using a plane that has only two seats on each side of the plane - those passengers whose seats no longer exist would be entirely out of luck. No seat, no flying.

 

[scuba]

Despite what you believe, the airlines and many parents are perfectly fine with putting unaccompanied kids on a plane. Any other policy could be considered discrimination.
Let me ask you something - how much more would you be willing to pay for your plane tickets to subsidize a parent who, based on your beliefs, would be required to take two separate single-day round trip flights?

That's why I posted earlier, "the airlines allow it" and I don't agree with it and it's not for me, so I will just have to deal with it, sit a well behaved child next to me then fine, no problem, sit one next to me where not only do I have to watch after my 2 children and now this one, we will certainly have a problem, the parent would know it too, especially one that felt it was fine to sit him or her there in the first place.......

If an airline came out tomorrow and changed the policy about unaccompanied kids on a plane how in the world would that be discrimination? if they have studies or lawyers that indicate that the policy should change. Southwest is charging overweight folks for two seats now, that seems over the top to me, hey i'm like everyone else, I roll my eyes when i'm sitting next to a John candy type because for the most part I can pretty much rule out one of my arm rests....but no, if a major airline started recieving an unusually high amount of suits regarding minors flying alone then they most certainly would change the policy without first asking the divirced parents living on opposite sides of the country. as for the Subsidising for single parents.........I'm not willing to pay anything, this whole thread was started because folks who paid extra for assigned seats were being asked to move, I say change the policy, which unfortuntly hasn't happened, and ask the single parents of the child to pay extra to have a responsible airline person sit next to the child.......it's sunny in my world

 

[scuba]

actually I think the first couple of pages had more conflict and mean spirited remarks than all the rest combined. For the most part people have been pretty civil

I woud agree, I don't think anyone is being uncivil or rude, certainly not healthcare reform "MOB" like....just kidding, it was a joke

 

[DISNEYFOS]

And many airlines already DO allow seat selection at purchase - and have for years. That an airline charges for this service and a passenger refuses to pay for it is not the airline's fault or responsibility.

Huh? How is an airline policy or charge not an airline responsibility?

 

[scuba]

Very few school systems own their own buses. They contract with bus company/service providers.

Your right but whom do you think would be the ultimate spender for the belts? The owners of the buses would simply increase their fees to lease the buses, then the school system would try to pass a levy. It would fail, and parents lose jobs, get a divorce and then send kids unsupervised across the country, sitting next to me

 

[DISNEYFOS]

Your right but whom do you think would be the ultimate spender for the belts? The owners of the buses would simply increase their fees to lease the buses, then the school system would try to pass a levy. It would fail, and parents lose jobs, get a divorce and then send kids unsupervised across the country, sitting next to me

 

[scuba]

You're right, I don't - and I couldn't find anything stating this. Would you mind posting a link?
Airplane windows don't open, and since the plane glided to a smooth landing on the river the windows didn't break, either. In addition, one could not get the proper leverage to aim and throw even a small child out of the very small opening a missing airplane window would provide.

Oprah, Heraldo, Nancy Grace, I don't know, are you one of those that think just because it's not on the internet makes it untrue, actually I think she was either out of the plane on the wing handing the baby up to a boat, or down to a boat....but your taking me out of context, no the plane didn't break up, Of course there are no windows that open on the plane, except for the pilots windows....but, THATS NOT IMPORTANT! There are exit widows.......but MY POINT IS some children...or my child would like assistance during an emergency landing in water, in which I would lower, throw, pitch, roll, glide her out an exit, window exit, door, broken window...or in the event that i'm really uncertain if we are going to make it, I might try to make an opening.......My point isif i'm not supervising my children and sitting in another part of the plane, I cannot assist with this

 

[NHdisneylover]

Your right but whom do you think would be the ultimate spender for the belts? The owners of the buses would simply increase their fees to lease the buses, then the school system would try to pass a levy. It would fail, and parents lose jobs, get a divorce and then send kids unsupervised across the country, sitting next to me

We tend to sit 2 and 2 these days with the kids together and us together a row or two away (the kids prefer to sit together and play games). We have noticed that in the last 3 or 4 years a young child ends up next to them as often as not. We have not figured out WHY parents who do have to split up all seem to prefer to sit their child next to other children rather than adults. It works fine for my kids--Marika is such the perfect little mother she loves to add a little on into whatever they are doing--but we always think it seems odd At least they are not sitting by you, right?

 

[scuba]

Thank you I knew it was pretty young but I could not remember how young and thought it must be 10 since 10 is an "adult" ticket at the parks.


See, and here is where we disagree. Earlier you were talking about not even allowing an 11 year old to fly alone. I DO think an 11 year old has the physical and mental ability to hadle a flight and to ahndle an emergency onboard as well as most adults. It was not conveinent for me to spend a bunch of money on airfare, find soemthing special for my son to do for the summer and MISS my daughter for 6 weeks--but I feel she (and my in laws) really deserved that chance to spend the one on one time together. I feel the benefits of her having that time with her grandparents FAR outweigh the minuscule risk involved in putting her on a plane when it really was not feasible for me to travel with her just to turn right around and come home. I am GLAD there are no laws against things like this. Really, how does a lawmaker know MY child and know if she is likely to handle this okay or not?


Thank you. I emailed my brotehr in law trying to get the details of this study--but did not want to post my very foggy memory that there was a study but I could not remember who did it, etc Ironically I figure the reason I have not heard back from him is that he is in London now--going over some mroe research.

Really this thread has just showed the different views and parenting styles of each person...it's nice. Certainly if everyone agreed about the same thing then it would be kinda boring around here. I'm going to get flamed I just know it, but here it goes. Its great that you think your child could handle an emergency situation, since I have a 4 and a 2 year old, I cannot leave the room for fear that once I get back they would be hanging from an overhead light so i have not had the opportunity to have the same confidence in my children that you have of yours. like I said earlier to you, living in another country your children will certainly be more well rounded and that really is the goal as parents to provide them with every opportunity....but here it goes, the airlines shouldn't allow children under the age of 18 to fly alone(flame suit on) Why would the airlines allow children unsupervised on a plane when you cannot even rent a car until your 21 or so, unless that has changed. Not certain of the age but one would think if you can drive then you should be able to rent a car. Even cruise lines have a minimum age for cruising, I'm not exactly certain but I thinks it's like 21 as well.

Kids up from a nap, got to go. I get everyones point...I do, even Katieeldrs, It is rare, very rare for airline accidents, I get that. I'm 40 and experienced so much, I know how some folks get taken advantage of, I also know that under certain circumstances some of you had no other way then to send a child across the country.....like I said before it's just not for me...I have a confession to make. I really felt it was negligent for a parent to put a kid on a plane alone, didn't like it before this thread, not certain I still like it now, however my eyes are indeed more open...regards to everyone.....I'll still cruise the thread

 

[NHdisneylover]

but here it goes, the airlines shouldn't allow children under the age of 18 to fly alone(flame suit on) Why would the airlines allow children unsupervised on a plane when you cannot even rent a car until your 21 or so, unless that has changed. Not certain of the age but one would think if you can drive then you should be able to rent a car. Even cruise lines have a minimum age for cruising, I'm not exactly certain but I thinks it's like 21 as well.

Well, the key difference with a rental car is that the renter of the car has a BIG potential to wreck the car, thereby destroying the property of the rental agency and putting many lives in danger. The renter is DRIVING the vehicle--not riding in it Statistics show time and again that younger drivers are most likely to have wrecks (and BTW I think for most agencies it is 25, some---for a fee--will let younger drivers rent). And cruise ships? Well there is a world of diffence between a mulit day pleasure trip and just getting from point A to point B.

I really do not see how they can be compared at all. A better analogy would be to compare flights to other forms of mass transit. Is there an age limit for taking the subway alone? City bus? Taxis? How is this all that different? If anything, the flight is safer (in spite of the longer distances involved). I cannot imagine the chaos which would be caused by not allowing those under 18 to ride city busses, subways, streetcars, etc without an adult Nor can I imagine the incopetence of a society that prohibited all of these types of increasing responsibility until one magic age and then expected the 18 year old to suddenly know how to cope with it all having never coped alone with any of it until that day.

 

[Hannathy]

Please sit an unaccompanied minor next to me any day of the week!!! I have never sat next to one who was rude, imposing, smelly, obnoxious, drunk, demanding the list goes on. Actually most have been very interesting and polite seat mates.

I do wonder for those who feel they have to be with a child in an emergency do you follow your child to school everyday? If there were a fire they would be responsible for following emergency evacuation directions, taking care of themselves, and getting out of an enclosed area. There are actually more adults on a plane than there ever are in a school.

I'm sorry Scuba but 18 to fly alone? how would half the kids get to college following your logic? I can see it now yes you can go to MIT but Mommy has to fly you there! Go ahead and design a new seat belt system for your senior project but Daddy has to fasten yours on the plane. Sorry this is mean but this is what you are talking about when you say 18.

If you pay for seats to be together and it changes due to no fault of your own and your child is very young I will help you all I can BUT if you choose to disregard the fact that you are getting cheap seats because all the prime seats are already gone then don't expect me to do anything, you should have thought of that before you hit the buy button, the seats were cheap for a reason.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I'm sorry Scuba but 18 to fly alone? how would half the kids get to college following your logic?

I did not even think of that My DD will be 17 when she heads off to college. That would be pretty funny in a pathetic sort of way

 

[*Seanaci*]

Ditto what most have said.

When we flew last year (different airline) they were wonderful in making sure families were seated together by moving passengers around with their permission of course. Most passengers were very understanding and offered up their seat for a different one so the family could sit together. Heck, we were a group of 5 travelling together (my son on our laps mind you) and on the flight home, they were trying to seat a family together and my dad offered to move if needed.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

If you pay for seats to be together and it changes due to no fault of your own and your child is very young I will help you all I can BUT if you choose to disregard the fact that you are getting cheap seats because all the prime seats are already gone then don't expect me to do anything, you should have thought of that before you hit the buy button, the seats were cheap for a reason.

And how would you be able to tell the difference between the two in order to bestow your kindness on the "right" person