I really do lvoe the twists and turns this thread has taken
Bavaria--I am angry for you about the "Don't even think about it" thing
I just cannot fathom why anyone trates others like that (and just in case there is any confusion, I am not insinuating that anyone on this thread would or has)--and thanks for the nice compliments for some of us parents
I make plenty of mistakes; we all do
amberg@eastlink.ca--I am going to have to agree that you were essentially sitting together with your children. I understand as an infrequent traveller that this took you by surprise, but I can also understand that the flight attendants (who see plane configurations daily) would not even think of it as an issue at all. I think you kind of proved the point some of us have been trying to make though
in that while YOU were worried all night about your kids being "seperated" from you on the flight--THEY proved to be perfectly capable of handling it
scuba--I really do want to know your thoughts about children under 18 being allowed on other forms of mass transit without an accompanying adult. Please tell me how you feel about it and, if you feel it is different, why
*Children cannot rent a car, but they can be a pssenger in a taxi (DS10 took one last week alone; I took them often as a young kid)
*children cannot drive a bus, but they can be passengers (on both public busses which have a pretty high adult to child ration and on school busses which might, at most, have 2 adults to help the children in the event of an emergency--but in most districts it is just the driver. If the emergency involves the driver having lost conciousness then the children are on their own)
*etc
Actually, in my experience I feel there is a much greater possiblity for a problem to occur when kids take short term and common modes of transit without adults than when thye are on planes. The odds of a wreck (and serious injury or death) or much higher in a taxi or on a bus than on a plane. The likelyhood of a child falling in front of the vehicle or getting backpack strap caught and being dragged, etc. are much, much higher in ground transportation areas than on planes. Even just the possiblitity of getting lost is higher on busses, trams, trains, etc which make multiple stops.
Also, scuba, you really need to get to know some nicer 17 year olds
I taught jr high for a few years and was the young adult librarian in our little town (where about the only palce the teens had to hang out was the library) and I have to say the vast majority of teens are good people. Back to your college analogy--in my own (admittidly limited) experience, the kids in the dorms who were really out of control in those first couple of years of college were ALL kids who were very sheltered (or controled?
) in their younger years. It seemed like they had no experience in how to make good decisions for themselves and they had too much thrust at them all at once. I guess this is what I worry about happening to any kids who are prevented from handling things on their own until a magic age and then expected to suddenly be able to handle it all.
I guess it comes down to how you look at what it means to grow up. I do not think it is something that happes magically at ANY certain age. I think it is process. A long one. It starts when babies begin to be independant from their parents by learning to roll over (change their position all by themselves) then crawl/scoot/walk (go somewhere else all by themselves), feed themselves, dress themselves, etc. I don't think that process should be suddenly halted when a child hits preschool age. I think that amazing learning curve of early childhood may lessen but it needs to be maintained throughout many years, because chidlren are wired to want to become more and more independant all the time. There are lots of ways for children to continue to take steps towards being independent and some of those can very validly include sitting a few rows (or a whole plane length) away from mom and dad as a 4 year old, then flying alone as an UM as a 10 year old, then flying just on their own as a 13 year old--depends on the airline if this is allowed--my own DD always feels SAFER if she is allowed to handle herself rather than being forced to rely on others (and wait for their assistance when she oculd have solved the problem herself faster), etc.
It does seem to be happening more and more (and as someone pointed out earlier--these cases inevitably involve accompanied children--or else full grown adults
). I have never been on a lfight which had to return to the gate becuase of a child's behaviour. I have twice been "treated" to the spectacle of watching out of control drunks led off by the police though (something about flying out of Puerto Vallarta seems to bring out the worst in party types
