Sitting with kids on the plane

[scuba]

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I don't get you highlighting the throw kid out the window to a life boat thing......look it up, survivors from the Hudson river landing described yelling at a passesnger to throw the child she was holding to other passesngers in the boat...we will catch him.........as for the faith in humanity thing, working in the emergency department I have see some amazing things, I have also seen my...well more than my fair share of human beings acting unreasonable, unsensible, and unresponsible. I'm not that interested in taking that chance, no I've not given up on humanity. I'm not willing to take a chance that the person sitting next to my child would take her mask, or run her over trying to get to an exit.........very, very interesting that a large percent of posters here would allow a stranger the responsibility of their childs safety in the event of an emergency....mindboggling. I suppose some of you just pick a daycare out of a book without researchiong it first?, how about a Doctor? Just pick a name that sounds good? how about a hospitial, without knowing their track record? hospital aquired infections? wow this is amazing to think.....hey Katieldr, what if a kid was sitting next to me, but I had my own kids to see to? I might do my very best to at least assist...but hey, and I might get flamed, but my responsibility is to MY children, not some yodle in the back that felt I would simply be responsible for him or her...thats the hard facts....the get right down to it sort of thing we are looking for, the plane is in flames on the ground and I have MY kids to take care of

Look, it's all the same, the OP has been gone for days leaving us all to duke it out, and although I don't thinks she was a troll, I thinks she was just asking a question. So here we are, somehow dumber for it because I have alot of laundry to do.

so I'll nutshell my piece, life is full of choices but choice always brings a friend. the friend's name is regret......I don't like living with regret, he doesn't pick up. I know that statistically air travel is safe but as we all Know, falls from 35,000 feet are most often fatal, drowning is usually fatal and so is burning up. Suppose I book that next trip and Delta or whom ever and they put my 5 year old or lets stretch it...11 year old in another far away seat...not picking on delta, I happen to like them. I survive, my kid don't. Why? maybe the guy pushed him out of the way getting to an exit, maybe a shoestring got caught, maybe he couldn't get his seatbelt undone...who knows, but guess what? i'm living with regret...same goes for the folks putting their kid on a plane alone. My kid sitting next to me...I know what he or she is doing, i control that aspect of the flight...I heard a saying not long ago...always be there for your children because we have control over little else, I've been very vocal....well more than vocal towards our local school board. As of yet I don't have kids in school, but think about this....we 5 point harness our kids in the car but then we have them just walk onto a bus.....Ohio just passes legislation that made it illegal to have a child shorter than 4'8" not in a booster seat......lastly kids cannot drive a car, sure many could, we don't let them, they cannot purchase beer, cannot vote, cannot make medical decisions, heck even my local amusement park and even Disney won't allow a kid to ride BTMRR without a parent, yet some of you seem it is appropriate to allow a kid, child to sit unattended seperated by what? dozens of rows, and either expect that he or she can save themselves or that the adult sitting next to them will be sensible, responsible, oh and reasonable

 

[dis-happy]

True confession: not too terribly long ago on a coast to coast flight, DH and I sat in FC while the three kids sat in coach.

 

[crashbb]

The first European airline has launched this idea.
I'm sure in a year we need coins to use the lavatory.

Ryan Air (and its owner) is in a league of its own.

The airline has stated that the announcement was done for publicity more than anything else.

 

[Drusilla]

True confession: not too terribly long ago on a coast to coast flight, DH and I sat in FC while the three kids sat in coach.

But how old were your kids? I'm sure they weren't toddlers...

 

[NHdisneylover]

Yes I am celebrating! I also got him to agree to take the kids to the plane lavatory when needed - I just can't stand the smell in there! LOL I must have done something right last night What a great guy I married

You DID catch a good one

True confession: not too terribly long ago on a coast to coast flight, DH and I sat in FC while the three kids sat in coach.

I bet you enjoyed it too!

scuba--I have enjoyed discussing this with you. I really have I just have to say, while toddleres cannot ride alone at Disneyworld, fairly young kids can (I think it is 7). DD used to ride Mission Space alone all the time (she is the only one of us who can handle it Now that DS is tall enough and brave he rides with her). I think WDW also allows children in the park with no adult at age 10. I have to start to trear myself away from this thread so I won't talk much about the regret thing. Suffice to say, TO ME, hindsight is always 20/20 but I feel I would regret not raising my kids to handle things on tehir own and have lots of confidence in their abikity t odo so built by practice--and I know that sometimes even being right there does not garuauntee that my child will not be injured (the only airline travel realted injury any of us has ever sustained happend in teh airport, still on the ground when DS sat in the chair next to me. Turned out one of the screws holding the chair back on was missing and the other was VERY lose. He leaned back and the chairback flew out from behind him and he fell backwards into a support beam on the chairs and cracked hi head open with me right there beside him--I just cannot control everything and what I feel is the right amount to try to control is different than what you feel is)

 

[scuba]

katieeldr, read your last post alittle better, I mentioned that while flying with our daughters, during flying with daughters......meaning when we were sitting on the plane for the first time with our daughter in wifes arms, I asked, hey were would she get a mask...walllll-la infor learned..respectfully. We also felt that after the first flight that we were not interested in flying with DD in arms so forked over for seats.

respectfully........700 billion miles? billion with a "B"? look i'm not even going to get into that, certainly I have no clue to whom I'm speaking, I could believe that you are a flight attendant? pilot? but I have a hard time that anyone that goes to work 9-5 off on all weekends and holidays can rack up 700 billion miles, in a year.......wow the frequent flier miles you must have?

as for the whole divorced parent thing.....your not going to like my answer...don't get a divorce, but that is another threat entirely...seriously, I don't believe that folks should be putting unattended kids on a plane...regardless of the situation. Hundreds of things out there that we feel kids don't have the physical or mental ability to accomplish and we shouldn't change rules just because Mom and Dad got a divorce, or Grandparents wanted the children for the summer. The airlines allow it, I don't like the policy and wouldn't choose that for my children..to each their own.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think WDW also allows children in the park with no adult at age 10.

FTR, WDW allows children to visit the theme parks without an adult at age seven, not 10.

From a ticket receipt that I have from last year:

Persons under the age of 7 must be accompanied by an adult when attending the​

Magic Kingdom®​

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Park, Epcot®, Disney-MGM Studios or Disney’s Animal
Kingdom® Theme Park. If your ticket includes admission to Disney’s Blizzard
Beach Water Park or Disney’s Typhoon Lagoon Water Park, please note that​

persons under the age of 10 must be accompanied by an adult.

 

[scuba]

FTR, WDW allows children to visit the theme parks without an adult at age seven, not 10.

From a ticket receipt that I have from last year:

Maybe I just know the wrong 7 year olds. 7 really? at Disney world without an adult. You know, i'm not a worry wort, not overprotective. I watch our kids around our pool but don't hover, drives Grandma nuts, she is a hover! I ride our motorcycle with a helmet and jeans and boots and glove and a padded riding jacket. I put out kids in car seats and buckle them up when they are in shopping carts, but most of the 7 years olds I know couldn't save themselves from a wet paper shopping bag.........you know, parents are "overprotective" when nothing happens but when something does we all scream...where was the parents? seriously, I can see it now, on this very board a thread debating why a 7 year old was without supervision at Disney, whom after riding BTMRR lost his hat and was struck by very same ride trying to get his hat.............DISCLAIMER <DIDN'T HAPPEN> NOT INTENDED TO START RUMORS. however it did happen I think recently at a regional park where a kid was decapitated trying to get his hat..........

 

[kaytieeldr]

respectfully........700 billion miles? billion with a "B"? look i'm not even going to get into that, certainly I have no clue to whom I'm speaking, I could believe that you are a flight attendant? pilot? but I have a hard time that anyone that goes to work 9-5 off on all weekends and holidays can rack up 700 billion miles, in a year.......wow the frequent flier miles you must have?

Please go back and reread the post to which you refer. Not me - Americans total

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't get you highlighting the throw kid out the window to a life boat thing......look it up, survivors from the Hudson river landing described yelling at a passesnger to throw the child she was holding to other passesngers in the boat...we will catch him

MOST airline accidents don't result in the pilot landing safely on relatively calm river.

 

[kaytieeldr]

very, very interesting that a large percent of posters here would allow a stranger the responsibility of their childs safety in the event of an emergency....mindboggling.

First, again, emergencies ARE emergencies because they're (a) unexpected and (b) not typicial. I think most wouldn't do hand their child off to a stranger on a whim, but given a choice of flying in non-adjacent seats or not flying at all on that plane, at likely additional cost to the passenger, most would choose the separate seats.

I suppose some of you just pick a daycare out of a book without researchiong it first?, how about a Doctor? Just pick a name that sounds good? how about a hospitial, without knowing their track record? hospital aquired infections? wow this is amazing to think.....

Oh, please. Now you're getting ridiculous. But tell me - do you investigate the individual teachers? I would suppose I mean their bad habits, criminal records, tendency to panic in an emergency... do you investigate the bus drivers? In all your examples though, you are talking about long-term relationships; many of us here, on the other hand, are simply talking about the POSSIBILITY that one MAY be seated away from one's children on a plane for a couple/few hours. Do you not let your children out of your sight ever? How about out of the sound of your voice? Are you ever geographically located in a way that you are not immediately accessible to them?
Too, I don't get the obsession with "emergency". THEY ARE RARE on a plane - far, far more rare than walking down the stairs at home, or driving up the street... And frankly, the parents who think their children couldn't function in the type of situation that might arise on a plane, truly underestimate their children. Sure, there are exceptions - but if a child is old enough to go to school alone, he or she is almost certainly capable of obeying instructions.

.....hey Katieldr, what if a kid was sitting next to me, but I had my own kids to see to? I might do my very best to at least assist...but hey, and I might get flamed, but my responsibility is to MY children, not some yodle in the back that felt I would simply be responsible for him or her...

Just as you would not intentionally seat your child away from you, likely neither would that 'yodle' (although I always thought that was a snack cake or an echoing call - did you perhaps mean 'yokel'?). But sometimes circumstances dictate.

 

[kaytieeldr]

well more than vocal towards our local school board. As of yet I don't have kids in school, but think about this....we 5 point harness our kids in the car but then we have them just walk onto a bus.....

You might want to learn more about bus design and seatbelts before condemning the lack of presence on a bus. First, buses are designed differently than cars. The lower section - aka well below the passenger compartment - takes the brunt of the impact. Passengers, even school-aged children, are safer unbelted in a bus than in a car.
Second, in the case of an accident, seatbelts would tend to be more hazardous. Someone would have to get all the children out; and there's a strong likelihood of tripping over unreeled seatbelts.

 

[kaytieeldr]

as for the whole divorced parent thing.....your not going to like my answer...don't get a divorce, but that is another threat entirely...seriously, I don't believe that folks should be putting unattended kids on a plane...regardless of the situation.

Despite what you believe, the airlines and many parents are perfectly fine with putting unaccompanied kids on a plane. Any other policy could be considered discrimination.
Let me ask you something - how much more would you be willing to pay for your plane tickets to subsidize a parent who, based on your beliefs, would be required to take two separate single-day round trip flights?

 

[bavaria]

I have only skimmed the thread because it is the same drama which flies around every few weeks. But I think that I can guess that the thread contains variants of the following

• nothing is more important than (my) children
• anyone who refuses to move is rude/incosiderate/cannot have children
• nobody else has issues more important than my issues
• other travellers will not help during an emergency because they are not nice people
• anyone who disagrees with my opinion is just not very nice at all
• the parents who post that they are ok with their children sitting away from them must be bad parents
• there are predators on the plane (I see that made it as early as page 5)
• air travel is very unsafe

This goes around and around and around and there will never be agreement. Crashbb posts an excellent list of 'what to do' in this situation. Read it, follow it. Treat your fellow passengers and the airline employees with respect.

I have been on the receiving end of verbal threats, kicks, pushes, hits, screaming, shouting, and all kinds of other bad behaviour over the years from passengers who demand (not requested, but demanded) that I move for them because their situation (whatever that was) was more important to them than mine could be. I have moved for many passengers, but I have also said no many times because I was unable to move.

I think that we all understand that 'your' (meaning the collective) children are the most important thing to 'you'. But please realise that choosing to travel by plane means being part of a larger group, and your wants and needs may not be the same priority to everyone else.

There is no reason to treat others badly, or to physically or verbally assault them. Take responsibility for yourself; prepurchase seats, follow crashbb's list if needed. Worse case scenario if it means that much to you and it cannot happen that you get seats together, ask to deplane and take a later flight.

The reality is that usually DISworld and RealWorld vary greatly; in RealWorld those of us who travel in the parallel universe fly millions of miles a year with little fuss or drama.

But the times when I do encounter the badly behaved travellers certainly has impacted my feelings on these threads.

 

[NotUrsula]

This is an incredible thread, first I think we are confusing behaving appropriate while sitting alone on a plane VS. a minor having the ability to save ones self and not contribute to others being injured or worse. I regretfully used the word tragedy, I should have used the word mishap, emergency, accident.....anything that would require folks to get off the plane in fashions other than what is normally used, slides, window exits, tailcone exits, add in the old engine fire and smoke in the cabin and that reasonable person you mentioned that might or might not have looked after your kid cannot be found, infact he is already on a bus to the termninal. I cannot tell a reasonable individual simply by looking at them, can you? i'm certainly not going to trust their decisions in knowing what is best for my child in an emergency. I would tend to agree with you that most folks would indeed help a child, but your not going to risk my childs safety on an assumption. ...

... as for the emergencies I frequently hear about, most recently the Hudson most successful crash? controlled water landing if you will. before that the dash 8 in Newark, France Air 230 airbus, before that a Continental 737 in Denver that skidded off the runway resulting in engine fire and fire in the cabin, and don't even get me started on overseas crashes and accidents.

As for the minors traveling across the country alone, I cannot fathom why we allow this. I did a quick search and found out that most airlines do not 100% take responsibility for the minor and infact very nearly treat them as if they were adults....scary stuff. Again are we believing that these minors in the event of an emergency can indeed save themselves? I hope not...using your reasoning, thousands of children walk across busy streets without getting hurt but I don't advocate it unsupervised...how about swimming? thousands of kids swim each year without killing themselves but i'm not willing to allow my children to swim unsupervised.

Actually, extensive testing with drills, and interviews after real incidents, has been done by the UK's CAA (their version of the FAA). They have found that in the event of an emergency evacuation, the people MOST likely to do exactly as they are told and exit the plane quickly and calmly are school-aged children, from age 5 to 18. Why? Because they do evacuation drills in school, and they are accustomed to following the orders of authority figures without question.

As a result of these tests and interviews, the UK's rule is that children 12 and younger must be seated "within arms reach" of an adult in the same party. The reason for the rule is what is interesting (and this is a quote):

It is probable that family group members would seek each other out should an emergency evacuation be required, an action that could adversely affect the passenger flow rates towards emergency exits and might seriously affect the outcome of an evacuation.

The "family members" being referred to are really the parents, as the test showed that if the parents were not seated with the children, they almost always would go against the evacuation flow to try to reach them. Almost every time, they also found that by the time the parent reached the child's seat, the child was already waiting outside the plane, because the child had done exactly as the FA instructed. The kids trusted that the crew would protect them, but the parents did not.

Of course, these were not American children; maybe American children are more prone to panic. Personally I don't think so. I think that a healthy kid who is used to unquestioningly following the orders of a teacher will do just fine in an emergency evacuation without his parents right on his tail. Perhaps even better, because with his parents there he might be inclined to look to them rather than the FA for instructions, which really isn't best, because the FA's are trained for this situation, and the average parent is not.

 

[scuba]

MOST airline accidents don't result in the pilot landing safely on relatively calm river.

You got that right......that was an incredible story. I would believe that statistics would show you that that shouldn't have happened the way it want down and instead of a rescue it should have been a body recovery.....I hope that everyone on the plane wakes up every day knowing how close they came! It's moments in people's lives where things like traffic jams, stores closing just minutes before you get there and rain on picnic days just aren't as significant as they once was......must be enlightening, somehow spiritual and maybe above what I can even comprehend. I try in my everyday life...working in an ER where I frequently see despair and pain, and all I have to worry about right this minute is "Am I going to get a Disney cruise cabin upgrade"? That feeling of satisfaction only lasts until I get that 3am abdominal pain patient that has had the pain for a year and has been to every gastroenterologist in the city.......hoping we are going to find the problem

Lastly, I certainly am enjoying the discussion really I'm not certain what you mean, certainly we can agree that landing in the water was an accident? his first choice was a cemented runway. maybe i'm not getting it. My whole point of throwing my kid out the window to a life boat would be because i'm going to have a harder time saving myself with her in my arms...so I would assure her safety first....ok, by gently lowering her to waiting arms in an inflatable raft. maybe THROWING was over the top. maybe you were refering to ditching a plane. I would almost certainl;y agree that ditching usually is not all that successful, there have been a few, also there have been more than a few of aircraft skidding off the end of a runway into rivers where life rafts can actually be deployed...I think that was maybe your point...I think

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't get you highlighting the throw kid out the window to a life boat thing......look it up, survivors from the Hudson river landing described yelling at a passesnger to throw the child she was holding to other passesngers in the boat...we will catch him.........

You're right, I don't - and I couldn't find anything stating this. Would you mind posting a link?
Airplane windows don't open, and since the plane glided to a smooth landing on the river the windows didn't break, either. In addition, one could not get the proper leverage to aim and throw even a small child out of the very small opening a missing airplane window would provide.

 

[NHdisneylover]

FTR, WDW allows children to visit the theme parks without an adult at age seven, not 10.

From a ticket receipt that I have from last year:

Thank you I knew it was pretty young but I could not remember how young and thought it must be 10 since 10 is an "adult" ticket at the parks.

Hundreds of things out there that we feel kids don't have the physical or mental ability to accomplish and we shouldn't change rules just because Mom and Dad got a divorce, or Grandparents wanted the children for the summer. The airlines allow it, I don't like the policy and wouldn't choose that for my children..to each their own.

See, and here is where we disagree. Earlier you were talking about not even allowing an 11 year old to fly alone. I DO think an 11 year old has the physical and mental ability to hadle a flight and to ahndle an emergency onboard as well as most adults. It was not conveinent for me to spend a bunch of money on airfare, find soemthing special for my son to do for the summer and MISS my daughter for 6 weeks--but I feel she (and my in laws) really deserved that chance to spend the one on one time together. I feel the benefits of her having that time with her grandparents FAR outweigh the minuscule risk involved in putting her on a plane when it really was not feasible for me to travel with her just to turn right around and come home. I am GLAD there are no laws against things like this. Really, how does a lawmaker know MY child and know if she is likely to handle this okay or not?

Actually, extensive testing with drills, and interviews after real incidents, has been done by the UK's CAA (their version of the FAA).

Thank you. I emailed my brotehr in law trying to get the details of this study--but did not want to post my very foggy memory that there was a study but I could not remember who did it, etc Ironically I figure the reason I have not heard back from him is that he is in London now--going over some mroe research.

 

[scuba]

First, again, emergencies ARE emergencies because they're (a) unexpected and (b) not typicial. I think most wouldn't do hand their child off to a stranger on a whim, but given a choice of flying in non-adjacent seats or not flying at all on that plane, at likely additional cost to the passenger, most would choose the separate seats.
Oh, please. Now you're getting ridiculous. But tell me - do you investigate the individual teachers? I would suppose I mean their bad habits, criminal records, tendency to panic in an emergency... do you investigate the bus drivers? In all your examples though, you are talking about long-term relationships; many of us here, on the other hand, are simply talking about the POSSIBILITY that one MAY be seated away from one's children on a plane for a couple/few hours. Do you not let your children out of your sight ever? How about out of the sound of your voice? Are you ever geographically located in a way that you are not immediately accessible to them?
Too, I don't get the obsession with "emergency". THEY ARE RARE on a plane - far, far more rare than walking down the stairs at home, or driving up the street... And frankly, the parents who think their children couldn't function in the type of situation that might arise on a plane, truly underestimate their children. Sure, there are exceptions - but if a child is old enough to go to school alone, he or she is almost certainly capable of obeying instructions.
Just as you would not intentionally seat your child away from you, likely neither would that 'yodle' (although I always thought that was a snack cake or an echoing call - did you perhaps mean 'yokel'?). But sometimes circumstances dictate.

Clarify this for me, who is being ridiculous? seriously yokel....yodel, you still got it, that might have actually been the first time in my life I have actually used the word in a sentence.

 

[maxiesmom]

I have only skimmed the thread because it is the same drama which flies around every few weeks. But I think that I can guess that the thread contains variants of the following

• nothing is more important than (my) children
• anyone who refuses to move is rude/incosiderate/cannot have children
• nobody else has issues more important than my issues
• other travellers will not help during an emergency because they are not nice people
• anyone who disagrees with my opinion is just not very nice at all
• the parents who post that they are ok with their children sitting away from them must be bad parents
• there are predators on the plane (I see that made it as early as page 5)
• air travel is very unsafe

I would say that that is an accurate summary.

And now we start the downward spiral where posters start taking little shots at each other, and pretty soon what was actually an informative thread at the start will be closed.