Sitting with kids on the plane

[scuba]

sorry I upset you scuba--I am just really curious. I have never before encoutnered someone who thinks it should be illegal for children under 18 (or any otehr arbitrary age old enough to do a decent number of things alone) to fly unaccompanied. I absolutely have no issue with YOU choosing not to place your child alone on a flight. I do have an issue with you wanting to prevent ME from doing the same I have to say, I am glad you do not make the rules

Earlier in the thread that is exactly what I said, that I most certainly need to come to grips with the practice, because you have the policy behind you. A word of caution though, I did find a few interesting stories, the Continental mishap where kids were put on the wrong plane and The alleged molestation accusation. I said earlier...you get alot of these complaints and the policy will most certainly be reviewed by someone.

I really don't have an issue with your child flying on my plane, really don't...provided he can 1.) behave 2.) not interfere with normal flight operations, after all we should hold him to the same standards as adults on planes 3.) save himself in the although rare event of an accident. If he or she cannot fulfill any one of those obligations then he shouldn't be allowed to fly.
despite being 37,27, 6, 11, 18 whatever age. thats the rule "I" would make. Anytime, all you have to do is pick up the paper, no matter how responsible you may think a child is, after seeing a tragic accident involving a minor...what do we do? where were the parents? thats what we say

This thread has a whole lot of things folks could take exception to. I think it appeared on page 3 or some page along time ago where katieeldr said that any responsible, reasonable adult/person would assist a child with a mask, I would say that if a child has a time with this then maybe he's the one that shouldn't be flying alone, I am sorry you had an issue with my proposed legislation, I am undert he belief that during an actual emergency, not some fake drill in the UK, but a real plane is on fire, i'm going to die event that a parentless minor might actually hinder evacuation procedures....I can't see how this even remotely fits under "Disney with families" anymore. I have easier times on my Hockey message boards

 

[maxiesmom]

Small children or children with disabilities should sit with their parents. Period. It's a safety issue. I can't think of any other venue where parents and children are forced apart.

And that adults will go on and on about how their "rights" supercede that of a 2, 3, 4, or even 7 year old is THE most entitled thing I continually read on the DISboards.

As is pointed out over and over, you don't get rights to a particular seat on a plane. Guess what. That includes ADULTS! Even frequent fliers. That being said, the youngest and most vulnerable among us should sit with their caregivers, for everyone's sake.

But if you choose not to pay to keep your family together, knowing full well you may end up seperated, why should everyone else have to move seats in order to accomodate your family? Talk about an entitled attitude! If it is truly a safety issue in your mind, then you need to bite the bullet and pay for seats.

I realize that sometimes things happen and seats get switched even when you pay for them. You can ask nicely for others to trade seats with you, but understand that no one owes you their seat. You can always disembark and take a later plane if sitting together is an absolute necessity.

There are many adults who post on here that truly have a need for the seat that they pay for. Just because they are an adult doesn't make their need any less valid, and they shouldn't be made to feel bad for not moving to accomodate others.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I really don't have an issue with your child flying on my plane, really don't...provided he can 1.) behave 2.) not interfere with normal flight operations, after all we should hold him to the same standards as adults on planes 3.) save himself in the although rare event of an accident. If he or she cannot fulfill any one of those obligations then he shouldn't be allowed to fly.

Can I assume you mean you do not have my child flying unaccompanied on the plane? Honestly I think points 1 and 2 should apply to EVERYONE always. Behave and not interfere with normal fligth operations. As far as saving themselves, well in MOST of those rare instances where fatal crashes occur there is really very little someone can do. You either live or you don't (RARE exceptions do exist--but they are they RARE exceptions to the norm on already RARE fligths) But, no I do not expect YOU, or anyone to have to help my child in an emergency. I agree that most people would anyway because it is human nature. But, it is not an obligation and often everyone would be safer if they just took care of themselves (children included).

I am undert he belief that during an actual emergency, not some fake drill in the UK, but a real plane is on fire, i'm going to die event that a parentless minor might actually hinder evacuation procedures....I can't see how this even remotely fits under "Disney with families" anymore. I have easier times on my Hockey message boards

No more so--and actually most likely much less so, than the man who walks with a cane, or the woman in a wheel chair, or the parents with 5 kids under 5 between them to juggle, the anxious person to full of Xanxax (so they can get through the flight) to react fast enough, the person who has had a few too many little bottles of alcohol in flight, etc.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Okay guys just for giggles suppose this mother and child were forced to be seperated on the plane. The 2 year old not in reach of the mother.

She actually would be required to wait to feed the child until after take off because she wouldn't have been able to leave her seat after they shut the cabin. Even if she had wanted to calm down this child she would of been too far away.

comments?

Comments: parent behaving so irresponsibly - which, really, is what was going on here - that the plane returned to the gate. The child didn't suddenly become hungry after boarding the plane, and her 'solution' of feeding him once the plane took off so his ears wouldn't hurt could have easily been foreseen and resolved with Earplanes, or heck - even just make a game out of swallowing.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Or a toddler having a tantrum. Unless we were on the plane, there is really no way to say exactly what the circumstances were.

My POINT is if its a requirement to keep children under control then its a requirement to have the responsible adult (i.e. their caregiver) next to them.

Actually, if someone would post the link to the original article - one of the many responses is from a passenger on that flight. So, yeah, anyone who investigates even a little knows there's more to the story and it doesn't favor the mother.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I'm still here NHdisneylover, mass transit? seriously does it REALLY matter what I think? almost everything i've said has been ripped apart in some form or fashion, But hey i'm a big boy, I can handle it, I seen far worse last night in my ER.

Turnaround being fair play and all that - you have been getting as good as you give. In fact, you've been getting proof or explanations when, in return, you backpedal or ignore questions.

18 was just a number, heck any kid 6 months or older can fly alone....I just don't care anymore, but 18 was just a number I picked, you have to be 18 to vote, you have to be 18 to pick up a gun and fight for our country, 18 to make medical decisions......

Eighteen is the age of legal adulthood. There IS no 'fixed' age for maturity.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Flying is certainly not routine, take an airbus load it with jet fuel, fly it to 35,000 feet, with thousands of moving parts that for whatever reason could go wrong at anytime. Alarmist? perhaps, but hopefully everyone out there in message board land can agree that there is a risk in getting on a plane, although small right?

Miniscule/negligible in comparison with any other form of transportation - or pretty much any action. I fall down stairs, I trip, I break things - yet I've NEVER been injured on an airplane.

 

[bavaria]

:
18 was just a number, heck any kid 6 months or older can fly alone....I just don't care anymore, but 18 was just a number I picked, you have to be 18 to vote, you have to be 18 to pick up a gun and fight for our country, 18 to make medical decisions......I for one feel that air travel is a huge deal, bigger than voting, maybe bigger than drinking? maybe bigger than driving.

Seriously? I agree that you may have a personal issue with flying that is colouring your response. A 14 or 15 year old behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle is in far more danger than a 14 or 15 year old on an airplane. That is why in most of the rest of the world one must be at least 18 years old in order to hold a driving permit.

Flying is certainly not equivalent to going to war. Hyperbole tends to lessen the argument, and I cannot find any rational argument on this thread which supports raising the age of UMs from 5 to 18.

 

[jodifla]

But if you choose not to pay to keep your family together, knowing full well you may end up seperated, why should everyone else have to move seats in order to accomodate your family? Talk about an entitled attitude! If it is truly a safety issue in your mind, then you need to bite the bullet and pay for seats.

I realize that sometimes things happen and seats get switched even when you pay for them. You can ask nicely for others to trade seats with you, but understand that no one owes you their seat. You can always disembark and take a later plane if sitting together is an absolute necessity.

There are many adults who post on here that truly have a need for the seat that they pay for. Just because they are an adult doesn't make their need any less valid, and they shouldn't be made to feel bad for not moving to accomodate others.

But again, adults are no more entitled to their seats on a plane than anybody else -- you are ONLY guaranteed a seat on the flight, and then barely that, and it's rather disturbing that they make the argument that their wants overshadow the needs of a small child. So they should move to accommodate a child being near a caregiver. And I don't buy most of the excuses adults have for wanting to be in a certain seat, although I'm sure some are valid.

On most airlines still, you DON'T pay for a seat. You just get the assignment for free.

 

[bavaria]

Ah, so the foreign woman ill and with leg pain from undergoing chemo should have moved out of the seat she paid for so that the child could play on the floor. Someone please tell Disneyadore that in case she missed it (or we'll just fill her in on the next night shift )

 

[crashbb]

The Canadian government has decided that children do not have anymore right to sit next to a caregiver than an adult has a right to sit in their seat.

They do insist that Canadian airlines provide a free seat next to a disabled passenger (i.e. the flight is entirely free, not that seat selection is free), but there is no such provision for children.

Interestingly, the government specifically states that obesity (in this context) is a disability and that airlines must provide a free second seat to a medically obese passenger (i.e. with a doctor's note). Just adding that in since there was some discussions about obese passengers earlier.

 

[scuba]

Turnaround being fair play and all that - you have been getting as good as you give. In fact, you've been getting proof or explanations when, in return, you backpedal or ignore questions.

Eighteen is the age of legal adulthood. There IS no 'fixed' age for maturity.

Backpedal, oh I didn't back pedal on the school bus issue, seatbelts....school bus, remember I need to know a few things about school buses. I also was fond about finding the one about continental putting kids on the wrong plane......I'm certain that wouldn't have bothered anyone of you advocating allowing someone else responsibility of your kids, and the molestation thing, if only her parent had been there, but no the parent is blaming the AIRLINE......

I would say i've been getting crushed 3-4 folks have jumped in, remember you all might think it's silly for me to advocate for legislation not allowing kids unsupervised on planes, I think its just as silly for a parent to stick a kid on a plane and send them thousands of miles away.......different strokes, It would only take one incident to maybe have you rethinking. again i'm not willing to take that chance albeit small....there really isn't that much more to say is there?...really?

 

[NHdisneylover]

and it's rather disturbing that they make the argument that their wants overshadow the needs of a small child. So they should move to accommodate a child being near a caregiver.

Much of the problem seems to stem from the fact that more and more parents want to define their "want" to be near their child as a child's "need" to have constant care. Sometimes a very young child does need that--but sometimes the parents go way overboard in defining "need."

 

[crashbb]

But again, adults are no more entitled to their seats on a plane than anybody else ...

And, according to you, they are LESS entitled than anyone with a child.

That would be where many of us disagree with you.

 

[maxiesmom]

Much of the problem seems to stem from the fact that more and more parents want to define their "want" to be near their child as a child's "need" to have constant care. Sometimes a very young child does need that--but sometimes the parents go way overboard in defining "need."

I think that is a great observation. Many adults confuse their wants for their child with a need.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Backpedal, oh I didn't back pedal on the school bus issue, seatbelts....school bus, remember I need to know a few things about school buses. I also was fond about finding the one about continental putting kids on the wrong plane......I'm certain that wouldn't have bothered anyone of you advocating allowing someone else responsibility of your kids, and the molestation thing, if only her parent had been there, but no the parent is blaming the AIRLINE......

I would say i've been getting crushed 3-4 folks have jumped in, remember you all might think it's silly for me to advocate for legislation not allowing kids unsupervised on planes, I think its just as silly for a parent to stick a kid on a plane and send them thousands of miles away.......different strokes, It would only take one incident to maybe have you rethinking. again i'm not willing to take that chance albeit small....there really isn't that much more to say is there?...really?

About the molestation; it is sad and scary. I have made sure DD and DS know what is innapropriate and that they can scream at the top of their lungs and kick and bite and all kinds of normally prohibited behaviour in such instances. As pointed out before, they are at MORE risk for molestation at a friend's house, school, karate class, church, etc than on that flight (where the perp could be easily observed and has not exit). I would not blame the airline--I would blame the molester for that.

About putting kids on the wrong plane: If I PAID the airline to get them to teh right place (and the UM fee is pretty steep) then yes I would blame the airline for not getting them to where they should be. DD certainly, and maybe DS (is tends to daydream) would have noticed ad kicked up a fuss if they had tried to misplace her though

 

[scuba]

About the molestation; it is sad and scary. I have made sure DD and DS know what is innapropriate and that they can scream at the top of their lungs and kick and bite and all kinds of normally prohibited behaviour in such instances. As pointed out before, they are at MORE risk for molestation at a friend's house, school, karate class, church, etc than on that flight (where the perp could be easily observed and has not exit). I would not blame the airline--I would blame the molester for that.

About putting kids on the wrong plane: If I PAID the airline to get them to teh right place (and the UM fee is pretty steep) then yes I would blame the airline for not getting them to where they should be. DD certainly, and maybe DS (is tends to daydream) would have noticed ad kicked up a fuss if they had tried to misplace her though

I'm getting that from you, I'm certain you would blame the perp, you seem like a straight shooter, but this MOM the one blaming the airlines, suppose she would be on here before the complaint talking about the wonders of parentless minors on a plane?......how about now?.......and about the minor flying alone fee, at least 2 or three folks here said their kid switched planes just fine...no problems, several stories I read last night said the fee was a fee, and not babysitting.........I also read on another message board folks saying that the airline workers are human and can and do make mistakes...wow, not with my kid....I would suppose that goes for Doctors and nurses as well.....I read where thousands of kids make it to there destinations ok, I also read they were not required to report problems.....double wow.

scan other message boards.....alot of folks feel the way I do, alot feel the way you do, be happy in the fact that you can still do it....after all i'm not the one making the rules right?

 

[Disneyadore]

Ah, so the foreign woman ill and with leg pain from undergoing chemo should have moved out of the seat she paid for so that the child could play on the floor. Someone please tell Disneyadore that in case she missed it (or we'll just fill her in on the next night shift )

I'M still here. Its 16.00 hours and I.m making Sauerkraut

But again, adults are no more entitled to their seats on a plane than anybody else -- you are ONLY guaranteed a seat on the flight, and then barely that, and it's rather disturbing that they make the argument that their wants overshadow the needs of a small child. So they should move to accommodate a child being near a caregiver. And I don't buy most of the excuses adults have for wanting to be in a certain seat, although I'm sure some are valid.

So in your world an extra paid seat is for every one. If you go to a film or theater and you end up way back were your child can not see the stage you just expect others that paid for front row to move.
After all you are only guaranteed an seat and the "needs" of a child should overrule the needs or payments of others.

 

[Disneyadore]

About the molestation; it is sad and scary. I have made sure DD and DS know what is innapropriate and that they can scream at the top of their lungs and kick and bite and all kinds of normally prohibited behaviour in such instances. As pointed out before, they are at MORE risk for molestation at a friend's house, school, karate class, church, etc than on that flight (where the perp could be easily observed and has not exit). I would not blame the airline--I would blame the molester for that.

I really don't see a molester or worse a ped..... buying a ticket for a few hundred dollars to get near a child.
The chance that he even comes close to a child is almost zero. In such a close environment hell would brake loose if the even tried.

 

[maxiesmom]

I'M still here. Its 16.00 hours and I.m making Sauerkraut

Oh yum!