Sick of the upper class bashing

[powellrj]

you must have missed some of the WIC, Food Stamp, government assistance threads then. Those threads get really nasty, very quickly and lets just say people aren't very kind and down right really rude and nasty.

As for McMansions, I can afford one, so they are definitely not for the rich. I use it all the time when we watch House Hunters. I see them as a cookie cutter house on a small lot in an addition. Around here in our McMansion additions most advertise no money down financing, and low monthly payments, so anyone with a decent job and credit can have one.

 

[daisax]

Gee, I like my Thomas Kincaid calendar and I'm not rich.

I was referring to the people who are duped into spending thousands of dollars for a Kincaid "painting" which is merely brush strokes superimposed on a print by an assembly line of workers.

They think they're getting an original painting by TK, but they're not.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I personally haven't seen a lot of bashing of the wealthy here. But I do use the term "McMansion" frequently and I don't apologize for it.

A McMansion doesn't refer to any large high dollar house. It's used specifically to identify a large ostentatious house that is crammed into a neighborhood where those homes are out of place.

For example the home next to me, a lovely 1000 sq ft two bedroom built in 1890 was torn down and replaced with a 5000 sq ft monstrosity. Where I used to look out on a beautiful garden with squirrels playing in 100 year old trees, I now see brick walls barely 5 feet from my home.

McMansion has nothing to do with bashing people because of their economic status but because of a lack of concern for the aesthetics and sensibility of the neighborhood. I moved into this neighborhood specifically because I loved all the old homes with unique designs and personality. If I wanted to live next to large homes that all looked exactly alike, I would have moved out to north Dallas.

Sorry to rant myself. But this is one subject that hits kinda close to home.

I have used the MCMansion term many times and in the same way as you describe it. To me, MCMansions are large homes that are built on small lots, and they destroy the character of a street/neighborhood.

 

[connorlevismom]

I think you're missing the point, which is that many of us don't consider them "nice." Strictly an opinion (although I think someone who wanted to could certainly make a very strong money-for-value argument.)

There are middle aged women who dress like 17 year old hoochies... THEY like the way they dress and THEY think they look fantastic. I reserve the right to make fun of them.

Right - I get you don't think they are nice. But why do you think that just because someone has it, they are just showing off? Maybe they actually do like it and that is why they have it? Maybe they could give a rats butt what anyone else thinks about it.

 

[CEDmom]

This is exactly what I am talking about. So you would not buy those things. But why call it a McMansion? What is that? It gives off the impression that those types of people are wrong or they live in a home they cannot afford. How do you know that? Do you drive by the "McMansions" and automatically think those things?

McMansion is a word in pop culture. Just like saying you Goggled something. It's a large cookie cutter house on a tiny plot of land. I see that as fact not opinion. I happen to know some lovely people who live in McMansions and I know some jerks that live in shacks (not really but it sounds good ).

And like another poster said I could buy a McMansion and drive a gas guzzling SUV but I don't.

 

[RNMOM]

Well, I will take a stab at it. We are middle/upper middle class and live within our means. What makes me irritated about people with a lot of disposable income is the amount of consumption. Just because you have the money to do so doesn't make it right to use up a lot of natural resources to make yourself a fancy big home or homes. I really don't get the "McMansion" craze. Why is it necessary to have 3-4-5-6 thousand square feet of home for a small family? I just shake my head at all the trees and other resources that are "wasted" IMHO to make those places. We live in a 1,700 sq. ft. home and it is too small for the 4 of us at times. When my sons move out on their own it will be more than adequate. We have managed to live here comfortably and will continue to do so.

So, If I had a lot of income I would probably build about a 2,500 sq.ft house with geothermal heat, solar panels and landscaping that is ecofriendly. I want to leave this planet in better shape than when I got here. We have small cars that are 4 and 7 yrs old but could afford new big cars. We are considering going down to 1 car for DH and I soon. I don't leave the house much anymore and what do I need a car for?

My big beef with upper class people is that they seem to want everyone to know they are upper class. Yes, there are many who do not but not around where we live.

 

[disneyfan67]

I think what disturbs a lot of people here is that once some folks reach that upper class-they lose the capacity to say "There but for the Grace of God go I".

I think my record of disliking the class warfare that goes on not only here, but around the country, is pretty clear. I have noticed though that quite a few people who "have it made" or considered "well off" forget how easy it is to fall back down that ladder that they climbed up. It seems like every discussion on some financial matter or health care involves stories of people working 4 jobs to get through college to afford their insurance. Or they have a brother in law who is lazy, didn't plan for any emergencies, etc, and expects the Government to pay his way through life, etc, etc. I never knew that there was that many "brother in laws" or "BIL" who were causing all these problems.

I have must of seen and participated on a dozen of these threads and never cease to be amazed by comments from both sides of this issue. The people who are considered "well off" don't do themselves any favors either with some of their comments. I have seen some pretty harsh replies that make me wonder how someone could be that mean and cruel in real life.

I'm very lucky that my wife and I have decent jobs and a good health care plan. I'm also aware that I have it good compared to others and I know full well, that I can be in their situation really quick. I get tired of people from both political parties, hiding behind campaign slogans and "catch phrases" when getting involved in certain discussions. Not everyone who's poor or less fortunate had it coming or deserved it and some seem to think that the only solution is to just take personal responsibility for their life's troubles. That attitude doesn't solve anything or provide help and just divides us even more. I see people barking about their taxes and what will happen if Hillary is elected. Guess what folks? Regardless of who's elected in 08, taxes are going up due to the major deficit were in. Thanks GWB for being a spending fool.

I have no idea how we as a nation, are going to afford all these different programs and fix the current problems we have? I also have no clue on how we can still afford to keep the spending the money that Iraq is costing us on a daily basis? I don't see any of the "my taxes are too high" people talk about the deficit and how it gets paid off. I don't want my taxes raised anymore than they are now, but the reality of the situation, tells me I have no choice. I would like to see some concrete answers and solutions to these problems, instead of all the bickering and some just posting political talking points.

 

[clarabelle]

Well, I will take a stab at it. We are middle/upper middle class and live within our means. What makes me irritated about people with a lot of disposable income is the amount of consumption. Just because you have the money to do so doesn't make it right to use up a lot of natural resources to make yourself a fancy big home or homes. I really don't get the "McMansion" craze. Why is it necessary to have 3-4-5-6 thousand square feet of home for a small family? I just shake my head at all the trees and other resources that are "wasted" IMHO to make those places. We live in a 1,700 sq. ft. home and it is too small for the 4 of us at times. When my sons move out on their own it will be more than adequate. We have managed to live here comfortably and will continue to do so.

So, If I had a lot of income I would probably build about a 2,500 sq.ft house with geothermal heat, solar panels and landscaping that is ecofriendly. I want to leave this planet in better shape than when I got here. We have small cars that are 4 and 7 yrs old but could afford new big cars. We are considering going down to 1 car for DH and I soon. I don't leave the house much anymore and what do I need a car for?

My big beef with upper class people is that they seem to want everyone to know they are upper class. Yes, there are many who do not but not around where we live.

It's not always that simple. If I lived in an area (around here) with small houses -I would be in a not so great school district. Also we are required to entertain for DH's work. Our parents (both sets) live out of town so we need to have room for them to stay over for a few days. I do like the idea of a "greener house" and think that is something to strive for.

 

[ford family]

This is exactly what I am talking about. So you would not buy those things. But why call it a McMansion? What is that? It gives off the impression that those types of people are wrong or they live in a home they cannot afford. How do you know that? Do you drive by the "McMansions" and automatically think those things?

I agree with your analysis. I have thought for some time that there is a creeping socialism in American politics that shows up clearly on these boards.

One of the many perspectives of American life that is always held in high regard throughout the world is its positive attitude to success.
In many countries, sadly including the UK nowadays, when someone of modest means sees an expensive car or an impressive house they often think "rich soandso, I haven't got that so I'll get theirs". In the US the attitude was always "I, too, can get that if I work hard enough".
But this seems to be changing. Part of it is, possibly, a growing under educated, under achieving, underclass that probably cannot break out of the poverty cycle as easily as previous generations, part of it is the "environmental" industry who seem to be turning old value relationships upside down and part of it could be the simple demographics of an increasingly urbanised society where conspicuous consumption is deemed vulgar as well as vulnerable.

This phenomenon shows up time and time again in posts, often as an aside unconnected with the actual thread.

ford family

 

[CheshireVal]

Here's a good example of the house I'm talking about. This sucker's going for $550k in my area. It's a nice house, but it belongs on a large lot. I happen to know this one is in a newish development that's being built right in the middle of an old neighborhood with much smaller houses. And look how close to the neighbors, too!!

 

[ducklite]

Actually I do live in a nice (modest) house and drive a nice (modest) car. There are some things about both that I would change, but even if I had all the money in the world, I'd never buy a gas guzzling SUV or a McMansion.

I've been accused of living in a "McMansion." Uh yeah, I don't even have 3000 s/f under air. We bought "smart"--the smallest house in the neighborhood of large homes. We've been bashed for driving a Prius. I guess it's too "yuppy"? I've been bashed for driving an "expensive sports car." Um, I drive a 26 mpg, $30K SKY. I'm looking at an SUV--a 34 mpg Saturn Vue Green Line. I'm sure someone will find something to bash me for on that one.

And anyway, the people who do have those things aren't necessarily "upper class." Lots of people own things they can't really afford.

And I've also been told I'm living beyond my means--a few days ago someone PM'ed me and told me that in so many words I was "white trash who took some crazy interest only, zero down, stated income mortgage, and people like me are causing all the problems in the mortgage industry today." Um right, I put 20% down (it began as an 80/3/18 and that 3% second is long ago PIF), full doc, 30 year fixed FNMA loan. Doesn't get more vanilla than that.

We pay our bills, save our money, and live within our means. For the past couple of years and moving forward next year we've been taking low-dough vacations to save for our dream vacation to Hawaii. This year we spent our vacation at Vero Beach on our DVC points--total bill was $210, and that included meals outside of the unit. We'll do the same thing next year, plus swap houses with friends who live in Key West for a long weekend--they want to take their kids to WDW, we want to stay in Key West, how great is that?!

But I guess because we work our butts off--we both work f/t and have a p/t source of income as well which puts us into the upper middle income ballpark, we are to be looked down on. Frankly after making sacrifices to get educations, working two jobs now, even though we save all the money we make at the second jobs towards retirement, I guess that makes us bad people. I think it makes us responsible people who are planning for thier future.

I have all the sympathy in the world for the people who truly seem to get knocked down everytime they turn around. I have no sympathy for people making $50K a year with $40K in credit card debt who will use the last $10K of available credit to finance a week long deluxe trip to WDW--even though thier kid needs braces and they are getting laid off in four months--then they whine about it when they can't pay their bills.

Anne

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'm very lucky that my wife and I have decent jobs and a good health care plan. I'm also aware that I have it good compared to others and I know full well, that I can be in their situation really quick. I get tired of people from both political parties, hiding behind campaign slogans and "catch phrases" when getting involved in certain discussions. Not everyone who's poor or less fortunate had it coming or deserved it and some seem to think that the only solution is to just take personal responsibility for their life's troubles. That attitude doesn't solve anything or provide help and just divides us even more. I see people barking about their taxes and what will happen if Hillary is elected. Guess what folks? Regardless of who's elected in 08, taxes are going up due to the major deficit were in. Thanks GWB for being a spending fool.

but don't you see? He's set it up perfectly so that whoever follows him will get blamed for it all. The majority of the people in this country have the attention span of a gnat and when taxes go up, everyone will blame the folks that raised them, not the fools that spent us into a situation where taxes HAD to be raised.

 

[RNMOM]

Clarabelle,

I respect that you have situations you need a larger home for but we all seem to be in this cookie cutter mode of what entertaining people means. I don't do a lot of it so maybe I am just dense. I guess if you have to have large dinner parties or such you will need the space to do that but so often it goes beyond that. I recently saw an article in our paper about builders making two master suites because that is what is expected now. I am alarmed that we just take all that for granted these days.

 

[ducklite]

but don't you see? He's set it up perfectly so that whoever follows him will get blamed for it all. The majority of the people in this country have the attention span of a gnat and when taxes go up, everyone will blame the folks that raised them, not the fools that spent us into a situation where taxes HAD to be raised.

Actually I don't think that GWB set it up--frankly he's not smart enough. it was his "advisor's" who did so. Either way the Republicans in power know there's zero chance of winning the election in 2008, so they are doing everything they can to be able to place the blame for the naitions woes on whever does get in.

Anne

 

[CheshireVal]

But I guess because we work our butts off--we both work f/t and have a p/t source of income as well which puts us into the upper middle income ballpark, we are to be looked down on. Frankly after making sacrifices to get educations, working two jobs now, even though we save all the money we make at the second jobs towards retirement, I guess that makes us bad people.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said that. Lots of people here "work their butts off" and plenty of people here are also upper middle income. But I don't see anyone being looked down on for it.

 

[connorlevismom]

I don't think anyone in this thread has said that. Lots of people here "work their butts off" and plenty of people here are also upper middle income. But I don't see anyone being looked down on for it.

Just as long as you don't live in a nice house and drive a nice car right?

 

[ducklite]

I don't think anyone in this thread has said that. Lots of people here "work their butts off" and plenty of people here are also upper middle income. But I don't see anyone being looked down on for it.

Not in this thread, but in other threads it's been made very clear that those of us (and I know there are a lot of us on the DIS) who have sacrificed to have an upper middle-class income must be jerks who ran over old ladies and babies in strollers to get to where we are in life.

I guess hard work and sacrifice don't count for much these days.

Anne

 

[CheshireVal]

Just as long as you don't live in a nice house and drive a nice car right?

I live in a nice house and drive a nice car. I don't live in a McMansion.

Nice is so subjective. Your vague definition of what constitutes "upper class" doesn't seem to be valid.

I'm so confused by this thread.

 

[ducklite]

Just as long as you don't live in a nice house and drive a nice car right?

Exactly. If you are upper middle class and drive a heap but spend $40K a year for vacations and live in a tenement, you're OK.

Anne

 

[CheshireVal]

Not in this thread, but in other threads it's been made very clear that those of us (and I know there are a lot of us on the DIS) who have sacrificed to have an upper middle-class income must be jerks who ran over old ladies and babies in strollers to get to where we are in life.

I guess hard work and sacrifice don't count for much these days.

Anne

I know the threads you're talking about. I guess I just don't see it that way. I think people's attitudes have a lot more to do with how they are perceived than simply their financial status.