Should siblings be legally allowed to marry?

Should siblings be legally allowed to marry?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Undecided


Results are only viewable after voting.
There are not only the birth defects like the two heads someone mentioned, but also the problem with the blood. I don't know the proper Englis word for it, but if there is not enough diversity in one's blood (parents out of two different families), you can get blood diseases where you don't stop bleeding once you start bleeding.

I think you're talking about hemophilia. This is a genetic disorder. It affects the blood, but I believe it is passed just like any other genetic disorder.
 
There's lots of things in this world that make me say, "ewwwww." I don't get to decide that no one else can do them. If it's two consenting adults and they are not infringing on the rights of anyone else who am I (or anyone else) to say they can't?


You're missing the point. No one is saying it should be against the law for siblings to cohabitate or whatever, it shouldn't be legally recognized as state sanctioned marriage.
 
But didnt some people once think that whites and blacks getting married was "ewwww!!"

What about the rights of the consensual loving brother and sister that wants to get married? Isnt it discrimnation to stop them from marrying? Are they not provided the same rights as everyone else under the 14th Amendment? :rolleyes:

I think the judicial branch should step in and remedy this situation because of all the "intolerance", "hate", and "bigotry" that exists against 2 loving people that want to get married and afforded the same rights as any other married couple in the US. The judicial system should save these brothers and sisters from the uneducated masses who are trying to impose their morals on others. :rolleyes1

Ok, then I think I should be able to marry my cat. She's old and needs medical attention.
 
Alright, then what about that guy out in Utah (I think) who has multiple wives, or any of the other members of that breakaway group of Mormons? Shouldn't he be given a break? After all, what he does in his bedroom is his own business, right? Just playing devils advocate here.

Again, no one is saying that you can't have multiple partners in a live in arrangement.

However, if the point being made in this thread is that two siblings should be allowed to LEGALLY marry, then ANY and ALL combinations of consenting adults should be as well.
 

no that's just nasty. As for Adam and Eve, that was in the beginning of time and their blood line was a lot stronger then. I would hate to see how a brother and sister's kids would come out. Imagine your kids having 2 parents, but only one set of grandparents.
 
I don't know if it's been brought up already, but the way I was taught when I was all religious and stuff was that Adam and Eve were closer to perfection than we are. They were created as perfect beings. Therefore, their children were closer to perfection and wouldn't create 2 headed children together. ;)

I voted no, because it's just ick. And besides, there's a reason that animals like cats usually end up hating their parents/offspring as they grow into adulthood. It's the natural line of defense against procreating with a relative. I did research on it awhile ago.
 
Marriage is intended to unite two unrelated people into a family. Siblings are already part of a family, hence no need to marry. As members of a family, siblings already enjoy many legal rights and considerations that might not be extended to unmarried/unrelated individuals who share a loving bond.

The risk of genetic defects is enourmous when closely related people reproduce. I recall a biology class in college where the professor said that there appears to be an innate repulsion to brother-sister incest, possibly stemming from an evolutionary mechanism to protect the genetic lineage.

As for Adam and Eve, I regard them as a myth and do not believe the story.
 
You're missing the point. No one is saying it should be against the law for siblings to cohabitate or whatever, it shouldn't be legally recognized as state sanctioned marriage.

Good thing it's not illegal to cohabitate - otherwise lots of families would be breaking the law right now.

There is no reason - or, no VALID reason - why the government should have a dog in this race. None. Same as homosexual marriage, same as interracial marriage, same as polygamy, etc etc etc. If two or more consenting adults make a decision freely and without coersion it is entirely their decision to make. No one else is being hurt by this decision, no one else's rights are being infringed upon. There is no reason some people (again, consenting adults) should be allowed to marry while others cannot.

As far as the genetic component - it's a red herring. Lots of people have known genetic markers for truly horrible diseases. They get married and have kids knowingly rolling the dice with each and every pregnancy. Should people have to pass a health screen to have kids? I don't think so. Saying hemophilia *MAY* result is not a reason to make it illegal for two adults to do as they please.

Another red herring - marrying pets/beatiality. Give me a break. Clearly this does not involve consenting ADULTS. Animal cruelty and abuse are illegal and with good reason.

If there is going to be a debate let's keep it on the up and up. The question is should two consenting adults be allowed to marry - genetic disposition should not come into play.
 
no that's just nasty. As for Adam and Eve, that was in the beginning of time and their blood line was a lot stronger then. I would hate to see how a brother and sister's kids would come out. Imagine your kids having 2 parents, but only one set of grandparents.

Not to start a religious debate but reading in the footnotes of my NIV bible:

"The wife Cain chose may have been one of his sisters or a niece. The human race was still genetically pure, and there was no fear of side effects from marrying relatives."

Then later on Lot's daughter's slept with him and became pregnant.(Genesis 19:30-38). The footnote explains:

" Why doesn't the bible openly condemn these sister's for what they did? In many cases, the Bible does not judge people for their actions. It simply reports the events. However, incest is clearly condemned in other parts of scripture"(Lev 18:6-18;20:11,12,17,19-20 and others).



I am by no means telling people what they should or should not do, that is between them and God. I was just stating biblical reference to the questions about Adam and Eve and incest.
 
On the show last night, they did say that

(1) Hemophelia is a trait that is passed through the mother's bloodline and the perpetuity of the disease through royal bloodlines had nothing to do with inbreeding, it was just passsed on through the mothers' bloodlines.

(2) the risk of genetic abnormalities for a baby which is a product of incest is only about 2% greater than the risk for a baby of non-realted parents.

I am not going to spend hours searching the web to verify these facts, b/c (a) I am at work and actually have a task at hand, (b) I only have a sister and could not breed with her anyway, and (c) I think the concept of incest is pretty skanky [but I also think the concept of people like Britney & Fed-Ex procreating is grody, so take that for what it is worth]. But if anyone can prove or disprove the facts thrown out last night, post it here and enlighten us all, please. THANKS!
 
I think the concept of incest is pretty skanky [but I also think the concept of people like Britney & Fed-Ex procreating is grody, so take that for what it is worth].

:lmao:

I just thought that was very funny.



I'm rather undecided on this one myself. I can see why the government wants us to procreate with non-family members, but if the risks of genetic abnormalities aren't significantly higher, then I can easily say it's none of my business.
 
I am one of the undecided votes. Here's why....

1. If they are full blood bro/sister raised together from birth NO!!!:scared1:

However.... what if the 2 people are older and not related. Their parents meet and marry making them step bro/sister. If there is an attraction at that point why shouldn't they be allowed to marry? Is it a common occurrence? Probably not but it could happen.


Also, there are alot of kids out there who don't know bio dad and there could be an outside chance that they meet and marry.

Just a thought.

And I know.... H--L could freeze over too.
 
Absolutely NOT!!!

Oh good Lord, has it really come to this? Where any relationship roll of the dice now calls for legitimacy from the state by way of marriage? Oh come on.

"Government stay out of my bedroom"- Um, as far as I know, every single adult in this nation is free to have a consentual sexual/intimate/romantic relationship with pretty much any other adult they choose. The government doesn't stop it. So, have at it. Enjoy your brother, sister, aunt, mother, father, uncle. All day/night long for all I care. But, that isn't what is being proposed here. We are talking about state sanctioned marriage.

All of a sudden we should feel an obligation to sanction and legitimize every form of relationship with marriage? Why?

This is worlds apart from homosexual marriage, but that and the ewww factor tends to be what makes some people a wee bit leery to stamp a big fat NO on it. I guess it is the result of the slippery slope argument. As a society we do have the right to say "NO, this is deemed immoral and not beneficial to society in any way, shape or form to legitimize it with the benefit of marriage." We have the right, as a nation, to decide that some things are immoral...not for religious reasons (athiests have morals, right?)...but just flat out not morally beneficial to society. Are we really saying there is no moral line society is allowed to have in place? I mean, that really is the issue. Anything and everything must be legitimized and legally supported by society? I don't think so.

Homosexuals can make the argument that they were born gay and being unable to marry a same sex partner limits their rights. I know many disagree with that, but it cannot be proven either way, so it is a valid argument. How can you apply any of that to familial marriage? It really can't be. Homosexuals can say "I am not wired to have an intimate relationship with the opposite sex", but there is no evidence that anyone on this earth is only wired to marry within their immediate family.

"What valid reason beyond the ick factor is there to deny this type of marriage?" How about the fact that there is a reasonable amount of risk that family members could be influenced from infancy into this sort of relationship? Manipulation by an parent or older sibling during childhood could be an essential brainwashing that leads to this sort of relationship. And if you allow siblings, why not parent/child...as long as the child has reached adulthood? How can sibling marriages be allowed and not parent/child marriages?

Family members, whether it be parents or siblings can be considered an authority influence enough to skew the idea of real consent for me to think it is not beneficial to society to legalize and legitimize immediate familial marriages.

As far as the rights gained by marriage. Most of the rights are already pretty much there anyways. Making medical decisions, inheritance. Next of kin, how convenient is that? The only one I can think of is medical insurance. And honestly, I think medical insurance should get to the point where coverage is based on the amount of people you want to put on it in your household, where you would just pay accordingly by amount of people covered (whole other debate)

Sheesh, it blows me away that there are really people who think this sort of thing should be legitimized, that do not see the potential for abuse and coercion. Yes, this can all happen anyways, that cannot be stopped. But, I have no interest in seeing society stamp a big nod of approval on it by sanctioning it with marriage.

And if there are so few who would even want to do this (surely), then there really isn't a need for it anyways or a need to make it more beneficial to engage in such a relationship.

As always, JMHO. (btw, I know this is only a debate and not a law about to be written...just debating the idea of it)

Thank God children are still considered lacking the ability to consent. Is that next? I know NAMBLA is fighting it already.


I think you make a good point about the potential for coercion if children are raised together with the idea that they are potential sex partners/spouses, and especially if parents look at children that way. This is something I stressed about why I am undecided. I think it is a real concern, yet I'm just not sure that giving legal benefits to people who do want to marry siblings (who, if the psychological stuff mentioned in this thread is true, will be almost exclusively siblings who were raised alone) is going to encourage anyone to accept incest as a possibility for themselves who wasn't already interested.

Many of your other arguments, however I don't agree with. You ask why we feel the need to sanction every relationshp with marriage. I wonder if sanctioning is really what we're doing (or what we should be doing) when we allow people to commit to a purely legal contract. If "sanction" was what was at issue, then wouldn't we have more restrictions on marriage? No more Vegas weddings. No more marriages for swingers. We nullify the marriages of couples in which there is physical abuse. I'm guessing most people don't sanction those relationships, but no one argues that such folks shouldn't be able to get married. Personally I have no need of the approval of the state or anyone else and I don't think of marriage as anything but a legal contract. If I wanted sanction, I could get that from a church without the legal contract. What I do need and want, though, are the over 1000 legal rights and benefits that come from marriage.

You bring up morality, but you don't say what is morally wrong with incest (apart from the coercion problem). It's very interesting actually. There have been some studies done in which people were asked about the moral status of various "eww" situations in which no one was harmed--adult sibling incestuous sex, the family cat gets run over and the family eats it for dinner, what if a man buys a frozen chicken and takes it home and has sex with it, etc. What they found was that most people were sure that these things were wrong, but they couldn't offer any good reason at all when interviewers talked to them. And yet, despite having no good reason at all, almost no one was willing to change their mind. Moral philosphers have concluded that what's happening in all of these cases is just "The Yuck Factor"--people have such a visceral knee jerk emotional/disgust reaction that they judge it to be obviously morally wrong, though they can't explain how there's any harm in it. (Of course, the coercion concern does show how there could be harm if as a society we started accepting or encouraging incestuous relationships. In the study the case was one in one time two adult siblings were alone camping and had sex once (and the female was infertile) and never did it again and neither was anything but happy afterwards.)

I'm also worried about how you distinguish gay marriage and incestuous marriages--that gay marriage ends up coming down to the argument of "I was born such that they could never love someone of the opposite sex." Well this is problematic for a couple of reasons. First gay people have different views about how their sexual orientation developed. No one thinks it was a choice (like, "do I want cheesecake or pie for dessert?") or anything that ridiculous. But, many people (I find women more than men) do not have some sense that it's just in their genes or that they always knew it since they were 3 or whatever. Second there are lots of people in same-sex relationships of whom it is not true that they can't love someone of the opposite-sex. I'm bisexual. It's possible I could love someone of the opposite-sex, but thus far I never have. I do love someone of the same-sex though and we want the same legal benefits straight people get. I don't think whether I should get those benefits is a matter of whether I could love someone of the opposite sex.

On the issue of the rights of marriage, you mention that close blood relatives would already have certain rights that non-related unmarried couples wouldn't have. This is true to some extent (though, if there are other living blood relatives, wouldn't they have just as much claim as the sibling-partner?), but there are a ton of rights that blood relatives don't have that married people do (in addition to medical insurance):
* Assumption of spouse's pension
* Automatic inheritance
* Automatic housing lease transfer
* Bereavement leave
* Burial/remains determination
* Child custody
* Crime victim recovery benefits
* Divorce protection
* Domestic violence protections
* Joint adoption and foster care
* Leave from work to care for a sick partner under family medical leave laws.
* Leave from work when a spouse gives birth or adopts under parental leave laws.
* Legal co-parenting (Insurance, School Records, Medical Decisions, etc)
* Medical decisions on behalf of spouse
* Visitation of spouse's children in the event of separation
* Wrongful death settlements
* The right to become a legal parent to a partner's child.

Personally I feel that the only reason I have heard anyone give so far that could make me think it might be okay to deny a couple these rights because they are related by blood is the concern about coercion.

What I would really prefer, however, is that we just opened up the legal benefits in a way that doesn't imply that people who make that contract with one another are romantically in love with one another or have sex with one another. Take a case where two sister's husbands die young and the sisters decide to move in together to raise their children together. They live together for 15 years while they raise their kids, but they enjoy none of the benefits of the legal contract they had with their husbands. Why shouldn't the state be giving people in those situations legal benefits that protect them and make it easier to raise their children together?
 
However, if the point being made in this thread is that two siblings should be allowed to LEGALLY marry, then ANY and ALL combinations of consenting adults should be as well.

I don't think that this necessarily follows. Marriage is a legal contract which gives a crapload of benefits to people. I think we have good reason to limit the number of people one can get those benefits for. For example, I don't think that an employer should have to pay the health insurance for a group marriage that involves 30 wives and 90 children because a husband works there :eek: . Things could also be very sticky regarding children--adoption, custody arrangments...how do you do that with 30 spouses? What about jointly following taxes--and we thought the current IRS forms are confusing! :lmao:

On the other hand, other rights such as hospital and prison visitation aren't going to be any problem at all.

So it might be that we would need different kinds of marriage contracts for those who want more than one spouse with some contracts offering more and some less benefits. I just don't think we could give every benefit to every spouse.
 
No way, too much risk of defects and its just plain gross.
 
However.... what if the 2 people are older and not related. Their parents meet and marry making them step bro/sister. If there is an attraction at that point why shouldn't they be allowed to marry?

They would be allowed to marry, as they are not biologically related.
 
"What valid reason beyond the ick factor is there to deny this type of marriage?" How about the fact that there is a reasonable amount of risk that family members could be influenced from infancy into this sort of relationship? Manipulation by an parent or older sibling during childhood could be an essential brainwashing that leads to this sort of relationship. And if you allow siblings, why not parent/child...as long as the child has reached adulthood? How can sibling marriages be allowed and not parent/child marriages?

Family members, whether it be parents or siblings can be considered an authority influence enough to skew the idea of real consent for me to think it is not beneficial to society to legalize and legitimize immediate familial marriages.

Sheesh, it blows me away that there are really people who think this sort of thing should be legitimized, that do not see the potential for abuse and coercion.

Amen!!! and Amen!!!

Where is that big applause smiley we used to have!

Thank You PoohandWendy for finally stating the obvious.

If Incest with a sibling is Okay, then Incest with a parent is Okay as well.
Both are equally deplorable.
I get so tired of the 'anything goes' crowd.

I agree with the earlier posters who say that anyone who wants to marry their sibling could benefit from some serious psychological evaluation and treatment.
 












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