Should resale owners pay lower dues?

[Drew729]

The balance of MS funding, for other benefit administration, comes from other sources and those sources pay for those components of MS that are not enjoyed by all or are not of benefit to all.

Thanks for the reply and I do understand better now.

So I assume that remaining balance for MS funding from other sources can be used at the discretion of management but since the budget does not break down those numbers as to how much and how it’s used that we can safely say that management would ensure the best interests of its members. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks!

 

[DonMacGregor]

So I assume that remaining balance for MS funding from other sources can be used at the discretion of management but since the budget does not break down those numbers as to how much and how it’s used that we can safely say that management would ensure the best interests of its members. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks!

I think some confusion lies in the fact that DVCM (Disney Vacation Management LLC) is it's own entity. DVC resort owners don't have an ownership interest in DVCM, we own a share of the resorts, and simply contract with DVCM to provide certain services as defined by the POS, just like a residential HOA pays a management company to perform certain services.

The component of those services that is paid for through Member Fees (dues) is clearly defined and is paid for through that 12.5% per point paid by resort owners. Those are the reservation systems and services at home resorts, and the linking of reservations at non-home resorts. You won't find any reference to the other funding in any resort budgets because it's not coming from the resorts and therefore is not required to be used in the best interest of the resorts.

Any other revenue raised by DVCM through breakage, cash rooms, direct sales revenue, etc. is not part of each resort's budget. It is revenue generated by DVCM as a separate entity. Resort owners have no say in how that revenue is spent, because it didn't come out of their pockets.

 

[Sandisw]

I think some confusion lies in the fact that DVCM (Disney Vacation Management LLC) is it's own entity. DVC resort owners don't have an ownership interest in DVCM, we own a share of the resorts, and simply contract with DVCM to provide certain services as defined by the POS, just like a residential HOA pays a management company to perform certain services.

The component of those services that is paid for through Member Fees (dues) is clearly defined and is paid for through that 12.5% per point paid by resort owners. Those are the reservation systems and services at home resorts, and the linking of reservations at non-home resorts. You won't find any reference to the other funding in any resort budgets because it's not coming from the resorts and therefore is not required to be used in the best interest of the resorts.

Any other revenue raised by DVCM through breakage, cash rooms, direct sales revenue, etc. is not part of each resort's budget. It is revenue generated by DVCM as a separate entity. Resort owners have no say in how that revenue is spent, because it didn't come out of their pockets.

No better explanation than this!

 

[Drew729]

Any other revenue raised by DVCM through breakage, cash rooms, direct sales revenue, etc. is not part of each resort's budget. It is revenue generated by DVCM as a separate entity. Resort owners have no say in how that revenue is spent, because it didn't come out of their pockets.

Thanks Don. Great point. I was speaking to the fact that if providing support of membership extras is not included in our dues and this is funded separately as laid out in the membership benefits and acknowledgments agreement then why don’t we see that as a line item showing compensation for such services going back into the operating budget?

 

[BillPA]

Disney is going to do what ever makes them the most money!!!
I think the horse is dead on this non-issue.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks Don. Great point. I was speaking to the fact that if providing support of membership extras is not included in our dues and this is funded separately as laid out in the membership benefits and acknowledgments agreement then why don’t we see that as a line item showing compensation for such services going back into the operating budget?

Because one has nothing to do with the other. Think of it this way. DVCM has more than one client who uses its services. It services owners and is paid a fee for that via dues.

Since we pay a set fee for what they are contracted to due, they are not required to detail it out.

What other business they perform on top of what they provide all owners is their own business. So, if they are providing a second set of service to some owners that is up to them.

 

[RoseGold]

The point is the whites are paying MS to book the blue extras.

And the Blues are paying for MS to staff the phones to handle our "glitch" on the website. I am now a VERY HEAVY white card phone user of MS, without my consent, because I'm not allowed to borrow points online, like plenty of White Cards.

Disney is going to do what ever makes them the most money!!!
I think the horse is dead on this non-issue.

The $$$ solution is to fix the website. If Bill fixed the website, the Blues could book Blue things and Whites could borrow points, and neither of us would have to spend hours on the phone.

This is one of the reasons I think the borrowing restriction is going to go. They can't figure out how to fix this "glitch" -- it's been months. The phone burden and pissed off Whites is a big drain on the system. I'm like an annoying clingy girlfriend calling all the time. So, the moral of the story is fix the website, happily ever after.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Thanks Don. Great point. I was speaking to the fact that if providing support of membership extras is not included in our dues and this is funded separately as laid out in the membership benefits and acknowledgments agreement then why don’t we see that as a line item showing compensation for such services going back into the operating budget?

It wouldn't come back into the operating budget of a resort (I assume you mean as a credit), as it wasn't generated by the resort. The budget is a balance sheet comprised of revenue components and cost components for the resort as a legal entity, separate from DVCM . Revenue that DVCM generates through streams not associated with any resort, stays with DVCM. For it to go back into the budget, the revenue would need to be generated by the resort, not DVCM.

Sandisw explains it pretty well.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

MS is paid based on a set percentage of the annual budget. If MS costs go down, Disney just keeps the "saved" money. No benefit to members. See my post, #8 above.

Okay, so perhaps that clears up why white carders do not pay for the blue card benefits, but….
Is it not correct that member services are paid by from the budget that is funded by member dues?

 

[DonMacGregor]

Okay, so perhaps that clears up why white carders do not pay for the blue card benefits, but….
Is it not correct that member services are paid by from the budget that is funded by member dues?

One more time: only those member services directly related to the resort room reservation system and inter-resort reservations are paid out of the member dues. Any and all member services not related to room reservations are funded by other revenue streams generated by DVCM and completely separate and unrelated to member dues.

I really don't see how we can all be more clear about this.

 

[Sandisw]

Okay, so perhaps that clears up why white carders do not pay for the blue card benefits, but….
Is it not correct that member services are paid by from the budget that is funded by member dues?

Dues pay SOME of the expenses that DVCM has but it is not the only revenue that they have.

Owners pay them 12.5% of the resort operating budget exclusive of taxes and capital reserves.

They use that money to provide us a service. But they are not required to justify where that money goes. They do not need to detail that out. If the money collected to manage the vacation plan is more than actual expenses, it’s DVCMs profit.

We have no say on how they develop their balance sheet.

So, in the end, they can use dues and whatever other revenue they get to provide whatever services they want to as many clients as they want.

Think of it this way. I pay Spectrum for a certain level of service and I know others who pay for a different level of service. However, the same reps talk to both of us.

Same situation here.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Dues pay SOME of the expenses that DVCM has but it is not the only revenue that they have.

Owners pay them 12.5% of the resort operating budget exclusive of taxes and capital reserves.

They use that money to provide us a service. But they are not required to justify where that money goes. They do not need to detail that out. If the money collected to manage the vacation plan is more than actual expenses, it’s DVCMs profit.

To be clear though (because you just know it's coming), DVCM is legally (contractually) obligated to provide specific services for that 12.5%. Also, the Association is legally obligated to spend that 12.5% ONLY on the defined services as identified by the POS.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Dues pay SOME of the expenses that DVCM has but it is not the only revenue that they have.

Owners pay them 12.5% of the resort operating budget exclusive of taxes and capital reserves.

They use that money to provide us a service. But they are not required to justify where that money goes. They do not need to detail that out. If the money collected to manage the vacation plan is more than actual expenses, it’s DVCMs profit.

We have no say on how they develop their balance sheet.

So, in the end, they can use dues and whatever other revenue they get to provide whatever services they want to as many clients as they want.

Think of it this way. I pay Spectrum for a certain level of service and I know others who pay for a different level of service. However, the same reps talk to both of us.

Same situation here.

Okay, so dues pay for a portion of MS. Curious what funds the other portion? And do you know the percentage that is funded by dues?

 

[DonMacGregor]

Okay, so dues pay for a portion of MS. Curious what funds the other portion? And do you know the percentage that is funded by dues?

It’s been stated over and over that the balance of DVCM’s funding comes from breakage, cash sales, and revenue from direct member point sales.

At the risk of being rude, do you even bother to read the responses to your questions that people take the time and effort to write?

DVCM doesn’t need to disclose anything to owners regarding those funds beyond that. It’s not member dues money, so they don’t need to disclose that to us. It’s possibly available through public financials, but you’d have to dig for that yourself.

 

[Sandisw]

Okay, so dues pay for a portion of MS. Curious what funds the other portion? And do you know the percentage that is funded by dues?

No, because DVCM is a private company who does not have to share its books with anyone.

The association has hired them to perform the services and that is all we have a say in. That they are providing the services they were hired to perform.

Of course, we know they have revenue beyond dues to function.

i think the confusion is that people see DVCM as being totaled funded by dues and that everything they do has to be explained. It only has to as it relates to its duties, which is in the contract. And the fee they are paid is 12.5%.

Even then, they do not need to itemize expenses because it’s a fixed fee.

 

[Sandisw]

To be clear though (because you just know it's coming), DVCM is legally (contractually) obligated to provide specific services for that 12.5%. Also, the Association is legally obligated to spend that 12.5% ONLY on the defined services as identified by the POS.

True. I think my point was though that they do not have to refund any money if expenses end up being less than what they were paid.

 

[DonMacGregor]

True. I think my point was though that they do not have to refund any money if expenses end up being less than what they were paid.

I understand, but when someone says:

Curious what funds the other portion?

when the question has been asked and answered several times, instead of saying "I understand it has been answered but I still don't understand it", you get the feeling none of those previous answers were read or given any attention.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I understand, but when someone says:


when the question has been asked and answered several times, instead of saying "I understand it has been answered but I still don't understand it", you get the feeling none of those previous answers were read or given any attention.

Well, I may have missed the previous answers, but I did not intentionally skip anything you have posted.
You did post a link that was blocked, so perhaps that was it.

Regardless, it has been made clear that member dues pay an unknown percentage of Member Services, and we don’t know where the other unknown percentage comes from.
I think I have that correct.

PS- I’m sorry I’m upsetting you so much.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Well, I may have missed the previous answers, but I did not intentionally skip anything you have posted.
You did post a link that was blocked, so perhaps that was it.

No. One link didn't work, you told me it didn't work, and I went to the effort to copy and paste the entire content of the link into a new post, which is still sitting there in it's entirety just like yesterday (post #46), including a quote of your request that I copy and paste it for you, so it would be perfectly clear and unambiguous that I was providing the specific copy and paste you requested. I even added some additional language to my response earlier today in an attempt to clarify things, on the odd chance that you would read what you asked me to provide to you

Someone else can play this game going forward.

 

[sethschroeder]

What about the extra people needed to respond to ROFR, intake questions on selling contracts, deal with a million questions from new resale owners, IT strain of setting up the same points 2/3/4/5 times, deal with contract flippers, deal with issues based on people having multiple use years, extra workload for members who transfer points between their resale contracts.

I could go on and on.

In the end no perfect answer and it's all a trade off. Just how I would like membership to own the resort restaurants as well (we own all other common areas but Disney holds this back since they can make more money off it while saddling us with all upkeep around it). I would also like to sell off the parking lots to a group who runs it for profit instead of paying for the upkeep.