Should military recruiters be allowed on public high school grounds?

pansmermaidzlagoon said:
Sure they do have a right to be there, but I do not like their tactics. They lie and make promises they can not keep - I feel they prey on young and uninformed. Locally, we have a peace/religious group which will go in at the same time to counter their actions - I think that is the fairest way - to present both sides. This is huge decision for a young person and should not be made based on just one side - again, given the tactics they will use.

Also, they have a right to contact your child through the mail, etc. YOU have a RIGHT to opt your child out of this. You can find out how through the "leave my child out" campaign at Working for Change or Working Assets - there are other campaigns as well - you just have to google it.

"peace/religious group which will go in at the same time to counter their actions " what does this mean? The only actions they take are to show the kids their options after high school. To be a member of the US military is a priveledge and one of the highest honors you can get. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't be the country we are now. They don't use tactics, they are just letting you have more detail into your future. Everyone I know has always gotten what was promised to them when they joined.
My own kids already plan on joining some service in the military and I largely encourage it. My oldest is 11 and even my 4 yr old knows it is what he will do. The military can do awesome things for you and can open up many doors that otherwise would not even be there. Be grateful that they can contact your kids and let them see inside their world.
 
I don't have a problem with them being allowed into the school during a career fair or such which is a time when career options are explored.

However my son's lunchroom is a closed campus. He HAS to be there during lunch, and if Army recruiters were to show up -- my son doesn't have the option of walking away from them. I can well remember my Junior and Senior years of High School and getting those phone calls from recruiters and I can remember the way the information was presented. They are salesmen, and like most salesmen, they know how to pitch their product in a certain light.

No, I really don't like them hounding my son (who is 15 years old) during the school day. I also think the ASVAB test should be an opt in thing and I don't like my son's school releasing his name, address (he is a minor), test scores or grades to any college, university, employer, OR the Armed Forces without the knowledge and consent of his parents.
 
For starters: (this is from Sojourners)

Leave my child alone!
In the small print of the Bush administration's No Child Left Behind Act, there is a clause that requires public high schools to provide the names, addresses, and home phone numbers of their students to the military. Unless families know about and are able to opt out of this clause, their children's personal information will be provided to recruiters. Last week, military recruiting was suspended for a day as recruiters received a much-needed ethics training. This followed allegations that recruiters have used deceptive and intimidating tactics - in one case, threatening a potential enlistee with arrest for backing out when he had the legal right to do so. But who will provide an ethics training for our lawmakers?




Note: "deceptive and intimidating". Deny if you want, but if it weren't happening there would be no need for ethics training. It is good news that they are trying to address it. Let's hope they are sincere.

Also, this whole thing is backwards - they should have to have parental permission TO CONTACT - they shouldn't be given the carte blanche right - which a parent then has to retract.

Edited to add: in my reading I found the ethics training day was in response to seven ongoing military investigations into such allegations, not just one.
 
One more: (from Nat'l School Board Assoc):

Some school leaders say military recruiters have too much access

By Ellie Ashford

3/15/05 -- While some school leaders believe the military offers just one more option for students to consider, others think recruiters are too aggressive and that students’ privacy should be better protected.

The No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) gives the armed services unprecedented access to potential recruits long before young men turn 18 and are required to register with the Selective Service.

With the escalating war in Iraq making it harder for the military to reach its personnel goals, high schools are seen as a rich recruiting ground, particularly schools where most students don’t plan to go to college.

NCLB requires access

Under NCLB, schools must give students’ names and phone numbers to the military unless students and their parents sign an opt-out form stating they don’t want the information given out. NCLB also requires schools to give recruiters the same access they provide to colleges and employers. Failure to comply can result in the loss of federal funds.

The opt-out forms often are buried in the voluminous amount of paperwork students and parents receive on the first day of school. The large majority of students don’t turn the forms in, so schools must give their directory information to recruiters.

To avoid that problem, the Fairport (N.Y.) Central School District sends a letter to all parents asking them if they want to opt in (and have their child’s contact information given to recruiters) or opt out. The district does not give out the information unless it receives a form back from parents stating they want the information given out.

“We have interpreted [the NCLB provision on recruiter access] and feel ours is the correct interpretation,” says Fairport school board Chair Christine Heisman. “We think this is absolutely the right way. We don’t want to hand over student information to anyone. The military wants special privileges.”

This policy has not discouraged students from seeking information about the military, Heisman says. This year, 71 parents signed the opt-in form, compared with 60 last year and 48 the year before. The high school has an enrollment of 1,600.

Nevertheless, “the military registered disappointment about our procedure,” Heisman says, noting that the Defense Department has requested a meeting to discuss the matter.

Heisman and Superintendent William Cala say they will resist any efforts to provide recruiters greater access to student directory information. “The Army wants to make it as difficult as possible to opt out,” Cala says. “They want to get kids to join with the least input from parents.”

“I expect it will be a battle,” Cala says. “It will not be a quiet affair. Our board is determined not to cave in.”

Legislation proposed

In response to school officials’ and students’ concerns, Rep. Mike Honda (D-Calif.) introduced the Student Privacy Protection Act in February. It would amend NCLB to prohibit military recruiters from contacting students unless they and their parents specifically opt in.

“I don’t believe successful military recruitment efforts require access to students’ personal information without their consent,” Honda says. “The right to divulge or not divulge personal information about minors should remain with the students and their parents.”

In 2003, the San Francisco school board passed a “student/parent privacy policy” establishing an opt-out policy on student directory information, but had to change to an opt-in policy after the U.S. Education Department threatened to cut off federal funding, says board President Eric Mar.

The school board also had to change its longstanding policy to not allow military recruiters in the schools.

“Military recruiters haven’t been very aggressive in San Francisco because they know of our efforts to protect privacy rights,” Mar says, and because of the strong antiwar sentiment in the city.

Mar says the district intends to “educate parents and students as much as possible about their privacy rights and alternatives to the military.” He would like to see the board create a task force to monitor “counter military recruiters,” such as the AmerBcan Friends Service Com.mittee and other peace groups on campus.

Aggressive tactics

Recruiters come to high schools armed with plenty of incentives, including an $8,000 signing bonus and the promise of college tuition and training for high-paying jobs.

They hold push-up contests to break the ice with students, glean information from yearbooks, target popular students, drive students home from school, and chaperone dances.

The Army’s $1.1 million aviation van travels to high schools across the country with cutting-edge flight simulators.

“Recruiters tend to gear their efforts to the working poor -- the students most vulnerable, with fewer options, and no money for college,” says Arlene Inouye, a speech teacher at Roosevelt High School in East Los Angeles and the coordinator of the Coalition Against Militarism in Our Schools.

In Los Angeles, “it’s pretty much up to administrators to determine whether to be friendly to recruiters or not,” Inouye says. At Roosevelt High, an enormous year-round school with 5,200 students, she says, recruiters can only come once every three or four months and are restricted to a lunch table.

But at other Los Angeles high schools, recruiters have more access, and have even been permitted to call students out of class. She also says recruiters target immigrants and offer them a faster track to citizenship. She says they’ve shown up at schools with fully equipped Humvees with music blasting and promotional materials in Spanish.

While her school has made an effort to publicize students’ rights to opt out, other schools have not done so. She tells of an incident in Los Angeles last fall when members of the Fairfax High School football team stormed the principals office because they were angry at not being told of their right to opt out.

Superintendent Cala says Fairport Senior High School used to give recruiters “quite liberal access” to the campus. But that changed after an incident where a Marine recruiter harassed a member of a student peace club and later left a threatening message on the student’s home phone. The recruiters behaved in a way that was “over the edge and way out of line,” he says. Now recruiters have to make an appointment before coming to the school.

Informed decision making

Jan Thaczyk, a counselor at Cape Cod Regional Technical High School in Massachusetts, says she has heard reports of recruiters seeking out lower-income students or using misleading tactics but hasn’t seen it at her school.

Recruiters must call ahead and make an appointment and are given a table in the cafeteria, she says. “Students who are interested can go to the table and get information. It’s optional and available.”

About 3 or 4 percent join the military every year, she says, and it hasn’t changed since the war began.

“My job, along with parents, is to explain to students the degree of obligation if you sign up,” Thaczyk says. “Students should never take that lightly in wartime or not.” If students need help making a decision, she invites parents and recruiters to a meeting to help sort through the information. She tells students, “If you feel you’re not ready, don’t sign.”

Kevin Quinn, the counselor at South Kingstown High School in Wakefield, R.I., who doesn’t oppose giving recruiters more access, says, “Counselors want students to look at all postsecondary options and make informed decisions.” Recruiters are in the school every week, he says, targeting seniors who haven’t applied to college.

Before NCLB, a school board policy prohibited administrators from giving student information to anyone, including recruiters, Quinn says.

“I don’t push the military. I do push for informed decisions,” Quinn says. His advice to students: “Do not sign until you’re positive. Do the homework and be informed. Get it in writing.”



Note: pulling individuals out of class, "harassed", "threatening messages" - it is widely known they exaggerate the amount of money recruits can look forward to making and the types of "exciting" positions that can be had - without mentioning the details of what it takes to actually make this top dollar amount and how few actually make the big bucks - and how long it takes, how few actually get the exciting positions....

the two easy to find examples I have provided are just the tip of the iceberg.

I am not saying keep them out - I am just saying: 1. allow parents and students to have the say on access 2) provide the other side of the issue - have someone present to make sure the info they are providing/the tactics they use are above reproach.

and for those who are interested in the opt out, but think their children are too young....in my reading, I found mention of military assemblies to get children interested - in elementary schools!!!!
 
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I have absolutely no problem with it, and in fact, if it weren't for military recruiting in high schools my husband would not be the man he is today. He wasn't really a troublemaker, just not interested in school and definitely not college bound. He met with those recruiters and finally realized there was something else he could aspire to after high school was over.

My husband joined the Marine Corps shortly after school and has been proudly serving ever since. Because of the military, he has learned more about discipline, respect, integrity and honor then he ever would have if he had just been left to "drift" after high school. He has also traveled all over the world and been to places I can only dream about.

There were many other kids in my high school with the same story. Some, like my husband, just lacked direction, while others were heading for some serious trouble if not for the military.
 
Every year an Opt-Out letter is sent home with out kids and check the the box not to give out any personal to military recruiters. For our kids the military is not an option.
 
Recruiters come to our school all the time. They come several times a year. I am not sure if they have sign-up sheets there or just information... I never stop to look. They just stand behind the table and talk to people that stop, though. Our school goes so far that we have a gym class once a year where they have someone in the military (not sure which branch) come in. The whole gym class we do things that the military does. There are more people in the nurse's office that day than any other day of the year. I didn't have to do it this year, but I think I do this year. YIKES!
 
I see no problem with it.

When I was in high school the recruiters came every week and part of our morning announcement was "military recruiters on campus today". They (the school) never forced us to talk to them and the recruiters stood around talking to each other unless approached.
 
bimshire said:
Every year an Opt-Out letter is sent home with out kids and check the the box not to give out any personal to military recruiters. For our kids the military is not an option.

Well no, not until they turn 18 and then you no longer get a say...
 
My DS didn't know what he wanted to do after high school. A recruiter came to his school and now he has served our country for over 2 years. He is an MP, intends to re-enlist and has a plan of what he wants to do with his life now. I honestly do not believe that would have happened if he never met the recruiter that day at school. So to all the recruiters out there....THANKS!!!
 


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