Should alimony be abolished?

[mhsjax]

I think all this 'I do more, no I do more' stuff is a pointless arguement. No one will every agree and I think it's irrelevant.

If 2 people divorce there is likely to be financial impact on both parties (working or non).

If 1 person in the marriage has not worked for more than a year or two for ANY REASON, it is likely that that person might need some maintenance support for a period of time until they are able to gain employment. Both parties likely agreed. The person who stayed home risked their employment prospects in the future and the working partner risked that they might have to help the other party if there is a divorce.

I don't think (ME, my opinion) that a SAP deserves anything just because of the fact that they stayed home but I can see how they might need help.

But what if the other parent "insisted" that one parent stayed home and gave up their job and then little mr or miss decided they want a divorce, should that sahp suffer because of the other parent required them to stay home and raise the kids? I have seen it happen.

 

[chobie]

I don't think (ME, my opinion) that a SAP deserves anything just because of the fact that they stayed home but I can see how they might need help.

I disagree. I think they deserve payment for having made their spouse's life easier for all those years.

 

[mjkacmom]

Well no working mom should resent a SAHM. I envy them lol. That's what I was trying to get at. I feel some SAHM exaggerate things. It is easier to be a SAHM. And I know that because I have been at home. They should be happy with their decision and thankful for the opportunity and not feel the need to justify what they do all day.

When all of my kids were little, I would've worked for childcare. Seriously, it was the hardest thing I ever did. I would've scrubbed toilets to have a break from the constant madness. My DH was great - he said he wouldn't be able to do it in a million years, and told me how amazing I was.

I would fantasize about using the bathroom for as long as I wanted, quiet, a lunch break, not having to physically transfer kids all day long (carseats, strollers, up and down, up and down), dozens of diapers, just finishing cleaning up a meal before making a new one, shoveling the tide...

My kids are in school now, and I EARNED this!

 

[wdwmom3]

I disagree. I think they deserve payment for having made their spouse's life easier for all those years.

See I don't think people should be paid for anything they did. The same could be said for a working spouse who does a lot for the other. Parents who give up a career should be entitled to some financial help while they re-establish themselves in the work force though. I think a SAHM or SAHD should be entitled to alimony for a short time for that reason only. Not for payment for the things they have done.

 

[jrmasm]

But what if the other parent "insisted" that one parent stayed home and gave up their job and then little mr or miss decided they want a divorce, should that sahp suffer because of the other parent required them to stay home and raise the kids? I have seen it happen.

The decision was made jointly, both should have to live with the consequences.

 

[jrmasm]

I disagree. I think they deserve payment for having made their spouse's life easier for all those years.

So the working parent, with the more flexible schedule, who did more 'after hours' deserves payment in the form of alimony?

 

[Tiggeroo]

I have done both. I believe SAHM's are much less likely to end a marriage, unless there is something very wrong. They know what financial position they are in. Frequently I see SAHM's end up divorced because the husband got tired of the marriage and has a new gf. If both spouses agree for one to stay home home they have to agree that unless that spouse just decides they are bored and walks away from the marriage or engages in adultery, abuse or addiction they will receive financial help if the marriage ends. What do you suggest a woman should do if both partners decide it is best for her to leave her career and stay home and care for children for 15 years or more and then the husband gets bored and leaves her. Her earnings will never catch up. She will likely never be able to purchase a home or buy out half of their existing home. Should her children feel the need to help with her support in gratitude? Perhaps because life is more complicated these things should be put in writing if a spouse decides to stay home. I have seen it both ways. I know two women who are paying alimony because the men were SAHD's. My mother is in her 60's. She has stayed home all her life and they both wanted it that way. If my father had left her any time in the past 20 years or more there is no way she would have been able to create the same type of career he had.

 

[mhsjax]

The decision was made jointly, both should have to live with the consequences.

What decision, I thought we were talking hypothetical situations here. By the way, It is very generous of you to see how the SAHP "might need help". WOW. I am thinking that maybe you or someone close to you got ripped off in paying alimony. And yes, some do take advantage, but you seem to be way beyond that. Maybe I am wrong.

And from another post, you keep stating things that apply to a "real situation" or am I wrong? You stated something about the parent with the more flexible schedule and that parent doing more. YOu seem to be talking about a "real" person .

 

[EnduringWone]

Well no working mom should resent a SAHM. I envy them lol. That's what I was trying to get at. I feel some SAHM exaggerate things. It is easier to be a SAHM. And I know that because I have been at home. They should be happy with their decision and thankful for the opportunity and not feel the need to justify what they do all day.

It is NOT easier and I have been both too.

They both have their pluses and their minuses.

 

[SLP958]

I work full time at a very demanding job and have been blessed to take a year off when each of my 3 kids were born. I'm sorry to the SAHM moms out there but being a working mom is A LOT harder. I don't have any less cleaning, cooking, driving kids to activities, or running other errands then I did when I was off work. I have to get all that stuff done plus work a full day. I'm lucky to get 20 mins a day to myself and more then 5 hours of sleep a night. I still volunteer and do things with the kids school. Yes someone else is looking after my kids during the day but all that means is I don't have to entertain them during those hours. Everything else still has to get done once I get home. I loved being at home and sorry but hanging out with my kids never felt like work.

I'm really tired of SAHM getting so defensive. Yes you work but working moms have a lot more on their plate. I almost felt spoiled staying home with my kids. I wish SAHM would recognize what a great thing they have and stop making it sound so hard. Because unless you have a special needs child or 10 kids it's really not.

Exactly!

I had to stay home with my son for a time because of some health issues.

It was cake compared to working full time.

I think this is the root of the mommy wars. Stay at home moms are very defensive and braggart like about what they do while working moms know they do the exact same things. No one begrudges you staying home, just do make out like you have it so much harder or are more present for your kids than anyone else. Food for thought, maybe if you feel looked down on, you are bringing it on yourselves.

I am out if this discussion as I have stated my point. Will agree to disagree.

 

[jrmasm]

What decision, I thought we were talking hypothetical situations here. By the way, It is very generous of you to see how the SAHP "might need help". WOW. I am thinking that maybe you or someone close to you got ripped off in paying alimony. And yes, some do take advantage, but you seem to be way beyond that. Maybe I am wrong.

And from another post, you keep stating things that apply to a "real situation" or am I wrong? You stated something about the parent with the more flexible schedule and that parent doing more. YOu seem to be talking about a "real" person .

The decision not too work is made jointly by both parties in the marriage.

And you are 100% wrong. I honestly cannot think of a single person that I know that pays, or receives alimony.

And the 'might need' meant if the person who stayed at home is unable to immediately find employment. There are likely some people who could reenter the workforce easily and for others, it's not so easy.

 

[Planogirl]

I thought that staying home with my son was easier than being employed too but that was only from my perspective. I only had one child and we lived out in the middle of nowhere so there wasn't much to do. The boredom could be unpleasant but it wasn't "hard".

I see so many Moms (and Dads) that stay home and have so much to do. I would say that the difficulty varies depending on responsibilities and that person's own mindset so no "Mommy wars" from me.

 

[Lolsmum]

I know there are some working moms who look down on SAHMs and some SAHMs who look down on working moms. That isn't my issue. It's theirs.

I do get annoyed at the idea that staying home just means changing a few more diapers. It really doesn't. It could, I suppose, but for most SAHPs it's a lot more than that. I would not want anyone caring for my child 40 hours a week who views it as just changing a few diapers and getting on with housework and tv. I think childcare and education are desperately undervalued in society no matter who is doing it, while also believing it is an incredibly important job.

My husband's career has benefitted from me staying home. Mine has not. We both made the decision and both should pay for it if the need arises.

 

[mckelvey72]

I have one thing to say in regards to SAHM thinking us working moms look down on them......I know many SAHM and am no longer friends with most of them cause they looked down on ME! I don't care about my kid cause i choose to work. I am letting my child down cause i am not there 24 hours a day etc etc.

So it goes both ways. I respect (and sometimes envy) the SAHM however I am the type of person that wants my own money, wants to be able to afford to take my kids to Disney etc. I couldn't do that if I stayed at home. I would have to live very frugally and I am not willing to do that. I am lucky in that I have had family that could watch my son when he was young and i am lucky that my mom doesn't work and can be my before and after care. I am also lucky that I can work from home and have a flexible work schedule.

and for those that comment that the hubby doens't do their share of the work...sometimes it doesn't work out that way. My hubby is a contractor...when our son was small I would do the nighttime because my theory was this..if i am sleepy while sitting at a computer it is OK...if he is sleepy while standing on a roof we could have problems. I ALSO take care fo the "inside" work. I do this because he PHYSICALLY has a demanding job and i don't. So it doesn't bother me. It isn't that he is deadbeat or lazy etc.

And lastly, I am divorced and as i stated...I choose to work for serveral reasons...and one being...if hubby decided to up and leave...guess what i can take care of myself and my son. I would not WANT his money or anything from him if he decided he no longer loved me.

So we are all different...am I right? For me, yes. Is the SAHM mom right, Yes for her she is. Is the way I look at alimony (meaning I wouldn't want his money)...yes it is right for me. But that isn't to say that the SAHM shouldn't get it.

Each situation is different and SAHM judge us working moms as much as us working moms judge the SAHM. I am so sick of being told I don't love my kid as much because i choose to work. My son is just as happy as yours. There are benefits to 2 working parents and there are benefits to one parent staying at home.

Believe me...my mom didn't work and I LOVED not having to get up in the morning on summers, being lazy in the pool etc. But that choice came at a slight cost and that was money...we couldn't afford to go on vacations, have the Nike shoes etc. And I hated it back then but I do respect her decision now. As I said, I can work from home so maybe I have the best of both worlds..if my son is sick I can be here with him. When he had his appendix removed at 3 years old I was able to be with him at home for a week AND still work AND still cook, clean etc. So we are all different.

OK..end of rant. Back to working...at home in my living room...and throwing in a load of laundry every hour.

 

[chobie]

So the working parent, with the more flexible schedule, who did more 'after hours' deserves payment in the form of alimony?

No, you can't account for every minute of a relationship when deciding who gets what, obviously, that would be absurd.

But when one parent gave up their future ability to make money, based on a mutual decision, which benefited both parents, then that patent deserves some alimony.

 

[chobie]

I have one thing to say in regards to SAHM thinking us working moms look down on them......I know many SAHM and am no longer friends with most of them cause they looked down on ME! I don't care about my kid cause i choose to work. I am letting my child down cause i am not there 24 hours a day etc etc.

So it goes both ways. I respect (and sometimes envy) the SAHM however I am the type of person that wants my own money, wants to be able to afford to take my kids to Disney etc. I couldn't do that if I stayed at home. I would have to live very frugally and I am not willing to do that. I am lucky in that I have had family that could watch my son when he was young and i am lucky that my mom doesn't work and can be my before and after care. I am also lucky that I can work from home and have a flexible work schedule.

and for those that comment that the hubby doens't do their share of the work...sometimes it doesn't work out that way. My hubby is a contractor...when our son was small I would do the nighttime because my theory was this..if i am sleepy while sitting at a computer it is OK...if he is sleepy while standing on a roof we could have problems. I ALSO take care fo the "inside" work. I do this because he PHYSICALLY has a demanding job and i don't. So it doesn't bother me. It isn't that he is deadbeat or lazy etc.

And lastly, I am divorced and as i stated...I choose to work for serveral reasons...and one being...if hubby decided to up and leave...guess what i can take care of myself and my son. I would not WANT his money or anything from him if he decided he no longer loved me.

So we are all different...am I right? For me, yes. Is the SAHM mom right, Yes for her she is. Is the way I look at alimony (meaning I wouldn't want his money)...yes it is right for me. But that isn't to say that the SAHM shouldn't get it.

Each situation is different and SAHM judge us working moms as much as us working moms judge the SAHM. I am so sick of being told I don't love my kid as much because i choose to work. My son is just as happy as yours. There are benefits to 2 working parents and there are benefits to one parent staying at home.

Believe me...my mom didn't work and I LOVED not having to get up in the morning on summers, being lazy in the pool etc. But that choice came at a slight cost and that was money...we couldn't afford to go on vacations, have the Nike shoes etc. And I hated it back then but I do respect her decision now. As I said, I can work from home so maybe I have the best of both worlds..if my son is sick I can be here with him. When he had his appendix removed at 3 years old I was able to be with him at home for a week AND still work AND still cook, clean etc. So we are all different.

OK..end of rant. Back to working...at home in my living room...and throwing in a load of laundry every hour.

Both my husband and I have mentally, but not physically, exhausting jobs, the work at home is split 50-50. Sometimes that means he's outside cleaning the pool, and I'm inside doing laundry. But no person sits around or does leisure activity while the other person works,

I do know women, IRL, who work as many or more hours outside the home as their husbands, yet still do way more than their share of the house work and child work. Quite frankly, I think that's the norm. Women are expected to take care of the house and kids regardless of their job situation and if their husband does do a load of laundry here or there he's "THE BEST DH IN THE WORLD"!
And this is where I believe the resentment from some working moms comes from.

I simply don't believe every working mom who has ever made the comment "I do everything a SAHM does plus I work a 40 a week job" has a husband who works drastically more hours than they do.

That being said, and since I've done both, again I'll reiterate that SAHMS tend to exaggerate what they do and some say hateful condescending comments to working moms (paying someone to "raise" your children).

I was never that way. I personally only experienced judgment for not working. Which is why I tend to defend the SAHMs, but I don't agree that they have it just as hard.

 

[jrmasm]

No, you can't account for every minute of a relationship when deciding who gets what, obviously, that would be absurd.

But when one parent gave up their future ability to make money, based on a mutual decision, which benefited both parents, then that patent deserves some alimony.

And we're never going to agree.

 

[mhsjax]

The decision not too work is made jointly by both parties in the marriage.

And you are 100% wrong. I honestly cannot think of a single person that I know that pays, or receives alimony.

And the 'might need' meant if the person who stayed at home is unable to immediately find employment. There are likely some people who could reenter the workforce easily and for others, it's not so easy.

That is fine if I am wrong, I just thought that it seemed as though you knew a specific couple.

 

[Colleen27]

I work full time at a very demanding job and have been blessed to take a year off when each of my 3 kids were born. I'm sorry to the SAHM moms out there but being a working mom is A LOT harder. I don't have any less cleaning, cooking, driving kids to activities, or running other errands then I did when I was off work. I have to get all that stuff done plus work a full day. I'm lucky to get 20 mins a day to myself and more then 5 hours of sleep a night. I still volunteer and do things with the kids school. Yes someone else is looking after my kids during the day but all that means is I don't have to entertain them during those hours. Everything else still has to get done once I get home. I loved being at home and sorry but hanging out with my kids never felt like work.

I'm really tired of SAHM getting so defensive. Yes you work but working moms have a lot more on their plate. I almost felt spoiled staying home with my kids. I wish SAHM would recognize what a great thing they have and stop making it sound so hard. Because unless you have a special needs child or 10 kids it's really not.

Why would you still be doing everything and working full time? I've done the working mom thing. I've done the SAHM thing. I've done a few in-between things too (like the full time college student/mom thing, and the work from home mom thing). You know what? I don't think any one is unequivocably harder than the others. When I worked DH did more around the house and we set the bar lower for some things (ate out rather than cooking more often, kept the house tidy but did the deep-cleaning less often, volunteered less, didn't bake from scratch or grow veggies or things like that, etc). I certainly wasn't working 40 hours, commuting 10, and doing everything I do now - there quite simply aren't enough hours in the day for that. And I think no matter what your responsibilities are - at work, at home, in a marriage, as a parent, in any role you have in life - it will sometimes feel like work. You'll have days where you'd rather sleep in, when you just want to call in sick or order pizza instead of cooking dinner, when you feel like you're going to scream if you get another "urgent" e-mail or step on another Lego, whatever. Life is work. Parenting is work. Working is work. Marriage is work. Nothing is easy-fun-playtime all the time. But a lot of people seem to think staying home is for some reason.

 

[Colleen27]

See you are assuming working moms are looking down at you. Which I'm pretty sure most of them are not.

Actually, there's no assumption needed. I think any woman who has stayed home beyond the infant/toddler stage has heard enough comments to make it very clear. I know I have... The "wasting your talent/education", "don't you want more than just being a mommy", "what do you do all day", etc. Heck, you only have to go back a page or two to see that SAHMs "just change a few more diapers". And yet, every working mother I know agonized over choosing the right child care provider, so clearly on some level they're aware that there's more to taking care of a small child than just changing diapers and filling bottles. Many of them would only consider caregivers with early childhood degrees and pay through the nose for a good program, but still don't connect all of the things a professional caregiver does with how a SAHM would spend her days.