Should AHnold appologize?

[year2late]

The bigger context is that CA is still in crisis. He ran with promises of bringing the parties together to solve the problems of this state.

His comment did not help serve that purpose --- it certainly did not inspire.

I don't expect him to apologize, but I expect him to do anything he can to encourage two polarized groups to work together.

I personally think the comment was funny, but I am not in charge of slicing and dicing a budget , either.

 

[beattyfamily]

I know Whoopi isn't a politician and so it's not exactly the same but she was at a Democratic Fund Raiser with both Kerry and Edwards present and I just wonder why no one seems to care what they all were saying (especially Whoopi) about Bush and why isn't there a long debate thread on whether she/they should apologize or maybe Kerry and Edwards can say it was wrong and inappropriate??

It's so disgusting what people get away with calling Bush but Arnold makes a funny inside joke and it's all over the news and being debate to no end for 5 days now.

Why wasn't what happened at the Fund raiser all over the news?

Why is comparing Bush to Hitler, Osama or Saddam by Kerry himself ok? I think that's much harsher than "girly man".

Sickening.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
No, I'm not trying to bait *you* specifically. I just thought I'd throw out an example of what *I* felt was an insulting and inappropriate characterization. But there is CLEARLY a double standard when it comes to what one side(Dems) can say with impunity while the other side(Reps) get's raked over the coals for less harsh comments.

You are a good example of what I mean.

You said "If I were a women in the Calif. Legislature, I'd sure want an apology. The phrase assumes that an effective legislator is not only a manly man, but a man period. No one finds that's insulting?"

Which means to me that you find this comment insulting and would except an apology but to characterize Bush as Hitler is just an inappropriate historical analogy.

See what I mean?

But I also said that I could understand how it was insulting to a Bush supporter. And I also didn't say that *everyone* should be insulted by the comment; I asked a question about who was insulted.

I tend to be insulted by things that offend me personally, that I have an immediate gut reaction to. I am a woman, and I grew up in a region of the South were men regularly called women "girls" and I hated it. There's a history in the South of using diminutive terms, calling a woman a "girl" or an African-American man a "boy," and its all about power relationships.

The reason why the Bush-Hitler analogy doesn't insult me is because I don't take it personally. If I were Jewish, however, perhaps I would take it personally and find it very insulting.

If you really want me to find it insulting, help me understand how it affects my personal politics. Until then, I just continue to think its a really bad analogy, one that I do not support and one that's obviously meant to stir up unnecessary trouble. So I agree with faithinkarma- both sides need to stop the name calling.

 

[wvrevy]

1 - Why should ahnold apologize ? The people knew he was an imature, crass jerk when they voted for him, and now they're surprised ?

2 - I've heard plenty of name calling from the extreme left, but I've not heard Kerry call Bush any names. Care to enlighten me as to when that happened ? Meanwhile, the actual repuglican party is putting out bumper stickers with bin ladin and Kerry's name on them ? If the DNC did that with Shrub and Hitler you guys would be ready to firebomb their headquarters, but it is ok for the RNC to do it ? Talk about hypocrisy.

3 - While Whoopi's comments may not have been to your comedic tastes, she's been making the same kinds of jokes (as have a lot of other comedians) about the sitting president for years. Ever since Lenny Bruce there have been comics making crude comments about the president, and frankly the right look like a bunch of babies running to teacher because the mean lady called their club leader a nasty name. SHE'S A COMEDIAN...Is that really that hard to understand ?

 

[faithinkarma]

Why is comparing Bush to Hitler, Osama or Saddam by Kerry himself ok? I think that's much harsher than "girly man".

Just so we are clear here, it was the Bush campaign that was running the comparison to Hitler ad. It was on their internet site and was a series of images painting the democrats as pessimists. There were flashes of Hitler inserted, and frankly, I did not get the message they were trying to convey. But the Bush campaign did remove it after complaints.http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/4523_53.htm

And yes, before anyone jumps in, the original Hitler association was at the move on site. But it was submitted during a contest, and was removed very quickly. And of course, the DNC cannot be held responsible for what move on does.

 

[rcyannacci]

wvrevy and faithinkarma have explained it so much better than I did. I defer to their comments.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
and the bumper stickers that the RNC are handing out saying " Kerry is Bin Laden's man" are also shameful

the point being that all sides are guilty and they all need to stop NOW

The bumper sticker is apparently not from the RNC but a local thing in Kentucky, this article says:

Jack Richardson, chairman of the Jefferson County Republican Party, said yesterday that his office is out of the stickers and will not be distributing any more.

But he said he is still searching for whoever printed the stickers because he has been "flooded" with requests for them. If he determines who printed them, he said, he will put his callers in contact with them.

Richardson said about 40 to 50 of the stickers appeared at the GOP headquarters on Muhammad Ali Boulevard last week, but he doesn't know who placed them on a table with other political stickers.

http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2004/07/20ky/B1-third07200-4931.html

[But if you have anything that shows that the RNC is printing and distributing them please post because I'm willing to look at both sides. Thanks.

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by wvrevy
2 - I've heard plenty of name calling from the extreme left, but I've not heard Kerry call Bush any names.

3 - While Whoopi's comments may not have been to your comedic tastes, she's been making the same kinds of jokes (as have a lot of other comedians) about the sitting president for years. Ever since Lenny Bruce there have been comics making crude comments about the president, and frankly the right look like a bunch of babies running to teacher because the mean lady called their club leader a nasty name. SHE'S A COMEDIAN...Is that really that hard to understand ?

Kerry compared Bush to Saddam when he first started his campaign for one example.

What part of this don't you understand? Whoopi was at the Democratic Fund Raiser with Kerry and Edwards there!! It's inappropriate and disgusting that they condoned what she (and others that night) said! It's so simple.

If a Republican celebrity at a Republican Fund raiser (with Bush present) compared Kerry to a private part, there certainly would be a huge outcry...just look at what's happened to Arnold over 'girly men'.

 

[faithinkarma]

Jack Richardson, chairman of the Jefferson County Republican Party, said yesterday that his office is out of the stickers and will not be distributing any more.

Interesting how placement of words can change a story. I was unable to access your link, but did find

Jefferson County GOP chairman Jack Richardson IV said the stickers were so popular that GOP headquarters ran out Friday. He won't distribute more, but is trying to locate their source for those who want them. "I believe in the question this bumper sticker raises," Richardson said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/ap/20040720/ap_on_el_ge/brf_bumper_sticker

 

[faithinkarma]

What part of this don't you understand? Whoopi was at the Democratic Fund Raiser with Kerry and Edwards there!! It's inappropriate and disgusting that they condoned what she (and others that night) said! It's so simple.

At least Kerry has not said " I'm glad it was said. It felt good ! And Bush is a very very mean man and deserved it". Amazing how some see no difference in drawing a line for one person and giving the other a pass.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by beattyfamily
Kerry compared Bush to Saddam when he first started his campaign for one example.

When ? I've yet to actually see a quote where Kerry said any such thing. It's easy to sit back and say he did...not so much to actually prove it.

Originally posted by beattyfamily
What part of this don't you understand? Whoopi was at the Democratic Fund Raiser with Kerry and Edwards there!! It's inappropriate and disgusting that they condoned what she (and others that night) said! It's so simple.

From what I've read, they've neither "condoned" nor "condemned" what was said, as they've both refused comment. But even had they done so, so what ? Last time I checked, it was still a free country, and criticizing the president wasn't a punishable offense (yet).

Originally posted by beattyfamily
If a Republican celebrity at a Republican Fund raiser (with Bush present) compared Kerry to a private part, there certainly would be a huge outcry...just look at what's happened to Arnold over 'girly men'.

Oh for crying out loud...You mean like the dozens of comments that have been made about Kerry looking like a horse ? Or the ones suggesting he and Edwards were a little touchy feely on the campaign trail (homophibia in action) ? You can't really be serious...that's just ludicrous.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
Interesting how placement of words can change a story. I was unable to access your link, but did find



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/ap/20040720/ap_on_el_ge/brf_bumper_sticker

I fixed the link, it had http:// listed twice (typo). The point I was making FIK is that IF it were an RNC sponsored bumper sticker then the person in Louisville KY would not be searching for the publisher - he'd simply call the RNC and get more. Apparently, despite what you said about the RNC distributing these they are not. I never denied that there are bumper stickers, what I was pointing out was that they are not from the RNC.

 

[wvrevy]

Speaking of the Whoopi conniption the GOP had last week, I just saw this and cracked up

-------------

In response to the spluttering protestations of the GOP, Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill wrote a letter back to Ken Mehlman saying that the Kerry campaign would release the footage if the Bush campaign released:

* "Any copies of the President's military records that would actually prove he fulfilled the terms of his military service";
* "All correspondence between the Defense Department and the White House regarding the no-bid contracts that have gone to the Vice-President's former company [Halliburton]";
* "[The Dick Cheney/Ken Lay/Enron secret energy policy documents] so that the country can learn what lobbyists and special interests wrote the White House energy policy";
* "all White House correspondence between the pharmaceutical industry and the Administration regarding the Medicare Bill, which gave billions to some of the President's biggest donors"; and
* "a selected number of documents regarding the White House's involvement in laying the legal foundation for the interrogation methods that were used in Iraq."

The letter also noted that "As we are sure you and the attorneys representing the President, Vice-President and other White House officials are aware, today marks one year since Administration sources leaked the identity of a covert CIA agent to Bob Novak in an effort to retaliate against a critic of the Administration."

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by wvrevy
When ? I've yet to actually see a quote where Kerry said any such thing. It's easy to sit back and say he did...not so much to actually prove it.

From what I've read, they've neither "condoned" nor "condemned" what was said, as they've both refused comment. But even had they done so, so what ? Last time I checked, it was still a free country, and criticizing the president wasn't a punishable offense (yet).

Oh for crying out loud...You mean like the dozens of comments that have been made about Kerry looking like a horse ? Or the ones suggesting he and Edwards were a little touchy feely on the campaign trail (homophibia in action) ? You can't really be serious...that's just ludicrous.

Ok, ok, no he didn't say Bush is Saddam, he said this: "''What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,'' Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library. He said it April 2, 2003 just 14 days after the war began. How nice.

So what? Yeah, it's a free country, all I'm doing is just comparing her (and others at the fund raiser) disgusting remarks (with no outcry) to Arnold's remark (and lots of outcry)...doesn't make sense to me. 'criticizing Congress isn't a punishable offense (yet)" either.

 

[gometros]

Originally posted by beattyfamily
Ok, ok, no he didn't say Bush is Saddam, he said this: "''What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,'' Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library. He said it April 2, 2003 just 14 days after the war began. How nice.

And this is a problem because? He is simply saying that maybe Bush should concentrate only cleaning up his own house before he spends billions of dollars and thousands of lives cleaning up someone else's mess. That's as much a comparison of Bush to Saddam as calling a legislature a girlie-man is to calling him gay.

 

[Kallison]

No - it was obviously a joke, I think we take all the political correctdness too far.

 

[faithinkarma]

Originally posted by gometros
And this is a problem because? He is simply saying that maybe Bush should concentrate only cleaning up his own house before he spends billions of dollars and thousands of lives cleaning up someone else's mess. That's as much a comparison of Bush to Saddam as calling a legislature a girlie-man is to calling him gay.

Why thank you gometros. I thought I was the only one struggling to understand how that was an example of Kerry calling Bush SH.

 

[inaminute]

At least Kerry has not said " I'm glad it was said. It felt good ! And Bush is a very very mean man and deserved it".

True. But he DID say that the performers--who we all taking their nasty shots at Bush--were the "heart and soul of America."

I could find a lot better ways to express the "heart and soul of America" sentiment than a bunch of overpaid entertainers ridiculing the current president.

As for Dick Cheney's comments--well, they were more than deserved by the receiving party. You don't drag someone through the mud and then expect to act like you're their best buddy. In my opinion, that's more offensive than any foul language the Vice President might have used.

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by inaminute
True. But he DID say that the performers--who we all taking their nasty shots at Bush--were the "heart and soul of America."

I could find a lot better ways to express the "heart and soul of America" sentiment than a bunch of overpaid entertainers ridiculing the current president.

As for Dick Cheney's comments--well, they were more than deserved by the receiving party. You don't drag someone through the mud and then expect to act like you're their best buddy. In my opinion, that's more offensive than any foul language the Vice President might have used.

 

[wvrevy]

So, as long as the comments are "deserved", then it's ok to use foul language ?

Hey, I wonder if our board administrators would go for that ? After all, if it's classy enough for the United States Senate, it should be alright here on this board, right ? Then, after every use, we can all vote on wether or not the term was "deserved" by the receiving party...

Or, we can just recognize the 1,100,522nd attempt to excuse anything that this administration does wrong as being all the fault of the democrats and move on, since somehow I'm thinking this place keeps a high enough standard that language like that of Dick Cheney wouldn't be allowed

You guys crack me up...This president could drive his bicycle into a tree and you guys would be on here the next day arguing that the Clintons planted that tree with that very result in mind Do you even see your own hypocrisy ?