Shiny Happy People Docuseries

[momz]

Of course, we all knew Jim Bob and Michelle were awful people from the get go. Who has all of those children and forces other children to raise them? A bad person. And then, of course everything with Josh sealed the deal. Just awful humans.

But I did not realize what an absolute psychotic sociopath Michelle was until this docuseries. The blanket training segment where she talks (in a baby voice) about the child picking their favorite toy, so she could then abuse said child when he/she reaches for the toy Again, I hope they under constant scrutiny. And I also hope Jim Bob and Michelle are brought to justice one day.

The BABY VOICE!!!! Is there a word for this? something like infantiling or some such? When an adult takes on the persona of a dependent child. It's disgusting.

And the abuse of actual babies with this blanket training nonsense. None of their children are able to identify and express their emotions. They are so stunted and "trained" to express happiness, no matter the circumstances.

 

[leahgoogle]

I've only watched 2 episodes of SHP but I do wonder: Who is raising all the children left in the househould because the older daughters are now out of the house? I guess Michelle must be.
I could care less. I've always thought they were all nut jobs. I also remember when Josh and Anna were expecting Baby#1 and thinking to myself " I bet he is an abuser because there is something"wrong" here". I trust my gut and I was right about him- he's a creep!

Josh always creeped me out. My instinct were right. I don't think I will watch this documentary. I will just make me sad and mad.

 

[brockash]

No on both, but I'm curious on why you assume that anyone that has a different view is part of a conspiracy? You seem very invested on a very narrow view of a case that has a lot of depth.

BTW - it's a well known in the Fundie Snark community that Amy Duggar is an attention seeker. Like I said, I have followed this since the beginning.

I certainly do think there is a lot wrong with the Duggars, however I agree that as an outsider it's really easy too see it all as evil. Having said that if we're being honest with ourselves and it was our son who did something to our other child when they themselves were a child; our first reaction would be to protect BOTH of our kids. I certainly do not believe the way they handled it was right, but I can see how they, especially in the religious cult mentality they have, thought they were doing the right thing. It's a position none of us would ever want to be in, however is almost impossible to say exactly what you would do unless you're in it.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think Michelle's odd voice is a construct that she chooses because she perceives it as properly feminine to speak in such a tone, and it probably was adopted to please JB early on. I think that's it's clear from remarks that she has made that when the children fail to obey, her real voice is allowed to come out, and it's not meant to be pretty and pleasing.

The clip of Michelle recounting her first date with JB gets played quite often, and the fascinating thing about it, IMO, is the way that she clearly describes it as a conversion experience, not having anything at all to do with encountering a compatible intimate companion. Apparently, the evening was spent with him man-splaining Christianity as he (and Gothard) saw it, and her being so bowled over by his brilliance that she decided right then and there that he was meant to be her life-long spiritual guide.

It's worth noting that JB grew up with a father who served time in jail at one point for fraud. JB's father was an alcoholic con man doing business as a used-car salesman, and it's a sure bet that JB absorbed a lot of Daddy's sales technique during his childhood. JB is far from brilliant given his innate hubris, but he's as slick as an otter.

 

[rigs32]

I'd like someone to explain to me what's in it for women to join IBLP. It's one thing if you're raised within the group, but I just can't relate to any adult women signing up to be told they are inferior and the cause of their suffering at the hands of others.

 

[snikki]

The BABY VOICE!!!! Is there a word for this? something like infantiling or some such? When an adult takes on the persona of a dependent child. It's disgusting.

And the abuse of actual babies with this blanket training nonsense. None of their children are able to identify and express their emotions. They are so stunted and "trained" to express happiness, no matter the circumstances.

I watched the Stay Sweet documentary on the FLDS church and the baby voice is about women always being sweet and meek. That documentary was

 

[snikki]

The nastiest new tidbit to come out of the documentary, IMO, was JB *admitting* to Jim Holt that he didn't plan to reveal Josh's proclivities until *after* he was safely married to the Holts' daughter. (At least the Holts loved their daughter enough to pull her out of that situation the minute that Josh's little secret got out of the bag.)

After watching I've gone down a rabbit hole. The Holts oldest daughter ending up marrying a man that molested his little brother and she defends him. Her mother now has a 10 year protective order against her husband. Their son also filed a protective order against his father for his daughter.

This family is just as jacked up as the Duggar’s.

 

[snikki]

I'd like someone to explain to me what's in it for women to join IBLP. It's one thing if you're raised within the group, but I just can't relate to any adult women signing up to be told they are inferior and the cause of their suffering at the hands of others.

Most are born into it or guided (forced) into it by their husbands.

 

[Moliphino]

I'd like someone to explain to me what's in it for women to join IBLP. It's one thing if you're raised within the group, but I just can't relate to any adult women signing up to be told they are inferior and the cause of their suffering at the hands of others.

From what I remember from watching the show ages ago, Michelle used birth control and she had a miscarriage just after Josh. She felt guilty and blamed the birth control and herself for using it. That's at least what led to them being quiverfull.

 

[tzolkin]

I'd like someone to explain to me what's in it for women to join IBLP. It's one thing if you're raised within the group, but I just can't relate to any adult women signing up to be told they are inferior and the cause of their suffering at the hands of others.

That's likely because you are thinking of confident, independent adult women. Millions of vulnerable people have joined harmful cults throughout history. Many people have abusive upbringings and do not realize that they deserve respect or genuine love.

Also, typically, they don't lead with the "women are inferior and deserve to be treated as objects" beliefs. They lay a basic foundation of Christianity and then gradually build upon that, getting more restrictive with each step as you accept each "easier to swallow" belief that eventually lead to the more radical teachings.

For example, they wouldn't introduce a woman on day 1 to the practice of getting "spanked" by their husband as a form of punishment. They start out very slowly getting you to accept the idea of spanking a child as a Biblically-sound teaching and get you to accept it as a form of "loving discipline" first. Then they gradually get you to accept the idea that you also require discipline from God like a child and to view your husband as having inherent authority over you. Eventually working your way up to truly believing it's "good" and in your best interest for your husband to hit you because you require that type of correction in order to grow in your faith.

 

[momz]

We'll agree to disagree. Blanket training does not always involve hitting.


Absolutely it was criminal and he deserves to be where he is. But there are some who just wish to tear the family down because of their views and so will take this story and run with it no matter who it hurts. Victims be damned.


Did Megyn Kelly release the police report? That wasn't my recollection. And I'm guessing the MK show reached out to the Duggars to cover the story, not the other way around. Was it right that the parents had their victimized daughters go on the show to defend the family? Absolutely not - but I'm not sure many of us would choose differently if your livelihood was at-risk. We can say with a 20,000 foot view that we would always do what is morally right, but that might be different if it is actually happening to you.

But if you're in the situation where your son has done an unspeakable crime to your younger kids, you are going to fight to get them help the way you think is best (which for them, was through the church that their lives were centered around). It makes sense that they thought sending him away would help him rather than him being locked up in juvenile detention. No parent wants that. They are not monsters for wanting to protect both the son and the daughters. Obviously, hindsight is 20/20 and now it is obvious their choice to go through the church did nothing to help him but that is the beauty of looking back. We can all make judgements about what should have been done now that we know the outcome.

Nevertheless, whoever released it should have been held fully responsible. No crimes of sexual assault where victims are remotely identifiable, **especially** children, should EVER be released.

oh my. The right way to deal with a criminal is by reporting the crime and a judge can decide the appropriate action. It is not a parent's responsibility to shelter their child who has committed a crime. It is does not fall upon "the church" to be judge and jury in these matters. In fact isn't that interfering with justice? Crime is a civil matter that affects us all. The victims of his assault while he was a juvenile suffered more because he was never held accountable. Then they were coerced to go on national TV and basically say "boys will by boys".

I think the parents and "the church" are guilty by association. Interfering with the justice system at minimum.

 

[momz]

That is another thing...Amy Duggar seems to be a huge attention seeker. I find it fascinating that only her and Jill Duggar went on to participate in the show. Even Jinger Duggar did not tear down her family in her new book. None of the kids really have, it's all outside people pulling assumptions.

I think a lot of this is clever marketing because people loved to hate the family even before all this came out. If people can cash in, they'll do and say anything.

I disagree. I think Amy is bringing attention to the family, not seeking fame for herself. This "sin" perpetrated by Josh has had a lot of power. It's been allowed to fester for years. This should have been dealt with properly from the get go. I am a firm believer that sin brought into the light loses it's power. The Duggar parents continually pull this one back under the rug, the use words that diminish the impact it had on their daughters. They have gone to great links to hush the girls from talking about it. It has not been brought to the light, it still has power.

 

[momz]

All I'm saying is that I think it's wrong to say that Jill or any of the other girls should have to come out and expose their victimization in order to protect other people's kids. That is not their burden to bear. We can agree to disagree.

exposing the victims is a separate crime, the pedophilia was the original crime. Josh's behavior was what should have been exposed...not the victims or the details. But he should have been held accountable.

 

[darnheather]

While I am an avid proponent of homeschooling, the Duggars and those like them make me ill. It is perfectly possible to homeschool your children without abusing them.

 

[nancipants]

I'd like someone to explain to me what's in it for women to join IBLP. It's one thing if you're raised within the group, but I just can't relate to any adult women signing up to be told they are inferior and the cause of their suffering at the hands of others.

I ask this same question of the women attending Turning Point's Young Women's Leadership Summit, where speakers tell them about how they should give up their career goals to get married and have babies. Mind you, they are being told this by women who have made careers as extreme right-wing pundits... or grown men who like to tell women in their teens and twenties what to do with their lives.

Sadly, most of these women have bought into this hook, line, and sinker. They WANT to be trad wives. Which, fine, if that makes you happy. But they're not happy with making those choices just for themselves; they want to turn women backwards.

 

[brockash]

oh my. The right way to deal with a criminal is by reporting the crime and a judge can decide the appropriate action. It is not a parent's responsibility to shelter their child who has committed a crime. It is does not fall upon "the church" to be judge and jury in these matters. In fact isn't that interfering with justice? Crime is a civil matter that affects us all. The victims of his assault while he was a juvenile suffered more because he was never held accountable. Then they were coerced to go on national TV and basically say "boys will by boys".

I think the parents and "the church" are guilty by association. Interfering with the justice system at minimum.

If your child committed a crime (which many will often characterize as a child being curious) such as this; 99% of a parents first instint would not be that their child is some kind of criminal monster; it would be to protect both kids. Right or wrong; it is true. I have seen this play out many many times in my line of work. Like I said before it's much easier for us, as outsiders, to look at the situation and scream monsters because it makes us feel better and feel like things like this will never happen to us because we're so above it and we're not animals like they are, but sadly that type of mindset does nothing to prevent a situation such as this.

Again, I am no fan of the Duggars, but I also don't see a point of living in make believe.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'd like someone to explain to me what's in it for women to join IBLP. It's one thing if you're raised within the group, but I just can't relate to any adult women signing up to be told they are inferior and the cause of their suffering at the hands of others.

For a lot of converts (which Michelle is) the appeal is in being taken care of. (There is a strong youth ministry so these converts are often older teen girls.) The pitch of the "umbrella of authority" is that along with being the authority within the household, comes full responsibilty for being the provider and "protector"as well. Some women are really attracted to the idea of that trade-off; they are in love and believe that "of course he would never hurt me", while getting the perceived prize of being a SAHM who can devote herself to raising choldren and never having to work outside the home. We know that's a load of claptrap in the long run, but that's the scenario they sell.

PS: My comment re: the Holts wasn't meant to hold them up as great examples. I was just commenting that at least that one time they did manage to do the right thing in spite of themselves.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

No one is making anssump or jumping to conclusions without evidence. I really don’t understand why you find it so hard to believe that the Duggars spanked their children.

It’s literally in the 2015 written police report interview of one of the Duggar girls regarding Josh’s molestation. Pg 29, “Inv. Taylor asked [redacted] about getting spanked. [redacted] said that when [redacted] is bad that [redacted] mother and dad spank [redacted]. Inv. Taylor asked what they use to spank. [redacted] said they have a rod. Inv. Taylor asked if they do this to all the kids and [redacted] said yes. Inv. Taylor asked if they leave any bruising [redacted] said no.”

Since adulthood, I know at least Jessa, Jill, and Jinger have all stated publicly that their parents hit them as children. Some of these statements were negative, but some of them were actually defending their parents for spanking so I certainly don’t think they were making it up for attention.

In 2021, a family friend gave a detailed description about the “rod of encouragement” that both Michelle and Jim Bob used— plastic rod, approximately 2 feet long and the diameter of a glue stick, gray, with a little knob on the end to hold on to. Others have stated that the Duggars laid the rod on the dashboard when they went on trips.

All of these statements were completely unrelated (and years prior) to the documentary that just came out, but they all use the same phrases of needing “encouragement” and “loving correction” that Michelle uses as euphemisms for corporal punishment.

Where did I say I find it hard to believe? You say you are not making assumptions then literally jump to conclusions about that I never wrote.

I said from my recollection I didn't think any of the Duggar kids have ever came out and said they were physically punished. You gave examples of the contrary - I believe you!


I don't think spanking is the same as being hit with a rod, but I know many are very against spanking. I am not one of those people. I think spanking, when used very sparingly and for only extreme circumstances, can be a useful tool in child rearing. Not with a belt, not with a paddle, but with a hand and done with not a heavy hand.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

If your child committed a crime (which many will often characterize as a child being curious) such as this; 99% of a parents first instint would not be that their child is some kind of criminal monster; it would be to protect both kids. Right or wrong; it is true. I have seen this play out many many times in my line of work. Like I said before it's much easier for us, as outsiders, to look at the situation and scream monsters because it makes us feel better and feel like things like this will never happen to us because we're so above it and we're not animals like they are, but sadly that type of mindset does nothing to prevent a situation such as this.

Again, I am no fan of the Duggars, but I also don't see a point of living in make believe.

100%, well said.

So many fail to see the circumstances leading up to it and are just have such exhilaration to see a family they heartily disagree with (politically/religiously/philosophically) in trouble with the law and getting dragged down. I don't agree with the Duggars and never watched because I thought the whole thing was stupid (same as the Jon and Kate plus 8). But I think it's too easy to demonize people we disagree with. Everyone wants to feel morally superior. I hope that everyone saying there is no gray and only white/black reflect on what might be a gray area in their own life.

 

[nancipants]

The problem is the Duggars didn't try to protect ALL their kids. They tried to protect Josh and later used the girls he hurt to protect their income stream. He went to a work camp, not therapy.