Senate passes stimulus package...

[AndyLL]

BOO BOO HISS HISS!!!!

Nothing like being trillion of dollars in debt

I don't remember you posting this when the Bush administration put us 4-5 trillion in debt?

 

[Master Mason]

We had absolutely no national debt

Actually only one time in our history have we had zero national debt, and that was in 1835 under Andrew Jackson, and was actually a mistake, they meant to pay off one thing and authorized paying off the national debt.

 

[Master Mason]

I don't remember you posting this when the Bush administration put us 4-5 trillion in debt?

So to be clear, it was a bad thing when Bush did it, but it's a good thing if Obama continues to do it... Just checking..

 

[Mamu]

I may be a moderate democrate but I totally disagree with this stimulus package.

There's lots of blame to go around. The past 16 years, while some have been good years GREED has become the major factor in what were seeing today. The last 8 years of republican control has pushed us over the edge.

I'm not saying we don't need some kind of stimulus, right now we do, but to put the next 2 generations into a debt, with staggering numbers, not millions, not billions but trillions to me is just adding to the greed of ME and forget about the next gereration. Let them fend for themselves.

If we keep adding to the deficit at the rate were going NONE OF OUR CHILDREN OR GRAND-CHILDREN WILL EVER LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM.

 

[LaraK]

I'm a moderate democrat as well..."blue dog" if you will.

I didn't read all the responses, so I apologize if someone else has posted this. Just wanted to put the number "billion" in perspective, because I don't think people realize how big of a number that is.

A. A billion seconds ago it was 1960.

B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.

C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.

D. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.

E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government is spending it.

$870 BILLION dollars! How long does it take you to make a buck?

 

[Geoff_M]

I don't remember you posting this when the Bush administration put us 4-5 trillion in debt?

This may come as a shock to you, but there were many in the Conservative camp that were none too happy that Bush and the GOP Congress started spending money like there was no tomorrow (or 2006 in the case on Congress). For a period of time, except for differences in several social issues and Iraq, you couldn't tell GOP members apart from Democrats. This, along with things like the Foley scandal, helped contribute to the GOP loosing control of both houses of Congress as a significant portion of the base was "turned off" by the congressional actions of the GOP. Things like the Medicare Prescription Benefit ticked off a lot of fiscal conservatives.

 

[Master Mason]

The last 8 years of republican control has pushed us over the edge.

Did you miss the dem's taking over both houses of congress 2+years ago?

 

[wall*e2008]

If we keep adding to the deficit at the rate were going NONE OF OUR CHILDREN OR GRAND-CHILDREN WILL EVER LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM.

Forget the children and grand- children living the American dream if this keeps up we will not be living the American dream ourselves.

 

[Geoff_M]

Did you miss the dem's taking over both houses of congress 2+years ago?

...or the fact that the Democrats had control of the Senate for the first two years.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

I think it is good to point out what I would call "true" republicans believe in being fiscally Conservative. For me and I think many others would like to see our party go back to the belief that we should both live and govern within our means. If that causes us to have less programs and other fancy stuff then it does. We cannot afford it all. Some say it is heartless but I don't think so. I think it is learning to do more with less money. Families do it everyday. It is possible to take care of true needs and do it within a reasonable budget.

 

[ntsammy5]

Actually only one time in our history have we had zero national debt, and that was in 1835 under Andrew Jackson, and was actually a mistake, they meant to pay off one thing and authorized paying off the national debt.

Hey come on - it was from an email. EVERYTHING on the internet is factual!

 

[Laz]

Wait until chapter two of this mess hits.....INFLATION. You think you're sore now. wait!!!

I went thru this in the 70's and it isn't pretty. One thing that doesn't keep pace with inflation of that type is that in no way does wages keep up.

I definitely found out one thing with that experience. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You pay for them all.

The other lesson was from my father....live within your means.

I lived through that as well. It was STAGFLATION! The worst of both worlds and we are in for it again! Slow GDP and high inflation...UGH! Look out CDs, here comes my money. I am sure not going to spend it on anything!

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I think it is good to point out what I would call "true" republicans believe in being fiscally Conservative. For me and I think many others would like to see our party go back to the belief that we should both live and govern within our means. If that causes us to have less programs and other fancy stuff then it does. We cannot afford it all. Some say it is heartless but I don't think so. I think it is learning to do more with less money. Families do it everyday. It is possible to take care of true needs and do it within a reasonable budget.

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

How's that fiscal conservatism working for ya?

The national debt has raised steadily since Reagan came into office, with only Clinton (not a fiscal conservative) providing a downturn.

Bottomline: If it's broken....You gotta try to fix it. And it's broke. This isn't just a boo boo that will be cured with a kiss and a bandaid.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

It is what I believe I didn't say anything about what you should believe - no need for you to go into attack mode. Using a budget and only spending what you can afford works very well when done properly.

I bought my first house in 1985. I remember inflation very clearly. While those were difficult years I think this will be worse because it will last longer. so many of the programs in this bill are social and will be difficult to take out of the budget in the future.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

It is what I believe I didn't say anything about what you should believe - no need for you to go into attack mode. Using a budget and only spending what you can afford works very well when done properly.

I bought my first house in 1985. I remember inflation very clearly. While those were difficult years I think this will be worse because it will last longer. so many of the programs in this bill are social and will be difficult to take out of the budget in the future.

I wasn't going into attack mode. I'm sorry you took it that way. Just bringing in some facts in an open debate on the topic.

 

[FINFAN]

I have gotten the overall feeling that many have that "backed into a corner" response...myself included. We as a nation are expected to work together and save our country, however, to me, it is too little too late. I agree with Mamu on the "greed of me" status has overtaken the country. I fear those who normally would not have that stance are forced to think that way, as it is instinct for most to save their future generations. So saving ,hoarding,fear...all become the commonplace,and yes, then inflation. Add to it the unfathomable amount of debt that is being presented...how on earth can anyone look past the day to day? How can you expect kids to want to do well, attend college, even want to STAY in the U.S. when they have this huge barrier working against them? This is our POTUS big plan to "unite" americans? It will undoubtedly place us all on common ground however...the poorhouse, vulnerable to other countires...and wipe out all that past generations have done to build this amazing country. This amount is simpy out of control. I wonder what restaurant BO and Michelle will eat at back here in Chicago this weekend... I'm pretty sure they won't have to worry about crowds, since no one ELSE can afford to eat out.
many have very valid and factual info on this thread, I appreciate all the posts as they help me to grasp all of this, but as an average American who does not have a safety net for any future generations...all I can say is hope is waning. Sadness for my past generations who worked so hard and selfishly, gave their lives for this country...and it has just been disrespectfully tossed aside...by carelses decisions, imbalance of power THROUGHOUT the years.....uggghhhh rant over, just so frustrated with the mentality of it all.

 

[Charade]

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

How's that fiscal conservatism working for ya?

The national debt has raised steadily since Reagan came into office, with only Clinton (not a fiscal conservative) providing a downturn.

Bottomline: If it's broken....You gotta try to fix it. And it's broke. This isn't just a boo boo that will be cured with a kiss and a bandaid.

A couple of things...

1) The population in 1938 (the starting year of that chart) was 138M (give or take). Less than 1/2 what it is today.

2) The "New Deal" ushered tons and tons of entitlement programs that continue to this day with more and more added on every year. Somehow we have to pay for these things. There isn't enough tax revenue coming into the government to pay for all of them so they have to borrow and borrow and borrow...

3) The chart shows (estimated) just as steep a rise during the next 4 years.

4) The President and Congress are both responsible for spending. So during Reagan's presidency, a Democratically controlled congress was just as responsible for the steep rise in the national debt. Reagan asked for money, congress gave it to him. Congress introduces spending legislation, sends it to the president, he signs or vetos it. If he vetos it, congress can override that veto if they have the votes.

 

[Geoff_M]

...with only Clinton (not a fiscal conservative) providing a downturn.

You're forgetting that there are a couple of dance partners in the budget tango. Reagan had Tip O'Neil, and Clinton's fiscal responsibility epiphany was greatly influenced by the events of 1994 and the rise of his "partner" in some guy with a funny name named "Newt".

 

[Disneycrazymom]

princess sorry, i miss understood.


In all those situations there were checks and balances too. I have said all thought this election cycle we need to have the checks and balances. 1 party in control of it all is never a good idea. They need to have the open debate and to compromise. We are seeing the consequences of not having a balance of power right now.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Ok, I have to admit, I'm not as well educated on politics as some of you. I was born when Reagan was put into office.

But, I have a question. Why is it always congresses fault when something goes wrong for a Republican president, or congresses save when something goes right for a Democratic president.