Semantics question.....what does this mean?

[bicker]

But, when a person is using "their perception" as a tool to be hurtful and end the conversation with, "I'm done with you.", the perception thing kind of goes out the window.

First, no one can hurt you with words -- you can only do that to yourself. Second, going from "You seem rude to me," to, "I'm done with you," still leave "the perception thing" intact: They take responsibility for their feelings, and have decided to remove themselves from interacting with you because of how they feel when interacting with you.

 

[MushyMushy]

I pretty-much disagree with everyone!

I think it is pretty self-centered to tell someone that they are rude, so acknowledging that all that it is is one's own personal perception of rudeness is a rather enlightened and positive perspective. That person is taking responsibility for their own feelings with regard to you, instead of blaming you for how they feel. I think a lot of people could benefit from the exercise of acknowledging their own perceptions of others as being, at least in part, but in general mostly, something about themselves, rather than being about the person they're having perceptions about.

I disagree. I think she read this somewhere in a self-help book or magazine article and is just trying to be passive aggressive. The whole "I'm done with you" negates everything an "I" statement is supposed to achieve.

 

[OceanAnnie]

First, no one can hurt you with words -- you can only do that to yourself. Second, going from "You seem rude to me," to, "I'm done with you," still leave "the perception thing" intact: They take responsibility for their feelings, and have decided to remove themselves from interacting with you because of how they feel when interacting with you.

Then people can say whatever they want with no repercussions. There is a hole in the universe somewhere.

 

[bicker]

I disagree. I think she read this somewhere in a self-help book or magazine article and is just trying to be passive aggressive.

That's certainly a possibility. However, the exercise (of switching from "You are rude" to "I perceive you as rude") itself doesn't necessarily imply that, and as I suggested is actually a positive change.

 

[bicker]

Then people can say whatever they want with no repercussions. There is a hole in the universe somewhere.

How is it "no repercussions"? Taking responsibility for what you feel doesn't obviate the ramifications for having said what you've said.

 

[hackorydackorydac]

Oh please....

So the MIL, just out of the blue, decided that they would remove themselves from the situation because of how they feel about it.

There's nothing implied there?

I'd rather somebody told me exactly what the issue was. In fact, I think the OP ought to go back and confront the MIL and ask EXACTLY what caused her to reach that conclusion.

There are relationships at risk here. To let somebody pull that kind of crap is awful.

 

[bicker]

What do you mean, "To let somebody pull that kind of crap..."???

 

[MushyMushy]

Just out of curiosity, OP, how do you usually behave around your MIL that she could possibly construe as rude and disrespectful?

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Just out of curiosity, OP, how do you usually behave around your MIL that she could possibly construe as rude and disrespectful?

Seriously. I want to know what happened to make her MIL say something like this.

 

[Galahad]

If someone says "I experience you as rude and disrespectful" does that mean the same as "You are rude and disrespectful?"

Seems to me it means they are supercilious - semantically speaking.

 

[OceanAnnie]

How is it "no repercussions"? Taking responsibility for what you feel doesn't obviate the ramifications for having said what you've said.

"Ramifications for having said what you've said", implies there are feelings attached to what was put forth. According to what you stated, a person can't or shouldn't be hurt by what others say, so no feelings should be attached. Correct?

In this case, if you negate the feelings then there is no need for any ramifications.

 

[poohandwendy]

If someone says "I experience you as rude and disrespectful" does that mean the same as "You are rude and disrespectful?"

I'm dealing with someone who can carefully craft every word and every sentence and I think they just called me rude and disrespectful but didn't want to use the bad "you" word.

LOL, what they are really saying is "I am passive aggressive and arrogant"

 

[hackorydackorydac]

LOL, what they are really saying is "I am passive aggressive and arrogant"

That's exactly what I mean by "that kind of crap"....

Thanks, poohandwendy!

 

[poohandwendy]

I pretty-much disagree with everyone!

I think it is pretty self-centered to tell someone that they are rude, so acknowledging that all that it is is one's own personal perception of rudeness is a rather enlightened and positive perspective. That person is taking responsibility for their own feelings with regard to you, instead of blaming you for how they feel. I think a lot of people could benefit from the exercise of acknowledging their own perceptions of others as being, at least in part, but in general mostly, something about themselves, rather than being about the person they're having perceptions about.

You know, I think that is a wonderful touchy-feely way of putting a positive spin on it, but I think it is clear that this was said in a blatantly aggressive manner. This was an attack, not a declaration of enlightenment meant to take personal responsibility of perception or build a bridge of understanding.

I have found, in my personal experience, that people who speak that way do so in effort to patronize and manipulate. JMHO

 

[ohiominnie]

Just out of curiosity, OP, how do you usually behave around your MIL that she could possibly construe as rude and disrespectful?

If you were to read all 12,000 of my DIS posts (go ahead, I'll wait) you'd find I have a very active, very developed sense of humor. I grew up with teasing and ribbing and good natured fun from my own family. MIL has said in the past that's one of the things she dearly loves about me.

There has always been a bit of tension. Dh's parents were divorced. There was a lot of playing one against the other. Lots of decisions that I didn't understand, but whatever, that was her life.

There was a disagreement this last August where she had promised to do something very important for us to help us out. And then came back a week later and said no, she wouldn't do it. I got a little ticked b/c we had counted on her and "I experienced her as wishy-washy." (NO, I did not SAY that, but in light of the current situation, it's pretty funny)

We went to visit (FL) in November and had a LOVELY time (or so I thought)
Apparently she still felt there was tension. She emailed me and begged me to be honest, was there any more problems, was there anything bugging me, that she didn't want anything to still be between us.

So I mentioned one little thing. And she flew off the handle and went into all of the "comments made here and there during the trip" that she chose to ignore. ????????????? I told her that I wished she had brought them up at the time b/c I'm sure any comment I made was probably with humor. She refuses to tell me ANY of the comments made so I have no way to even defend myself. I think one of them MAY have been (assuming here) when we sat down at the movie, I happened to be sitting by her and I leaned over to dh who was about 4 ppl away and laughed and said "uh...can I switch with you so I don't have to sit by your mom?" then I looked at her, laughed, said I was just kidding, and we had a pleasant talk and watched the movie. I have NO idea if this is one of my "rude and disrespectful comments b/c she won't tell. But this is the kind of comments I make. I have done it for the 18 yrs I've known her and she has told me it's one of the things she loves about me.

I dunno. This ticks me off too. She and I (via email) said we're leaving the dh's out of this. That this was between ME and HER. Dh is SUPER busy this time of year and doesn't need to be drug down by his mother who then requires lots of time with all of her needs. Besides, this truly was between me and her, so no need to drag dh's into it. Well, I had NO choice b/c dh called to say he was on his way home yesterday and he could tell I had been crying. But what TICKS ME OFF is that she had called his cell phone and left a message to the effect of "I know I'm not supposed to tell, but I just wanted to let you know that I think the relationship is over and yada yada yada big long message." UGH. Makes ME want to call HER dh (third marriage) and drag him in. She had NO right to break the trust.

UGH. So, yes, there were some precipitating factors. She begged me to be honest, so I was. I guess it's a matter of "SHE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH." And no amount of niceties could fix it. SHE has chosen to end the relationship. B/c ever email I send now is not responded to.

I experience her as controlling, manipulative, unforgiving, and unable to keep a promise.

 

[ohiominnie]

I think one of them MAY have been (assuming here)

Another comment I made, which may be the basis for my "rude and disrespectful" label was she was telling us that there were a lot of Mexicans in the area and some of them were opening Mexican restaurants. The long and short of it was that she and her friends were boycotting those restaurants because these people were probably illegal and they won't support that.

I told her there'd be no way to tell if they were illegal or not unless you asked to see papers, et all. She said they had to be illegal b/c they didn't speak English and refused to try. So they boycott and go to the Mexican restaurants run by Americans.

Ok, I had a problem with this. I said these people come to the US to have a better life and make something of themselves. That we have no right to judge them like that. That at least they are TRYING to make a living and do something productive and not living off of the system.

Very very late in the conversation (which did not get to heated yelling or ANYTHING close) she said "well, the food isn't good."

Yeah, right. How does she know if she and her friends won't eat there. That was a cop out.

At that point I dropped it.

So if she has a problem with me sticking up for the underdog. Tough-patootie!

 

[bicker]

"Ramifications for having said what you've said", implies there are feelings attached to what was put forth.

"Implies"? No. There is no implication there. The implication is that if you say something, something may happen as a result of you having said it. That's it.

According to what you stated, a person can't or shouldn't be hurt by what others say

Not exactly: Rather, what I said was that no one can hurt you by what they say -- instead you choose to be hurt by what they say. The responsibility for the (emotional) hurt is yours, alone. (If they say thing about you, to others, that's a completely different story.)

so no feelings should be attached. Correct?

You can attach whatever feelings you want to what is said to you. That's the whole point.

In this case, if you negate the feelings then there is no need for any ramifications.

If you want, but by the same token you can choose to take action based on what is said. Either, or!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You know, I think that is a wonderful touchy-feely way of putting a positive spin on it, but I think it is clear that this was said in a blatantly aggressive manner. This was an attack, not a declaration of enlightenment meant to take personal responsibility of perception or build a bridge of understanding.

I have found, in my personal experience, that people who speak that way do so in effort to patronize and manipulate. JMHO

My step-mother once called us rude.....

About the time when she carried through with her 10 year old assumption that she was making my wedding dress. We POLITELY POLITELY POLITELY informed her that I would be shopping for my wedding dress with my mother. That logistically, it would be pricey to fly up or her fly down for fittings and such.

Well we got a NASTY letter from her about our selfishness and rudeness.

So I agree with you PAW--she had tried to manipulate me for years and had one final temper tantrum as a result.

I don't know what happened with OP and her MIL....but it is likely that the one calling the other rude--is playing the part of the pot in SOME cases.

 

[Disney Doll]

You know, my DH has sister who is a nut, similar to your MIL. Behaves badly, then tries to turn it around so that she appears to be the victim. We figured out a long time ago that the way to handle her was to decide what you were going to say with regard to a particular subject, say it, and continually repeat the exact same thing until she got sick of asking or got it through her thick skull or let the matter drop.

You MIL has said she is "done with you". I suggest you take that to heart, and be done with her also. And I mean that. If she is as low in self-esteem and everything else as she seems to be based on what you have shared here, the fact that you are "done" with allowing her to drive you insane will drive her insane.

Crazy manipulative people love to stir things up, love to be the "eye" of the storm, love to get everyone all riled up...remember, negative attention is still attention.

My recommendation is to respond to any further e-mails or other contact from her about this subject with the following statement:

"You said you are done with me, and that is fine. I have no desire to, nor will I, discuss this issue further." If she persists, say "I just told you I will not be discussing this issue further...good-bye" and log off or hang up the phone. It's called limit-setting and it is the only way to handle crazy people. Hopefully your DH will be on board with you for this exercise. The key is to say it in a calm tone of voice, not allow her to goad you into anger, and not take it personally that your MIL is a nut. It's nothing you've done...she's a nut.

And that is the same response you give to her any time she tries to goad you into anything other than polite superficial conversation. "That is not a subject I will be discussing with you" is a very effective line. The key is to keep repeating it, no matter what, and to stay calm and not let the person see that they are aggravating you...that's what crazy people live for...to aggravate others.

Good luck...it's took us about 4 years to reign DH's sister in, but she behaves pretty well for us most of the time. Now his other good sister, who still goes around and around with crazy one, is a different story. Crazy one aggravates the good one to no end, but the good one won't or can't take our advice, so she gets all pissed, crazy one is all smug. It can be an amusing thing to watch, when it happens.

BTW...that bogus "I'm experinecing you as..." crap is all that gfeel good psychobabble designed to make it seem like the person is not insulting you, when in effect they are. It's passive aggressive behavior, because later they will be able to say "I was just telling you MY feelings" and all that crap. DH's crazy sister tried that for a while too, until I told her to stop the psychobabble since she wasn't the first nut I had ever encountered. I'm a nurse...believe me when I tell you there are a lot of nuts in the world.

 

[bicker]

You know, I think that is a wonderful touchy-feely way of putting a positive spin on it

Which is really important in witch-hunt threads like this.

but I think it is clear that this was said in a blatantly aggressive manner.

If you weren't there, you only have the OP's side of the story to go on, and that's what is most dangerous about threads like this. As I said in my first message, I'm going to disagree with the prevailing perspective. And I'm doing that simply because there is so often a lack of perspective in threads like this.

Regardless, taking the OP's own situation out of it, my point that "I perceive you as rude" is better than "You are rude" shouldn't be lost in the desire to attack the OP's MIL at all costs.

I have found, in my personal experience, that people who speak that way do so in effort to patronize and manipulate. JMHO

I have found, in my personal experience, that people who judge others for taking responsibility for their own feelings, are missing the boat. YMMV.