Selling of the fastpass....

[mdsoccermom]

I would never sell fast passes, and have given them away several times, but I have wondered about how much they would be worth.

Excuse me for having an un-magical thought at Disney.

 

[Wadecool]

Previous hoarding of FPs so that other guests can not get FPs is an abuse of the system. The same way it was abuse when people hoarded CRT ressies in the past.

And now you are an interpreter of Disney policy and know exactly why the FPs say they are non-transferable? But i guess that Disney policy doesnt apply to you?

Apparently you haven't been made aware of the fact that using late FP's was allowed and even encouraged by many CM's. That's ok, we all learn something new every day.

What WDW really needs is an uber conscientious individual to patrol the park in search of any and all FP wrongdoing. Based upon your extraordinary passion regarding this topic, I nominate UNCFanatik. Seconded?

 

[mattsdragon]

I"ve been meaning to tell WadeCool this for a while

You're lucky you didn't draw Loyola (Md) in the first round of the tournament, Ohio State took us out, but if it hadn't been for that, we'd have gone all the way.

We did win the Lacrosse Championship this year you know.

Loyola Greyhounds. . .School of Champions.

 

[lindsmom]

I feel sorry for OP. I don't think OP was trying to stir a pot, etc. To me it sounded like "Hey, which ride would be the most valuable if there were a black market for fp's?" DH and I have done this a ton of times.

Christmas shopping, when we walk out to our parking spot to leave we joke about how we could probably get $20 for our spot.

I recently purchased the last t-shirt at my daughter's gymnastics meet and thought to myself "Boy, if I auctioned this off, what would I get?"

I have the feeling that's the frame of mind OP was in when posing the original question.

My answer is that under the old system, when a fastpass could be used anytime after the "window", I'm thinking Soarin', TT, TSM would be good money makers. Those are the parking spot up front in my previous analogy.

Problem is under the new rules, you'd have to find a buyer before the return window closes which limits your options.

I have given fast passes away before. Arrest me. Although I almost was arrested as the family I gave them to looked at me like I was completely insane, trying to scam them. But I couldn't bring myself to throw them in the trash.

I probably wouldn't sell them, as they didn't cost me anything in the first place. But it's FUN to imagine.

 

[ghtx]

What is immoral about selling or buying fastpasses? Is it just that it's against Disney policy, or is there some deeper aversion to it? People buy and sell park tickets, DVC points, etc.

 

[2girlsmom]

For those that say its against disney policy I wonder what would happen if you went to the CM at the front of the line and said "I'm not going to use these so when the time comes you can give them to a family about to get in line if you want" Would the CM be allowed to give them?

In answer to this question, I HAVE taken fastpasses, and when we found we were not going to be in the park to use them, we took them to a cast member and asked about it. We were instructed that we should feel free to give to other guests, and in fact the cast member in question pulled some guests aside and asked if they would want our fast passes. Based on that, I do not believe that you are "transferring" a fast pass if you give away in this manner, and this would make sense, as you have not "used" it, it doesn't tie to you directly, the same as if you have a park ticket that you have never entered any park on, it is okay for you to give it to your neighbor (if you wanted to) and allow them to use it. Disney doesn't care WHO uses it, they are happy it is getting used.

I was never one to collect fastpasses all day for the express purpose of using in the evening, but only because that didn't fit my touring style, we were definitely told REPEATEDLY that we could use them late, and on a few occasions we may have been a bit late getting back, as an example, we did once get a fast pass at 10am for TSMM starting at 5:15pm. After the morning at HS, we went to AK in the afternoon, and we didn't get back to TSM until a little after 6:30, so about 15-20 minutes outside the printed window, still rode (this was last October, before the change), but USUALLY we used within the window.

I would NEVER sell a fastpass nor buy one, first, if I want a fastpass I will get my own for free, never been a problem as we generally get to the parks at rope drop or VERY shortly after. And selling them just strikes me as dishonest, since Disney gives them away.

So to the poster who feels it a double standard to be anti-selling/buying fast passes when many of us used to use late fast passes, etc. Selling/buying is EXPRESSLY against the rules. Using late fast passes was PERMITTED for years, and actively encouraged by MANY cast members in the parks. Giving away your fast passes that you weren't going to be able to use was/is ALSO permitted according to the cast members. I see no issue here.

 

[t_catt11]

What is immoral about selling or buying fastpasses? Is it just that it's against Disney policy, or is there some deeper aversion to it? People buy and sell park tickets, DVC points, etc.

Don't know about immoral, but it is against policy to sell fastpasses.

Tickets are supposed to only be sold by authorized brokers. Renting points is allowed under your DVC contract.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Both fruit, but different.

 

[minnie mum]

What is immoral about selling or buying fastpasses? Is it just that it's against Disney policy, or is there some deeper aversion to it? People buy and sell park tickets, DVC points, etc.

Well first of all, according to the fastpass that I am currently looking at (granted it is almost a year old) it says on the back of the pass NOT FOR SALE!! (exclamation points are mine). So it would seem to me (but then I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV), that attempting to sell them would be illegal. And since the only people I can think of who might buy them would be the poor shmuck who didn't know that they were free to begin with, I would also call it immoral for taking advantage of the ignorant.

People can buy and sell unused park tickets legally. They cannot buy and sell used park tickets. I don't see how the sale of park tickets equates with the (hypothetical) sale of fastpasses.

 

[ghtx]

Don't know about immoral, but it is against policy to sell fastpasses.

Tickets are supposed to only be sold by authorized brokers. Renting points is allowed under your DVC contract.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Both fruit, but different.

Well first of all, according to the fastpass that I am currently looking at (granted it is almost a year old) it says on the back of the pass NOT FOR SALE!! (exclamation points are mine). So it would seem to me (but then I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV), that attempting to sell them would be illegal. And since the only people I can think of who might buy them would be the poor shmuck who didn't know that they were free to begin with, I would also call it immoral for taking advantage of the ignorant.

People can buy and sell unused park tickets legally. They cannot buy and sell used park tickets. I don't see how the sale of park tickets equates with the (hypothetical) sale of fastpasses.

Okay, I agree that if it is against Disney policy (i.e. they expressly tell you not to do it), then you shouldn't do it, and it's immoral to do it.

However, my interpretation of some of the earlier comments is that FP resale is somehow a prima facie immoral act, even if it weren't expressly forbidden by the rules. E.g. pps are adamant that they would never even consider doing such a thing. I could be wrong about this interpretation of others' comments.

I have no such innate aversion to FP resale. Similarly, I have no innate aversion to ticket or DVC point resale, two types of transactions that aren't expressly forbidden by Disney, but other than that seem to be morally equivalent to FP resale.

 

[goofy4tink]

How do you figure it didnt stop anyone from getting a FP? at attractions like TSMM and Soaring, FPs run out. Hoarders did prevent people from getting FPs.

Not all that hard to understand...what difference does it make if I took 5 FP's, within the time periods I was allowed to, and then chose to use them later in the day, vs at the time of the 'return window'? If I used them at the return time, fine, if I used them later in the day, fine. No one was denied a FP because I held onto my FPs vs using them at the stated return times. It just made no difference. I guess that if everyone ran to the FP windows, and grabbed as many as humanly possible, and did that at all FP areas, as soon as they could, then sure...maybe someone would be shut out. But in all reality? Just isn't an issue.

how ironic is it that FP late users always trumpet the "I didnt do anything against Disney policy" but yet many gave away their FPs which is against Disney policy because on the FP it says its non-transferable. I guess the same CMs that told them they could use them late also told them they could give them to other guests.

They didn't do anything against Disney policy. Disney allowed people to return past the stated return time...so, that, in fact, was the Disney policy. And Disney truly has no issue with my handing off my unused FP to someone else. I never handed one over if it wasn't able to be used within the return time stated on the FP though. Too many people were afraid to use them past the return window.
All I can say is that anything that comes out of a CMs mouth, is pretty much what Disney policy is. Yeah, there are times you may get two different answers..but that is seldom found at the park level.

I had actually started to build up a little respect for your position because you seemed to have put a little thought into it in the past. The quoted post erases all that.

1. The thought of selling FPs to doe-eyed first-time parkgoers, or any other, for personal gain disgusts me. Call me self-righteous if it makes you feel better, but it is morally reprehensible and clearly against Disney policy and intent. If you disagree with that, I think you would find yourself at the far end of that particular spectrum.

2. The thought of using FPs past the softly-worded printed window--that multiple CMs volunteered to me as not set in stone--is not in the same ballpark. If you want to believe it is, go ahead.

3. FPs that I've given away were not part of a premeditated master strategy to upset the FP distribution system of a major corporation. They were last-minute decisions based on our changing desires over the course of the day. Maybe little Johnny had a change of heart about riding a particular ride or little Sue was tired and we decided it was best to return to the resort. Does it feel good to give them away? Of course. Am I so desperate to feel that so as to collect them hours earlier specifically for that feeling? Uh, no.

You now join a select group of posters who I no longer engage with on this subject. Our two positions are too radically different for it to make sense for either of us, and it just wastes everyone else's time.

Oh man.....now I'm agreeing with you!!!

Previous hoarding of FPs so that other guests can not get FPs is an abuse of the system. The same way it was abuse when people hoarded CRT ressies in the past.

And now you are an interpreter of Disney policy and know exactly why the FPs say they are non-transferable? But i guess that Disney policy doesnt apply to you?

FPs are hugely different than ADRs for CRT. I was around for that 'frenzy' and it wasn't pretty!!! Those 'angels' grabbed every available spot, then they gave them to people they wanted to give them to. So, yeah, that shut many people out of getting those ADRs. As soon as Disney changed the policy for that ADR, everyone had a much better shot at getting an ADR. For FPs??? Seriously different scenario. No one is able to get a ton of FPs and then horde them..it's just impossible. Now...if a guest was able to access at FP dispensing machine, and was able to take 100's of FPs??? Then sure..you would have a valid point. But, they can only get one FP, per park pass, very few hours. Hardly a hoarding system.

What is immoral about selling or buying fastpasses? Is it just that it's against Disney policy, or is there some deeper aversion to it? People buy and sell park tickets, DVC points, etc.

You mean, other than the fact that they are free to anyone, to begin with??? And the fact that they do say 'not for sale' on them??? If Disney sold FPs, then I wouldn't have much of an issue with someone reselling them, even with a slight markup. But, why in heaven's name is it okay to sell something you got free!!!

Man, talk about a tempest in a teapot. This is getting ridiculous. Disney says FPs are not for sale. Disney now says that you must return with the return window..otherwise you won't be allowed to use the FP. They 'used' to allow you to return late. What is the big deal???
In all reality??? Not that large a percentage of guests used FPs late to begin with.

 

[mad madam mim78]

This is definitely off the subject but why are people on here and the Dis being so mean to each other? I mean the OP asked a hypothetical and then even clarified that he/she would not do this but just had the "random thought" while skipping past the line that maybe some would pay for a FP but that doesn't make the OP evil or immoral or whatever. Why not just either answer the question or decide you don't want to partake in such a hypothetical question. Why do we have to break down into arguments and being mean to each other. Geesh!

Gosh, in the last couple days I personally have pretty much been called "negative", "jealous", someone who is looking for something for nothing, a "hater", a person who feels entitled, and the authenticity of what I said has been questioned, etc...why? I guess because our family experienced a less than magical trip and I mentioned this on a few posts with some examples and then everyone in their defense of the great Disney decided it was ok to label and or attack me. Why not just say..."sorry you had a less than magical trip" or "oh my, sounds like you needed some pixie dust" or even "hope that doesn't happen to us" or just go on your merry way and ignore my post. By the way, to those that did say something like the above THANK YOU!! To those that didn't I don't really care that much but I do wish that people would be a bit more positive and nicer to each other. I guess this board is just some peoples outlet for "Mean Girls" syndrome and is made so much easier by being able to hide in our homes behind our little computers.

Original OP for the record I don't think you were trying to be deceitful, malicious, or immoral (LOL!).

Here's hoping that our next trip is magical as are all of yours!

Thank you!! Wasn't intending this thread to cause world war three.


Me personally I have always used my fastpasses. There was only 1 time I didn't and that was because we came back to Rock N Roller coaster and realized the FP line was soooo long. Probably 15-20 minutes....ugh. It was either ride that or watch Fantasmic...which there was no way I was missing that. I thought about giving my fast pass away...I looked around. There were TONS of people and I thought to myself. How do I pick 2 people out of this whole crowd. How do you pick? Why should I be the decider? How would I feel if I walked up to someone and gave them the fast pass and the people beside them got their feelings hurt because I didn't pick them? I'm going to leave it to the fast pass machine to decide. It's too hard for me.

 

[minnie mum]

Okay, I agree that if it is against Disney policy (i.e. they expressly tell you not to do it), then you shouldn't do it, and it's immoral to do it.

However, my interpretation of some of the earlier comments is that FP resale is somehow a prima facie immoral act, even if it weren't expressly forbidden by the rules. E.g. pps are adamant that they would never even consider doing such a thing. I could be wrong about this interpretation of others' comments.

I have no such innate aversion to FP resale. Similarly, I have no innate aversion to ticket or DVC point resale, two types of transactions that aren't expressly forbidden by Disney, but other than that seem to be morally equivalent to FP resale.

Please note your use of the term RESALE. FPs are free. If you attempt to sell them then you are selling them- NOT REselling them. Hence the difference. And I can't see why anyone would have an innate aversion to the legal reselling of a ticket or DVC point. They are definitely not morally equivalent, or legally equivalent, simply by the fact that selling a FP would not be a REsale.

 

[mad madam mim78]

I feel sorry for OP. I don't think OP was trying to stir a pot, etc. To me it sounded like "Hey, which ride would be the most valuable if there were a black market for fp's?" DH and I have done this a ton of times.

Christmas shopping, when we walk out to our parking spot to leave we joke about how we could probably get $20 for our spot.

I recently purchased the last t-shirt at my daughter's gymnastics meet and thought to myself "Boy, if I auctioned this off, what would I get?"

I have the feeling that's the frame of mind OP was in when posing the original question.

My answer is that under the old system, when a fastpass could be used anytime after the "window", I'm thinking Soarin', TT, TSM would be good money makers. Those are the parking spot up front in my previous analogy.

Problem is under the new rules, you'd have to find a buyer before the return window closes which limits your options.

I have given fast passes away before. Arrest me. Although I almost was arrested as the family I gave them to looked at me like I was completely insane, trying to scam them. But I couldn't bring myself to throw them in the trash.

I probably wouldn't sell them, as they didn't cost me anything in the first place. But it's FUN to imagine.

By golly she gets it!!! YOU WIN!!

 

[ghtx]

Please note your use of the term RESALE. FPs are free. If you attempt to sell them then you are selling them- NOT REselling them. Hence the difference. And I can't see why anyone would have an innate aversion to the legal reselling of a ticket or DVC point. They are definitely not morally equivalent, or legally equivalent, simply by the fact that selling a FP would not be a REsale.

That's a good point. Resale is the wrong word to use.

However, I don't think that's relevant vis-a-vis the morality of selling FPs. Just because I was given something for free rather than buying it doesn't mean I am disallowed to sell it. E.g. if I win a prize in a game show, I could choose to sell it rather than keep it. Or, if I got a gift that I didn't like, I could return it (i.e. sell it back) to the store. Nothing immoral with either of those acts, I think, and likewise with FP selling.

BTW, this is all just idle thoughts about selling these things if it were allowed. Since it's not allowed by Disney, it's clearly not an appropriate thing to do. And one can easily see why Disney has such a policy forbidding their sale; they don't want a whole underground market in FPs to emerge within their parks.

 

[Jennasis]

Seven pages for a forbidden topic. Is this a record?

 

[minnie mum]

. Nothing immoral with either of those acts, I think, and likewise with FP selling.

.

I get that you are simply indulging in hypothetical speculation and that you would never knowingly do anything illegal. In the same spirit of speculation then, since we know that Disney expressly forbids the sale of FPs, would we then be debating the theory that doing something illegal is ipso facto also immoral? I would tend towards the agree side of that debate, without entering the whole 'situational ethics' morass.

 

[minnie mum]

Seven pages for a forbidden topic. Is this a record?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

I had actually started to build up a little respect for your position because you seemed to have put a little thought into it in the past. The quoted post erases all that.

1. The thought of selling FPs to doe-eyed first-time parkgoers, or any other, for personal gain disgusts me. Call me self-righteous if it makes you feel better, but it is morally reprehensible and clearly against Disney policy and intent. If you disagree with that, I think you would find yourself at the far end of that particular spectrum.

2. The thought of using FPs past the softly-worded printed window--that multiple CMs volunteered to me as not set in stone--is not in the same ballpark. If you want to believe it is, go ahead.

3. FPs that I've given away were not part of a premeditated master strategy to upset the FP distribution system of a major corporation. They were last-minute decisions based on our changing desires over the course of the day. Maybe little Johnny had a change of heart about riding a particular ride or little Sue was tired and we decided it was best to return to the resort. Does it feel good to give them away? Of course. Am I so desperate to feel that so as to collect them hours earlier specifically for that feeling? Uh, no.

You now join a select group of posters who I no longer engage with on this subject. Our two positions are too radically different for it to make sense for either of us, and it just wastes everyone else's time.

You seem like a particularly angry person, your posts are mostly confrontational, and I'm not sure why I continue to engage you, yet here I am doing it again.

This is a silly analogy you are making - gifting unusable FP is simply a nice thing to do, and to make a case against it because it is "against policy" to me shows that you don't get what WDW is all about and what makes it different from any other theme park.

The policy of "non-transferable" is likely in place to prevent abuses like selling, or hiring someone to be a FP runner for you. It is definately not in place because my 7yo is too tired to stay in the park.

I used to use FP after the return window, I will still give away FP we're not going to use, and we will ask to check into our resort before 1:00 pm if our room is available. Call me inconsistent and a rule breaker, but nothing you are going to say is going to convince me that any of this was wrong.

again

How exactly could one hoard fastpasses under the old system? Unless you somehow came up with a way to circumvent the inherent ties that govern when you could get your next pass, then I'd offer that you are misusing the term "hoard."

The days of late fastpass use are over. Goodie for you. Claim what you want, but printed Disney operating procedures allowed for late (but never early) fastpass use. That has now changed.

As for giving away passes - you are missing the point. I would agree that one ought not get passes for a ride if they don't intend to use them, but (a) if they change their mind, where is the harm in giving said passes away and (b) who would actually take the time to pull passes in this manner, anyway?

Non transferable is there to prevent you from selling them. CMs redistribute passes all the time. I've had a CM commend us for giving passes away.

You seem to have an unhealthy hangup with rules. Chill.

and one more time...

seems I didn't really have anything to add, enough was said!

 

[goofyernmost]

I get that you are simply indulging in hypothetical speculation and that you would never knowingly do anything illegal. In the same spirit of speculation then, since we know that Disney expressly forbids the sale of FPs, would we then be debating the theory that doing something illegal is ipso facto also immoral? I would tend towards the agree side of that debate, without entering the whole 'situational ethics' morass.

Personally, I don't think that selling one is really illegal...as in some statute was violated and the cops are coming to get you. It is, however, against the wishes of Disney...the legal owner of the property. They have a good reason. Would you want a family theme park to suddenly be overrun by a bunch of Fastpass scalpers? It's just too messy. Morally, I don't see it as a commandment breaker unless you interpret the selling of a free item to a slightly dim individual as stealing.

This is a theme park, not some religious shrine. In other words, I doubt that you might be having a visit from a group of FBI agents over it and it is also doubtful, with all the other problems in the world, God would take the time out to pour his/her wrath down on you.

Some things are just internally right or wrong and that is the biggest part of the guideline. The second biggest is that if Disney finds you scalping FP's there is a good chance that your supply train will derail quickly.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Not all that hard to understand...what difference does it make if I took 5 FP's, within the time periods I was allowed to, and then chose to use them later in the day, vs at the time of the 'return window'? If I used them at the return time, fine, if I used them later in the day, fine. No one was denied a FP because I held onto my FPs vs using them at the stated return times. It just made no difference. I guess that if everyone ran to the FP windows, and grabbed as many as humanly possible, and did that at all FP areas, as soon as they could, then sure...maybe someone would be shut out. But in all reality? Just isn't an issue.

You are right not hard to understand. Dont know why it is for you though. If people hoarded FPs just because they "might" use them later in the day or "just in case" or because they wanted to spread "pixie dust" then it would stop people from getting FPs at TSMM or Soaring because of the actions of these hoarders by taking some of the limited supply of FPs. It was an issue for guests that couldnt get FPs for TSMM and Soarin.

They didn't do anything against Disney policy. Disney allowed people to return past the stated return time...so, that, in fact, was the Disney policy. And Disney truly has no issue with my handing off my unused FP to someone else. I never handed one over if it wasn't able to be used within the return time stated on the FP though. Too many people were afraid to use them past the return window.

Again, and you must have comprehension issue in play again because the FP policy didnt change but enforcement of it did.

Why does Disney have non-nontransferable on the back of its FPs? That is pretty cut and dry that you arent to "transfer" them to another person and thus against Disney policy. Amazing the verbal gymnastics people will try to do when defending their abuse of Disney policy and systems

All I can say is that anything that comes out of a CMs mouth, is pretty much what Disney policy is. Yeah, there are times you may get two different answers..but that is seldom found at the park level.

Really, come on. You cant really believe that. It has been reported that even pre FP enforcement days, that certain CMs at attractions wouldnt let guest use FPs past the window. In the 2012 Unofficial Guide, it even mentions this and it recommends to return later when another CM is working and they should let you use a late FP. SO..according to your logic and words, prior to March 7th and FP enforcement, if a CM said someone couldnt use a late FP then it was what Disney's policy was? What kind of flawed thought process are you using to come to that conclusion?

FPs are hugely different than ADRs for CRT. I was around for that 'frenzy' and it wasn't pretty!!! Those 'angels' grabbed every available spot, then they gave them to people they wanted to give them to. So, yeah, that shut many people out of getting those ADRs. As soon as Disney changed the policy for that ADR, everyone had a much better shot at getting an ADR. For FPs??? Seriously different scenario. No one is able to get a ton of FPs and then horde them..it's just impossible. Now...if a guest was able to access at FP dispensing machine, and was able to take 100's of FPs??? Then sure..you would have a valid point. But, they can only get one FP, per park pass, very few hours. Hardly a hoarding system.

The are same in regard to the CRT ressies of the past in that a group of people were acting as a secondary distributor. But the difference is that the FPs are non-transferable and thus against Disney policy.