Sell HHI to buy on property

[cruisin5]

I'm looking for opinions about selling a HHI contract to buy on property.

We purchased in 2001 and own two contracts, one for 220 and one for 30 points. I'm 54, DH is 63. Two kids halfway through college who aren't really interested in Disney though we had a great trip to HHI in May!

Owning DVC has been great, no regrets. However, the rising dues, food costs and ticket prices have us rethinking our close relationship with the mouse. That 2k+ dues bill was really the final straw. It's almost tripled since we purchased!

The 220 point contract should sell for about $16k, which we could swap about 160 AKV or SSR points, 120 at BLT. The 30 point contract would be kept for blue card benefits. We rarely stay in studios.

The upsides:

• Sell HHI while it's still worth something.
• Get a longer contract.
• Lowered dues.
• 11 month advantage, though we've never had a problem at 7 months.

The downside is not having 250 points a year to play with!

Thoughts?

 

[lovin'fl]

We have 3 HHI contracts (50, 50 and 25). I listed the two 50 pointers back in Nov when then dues for 2019 was leaked. ANd with the Jan 19 (I think that was the date) restrictions to perks...I thought maybe they'd sell. From Nov to right before that Jan date I got zero offers and even lowered the price. Then right before the restrictions date someone lowballed me (like $25 below list). Then we went to HHI for MLK weekend and remembered why we LOVE HHI so much so I pulled them off market and sold my OKW contract instead.

We too, with 3 kids in college, and all the things WDW and DVC have been doing...we're disenchanted with WDW too. I am just not too into all the pre-planning, IT trouble with the pre-planning...then going on trip to wait in lines and worm our way through crowds (and strollers, wagons, scooters, dogs). Then our adult places are all getting made into kid character things (specifically looking at you, Artist Point, but others as well). Add in all the price hikes. We can't get the FP or ADRs we want. The DVC rooms are dirty and banged up (recent stays were BLT and SSR and they are in need of renovations). Just not worth the $$$ anymore.

So we actually decided to use our points for HHI more (we have the 125 HHI plus 255 at BWV and 70 at CCV). I have a trip booked for my mom and I in Aug, then a 3BR GV booked for MLK weekend again and likely will book more next year). We decided to, MAYBE, do WDW once a year and then do the HHI and cruising (NOT Disney cruises). And we have the Hawaii cruise booked for 2021 and will use points to stay at Aulani for a few nights pre-cruise. Might give Vero a second visit. But no more APs. No more 2, 3, 4 WDW trips a year. Done.

I digress...back to your post. We are keeping the HHI because they are more points for what we paid ($50pp). We could sell and make money but if we replaced them with another resort (probably add to our 70 CCV) then we wouldn't get very many. So we're going with more for our money and keeping them. Maybe you could sell the 30 pointer. That will sell for more and likely quickly. Another deterrent is that you have to claim the profit on taxes. We'll have to do that for our OKW we just sold. Not sure how it complicates things but DH does our taxes himself.

 

[Crabby_Dan]

I’ve pondered it too. We have 175 HHI points. We love HHI, but use the bulk of our points at 7 months to stay at WDW. ( I love staying at Poly with my cheap HHI points, lol)

One thing I discovered about HHI- We have been able to pay cash for rooms in the off season ( with the DVC discount) for less than we pay in annual dues for the equivalent number of points. So it made more sense to use them on property and just pay cash.

The new problem for us is the difficulty to use the HHI points at 7 months. So I opted for a “no decision” decision and bought VWL ( sorry, BRV) points and kept the HHI points.

It’s hard to let go of my points.

BTW, for the record we’re 60 and 63. The 2042 contract end is not a factor for us. In fact it may be a plus

 

[cruisin5]

BTW, for the record we’re 60 and 63. The 2042 contract end is not a factor for us. In fact it may be a plus

I'll be 77 in 2042, DH 87. It's not a factor for him but I think I may still be going to WDW with my yet to be born grandchildren!

I really need to think about the 2042 deadline. I hadn't considered BRV - that second bathroom at AKV/BLT is so handy.

 

[Dean]

I'm looking for opinions about selling a HHI contract to buy on property.

We purchased in 2001 and own two contracts, one for 220 and one for 30 points. I'm 54, DH is 63. Two kids halfway through college who aren't really interested in Disney though we had a great trip to HHI in May!

Owning DVC has been great, no regrets. However, the rising dues, food costs and ticket prices have us rethinking our close relationship with the mouse. That 2k+ dues bill was really the final straw. It's almost tripled since we purchased!

The 220 point contract should sell for about $16k, which we could swap about 160 AKV or SSR points, 120 at BLT. The 30 point contract would be kept for blue card benefits. We rarely stay in studios.

The upsides:

• Sell HHI while it's still worth something.
• Get a longer contract.
• Lowered dues.
• 11 month advantage, though we've never had a problem at 7 months.

The downside is not having 250 points a year to play with!

Thoughts?

You're going to pay a premium to sell and rebuy and you likely won't get enough dollars to make it worthwhile in the long run. If you were downsizing and moving down in cost, that'd be another matter. You'll also give up bing qualified for the perks you now have. I wouldn't unless you have to have something that the current contracts won't work for. Realistically I don't think you'll get $16K out of 220 HHI points, more like $15K roughly.

 

[lovin'fl]

I'll be 77 in 2042, DH 87. It's not a factor for him but I think I may still be going to WDW with my yet to be born grandchildren!

I really need to think about the 2042 deadline. I hadn't considered BRV - that second bathroom at AKV/BLT is so handy.

Meh...DH and I will be 69 in 2042. And we're not worried by that end date. My MIL and FIL do WDW with us as SIL also owns DVC. They are 75 and really really struggling at WDW now. They go with us this fall and it might be the last trip for them (or one of the last). My own mom went with DDs and I in 2017 when she was 69 and had a tough time too and does not ever want to return. All 3 (grandparents) have mobility issues (with knees and back) and cannot handle the heat. They aren't the sort to get a wheelchair/scooter either. Now, us kids are all mid 40s to 50 and the grandkids are all 13-25 (and the 13 year old's family hates WDW). So, I hope I have older grandkids by 2042. And if my own kids still want to continue to go, they can buy new points and treat DH and I (if we even still want to go). Admittedly, we are in a lull these days but are hanging onto our 450 points for when we do have grandbabies.

I wouldn't buy AKV and, in fact, we did own there and resold after 2-3 years. AKV is easily booked at 7 months out. As is SSR. But AKV is higher buy in and higher dues. BLT is way high buy in. But BLT is tougher to book at 7 months. But you would get way less points for the $$ your 220 HHI brings in. Maybe work out math...don't forget the broker commission you pay to sell plus the taxes you'll own on the profits and closing costs to buy. Then calculate what you'd save on dues the next 13 years. I think you may be at a loss and not savings.

 

[jerseyduke]

(SNIP)
I am just not too into all the pre-planning, IT trouble with the pre-planning...then going on trip to wait in lines and worm our way through crowds (and strollers, wagons, scooters, dogs).
(SNIP)

Not on topic, but all the pre-planning is my biggest pet peeve! I'm fine with needing an ADR for the best (or most in demand) restaurants, but I just so wish I could get up at my resort and get breakfast (at my resort) at a sit down place without having thought about it 6 months earlier.

I was at MK over Memorial day, and the new stroller restrictions seemed to have made a very large difference.

Dogs will become a problem, as people with zero need for a service dog continue to get a service dog vest for the family dog just because they love it so.

 

[cruisin5]

You're going to pay a premium to sell and rebuy, and you likely won't get enough dollars to make it worthwhile in the long run. If you were downsizing and moving down in cost, that'd be another matter. You'll also give up bing qualified for the perks you now have. I wouldn't unless you have to have something that the current contracts won't work for. Realistically I don't think you'll get $16K out of 220 HHI points, more like $15K roughly.

Why would I lose the perks if I keep the 30 point HHI contract? I know if I sell the contract there will be restrictions for the new owner.

You're right about the amount I'd get. The brokerage fee is 8.5%, and the points would probably go for around $68. I'll run the numbers today.

 

[lovin'fl]

I did some math...looks like after all expenses (rough estimate and I think you may get around $68pp for the HHI 220 for about $13,688 after commissions)...
You may get about 95 BLT, 130 AKV or 140 SSR points. Then you may have to pay some taxes on the HHI profit (I forget what you paid for them but probably way less than $68). By the way, on my 50 HHI points I was offered about that and smaller contracts typically sell for more. I had it listed at like $89 and they offered like $64 and negotiated quite a bit but they wouldn't budge on about $74.

 

[lovin'fl]

Why would I lose the perks if I keep the 30 point HHI contract? I know if I sell the contract there will be restrictions for the new owner.

You're right about the amount I'd get. The brokerage fee is 8.5%, and the points would probably go for around $68. I'll run the numbers today.

You'd keep the perks as you bought in 2001, correct? I would have lost perks on my 2006 OKW we sold but in same membership/UY I have 55 direct that we bought in 2014 (pre must have 75 direct) so they stay. In my other membership/UY I also have the pre 75 direct (50 direct in2014) plus the HHI bought in 2012. Confusing but both my UY/membership are blue card and I think you're 30 would still be blue card too.

Any direct before 2/25/18 would have blue card (after that date you needed 75 direct). Any resale before 3/20/11 would also be grandfaathered. As of 4/3/16 you had to buy at least 25 direct to have blue card.

 

[Dean]

Why would I lose the perks if I keep the 30 point HHI contract? I know if I sell the contract there will be restrictions for the new owner.

You're right about the amount I'd get. The brokerage fee is 8.5%, and the points would probably go for around $68. I'll run the numbers today.

if you kept the 30 you'd retain most of the perks and all that are of value.

 

[lovin'fl]

If they keep the 30, bought resale OR direct in 2001, they are grandfathered in to ALL the perks. Just would only be able to use those 30 for things like DCL or Disney collection.

 

[GoUgaDawgs]

Hey cruising,
I am in agreement with everyone here that you would pay too big of a premium to swap resorts without much in the way of an advantage since like you said those resorts which you are looking are the ones most open at 7 months.

If you are looking to take the sting out of the hhi maintenance fees you could mentally commit to renting out a certain number of points (maybe 70?) each year. Even at 13.50 a point from David's without much work, you would end up with 150 points but paying about 6.25 per point net dues (220 points x 8.56= 1883) - (70 rented points x 1350= 945) = 938 dollars per year / 150 points = 6.25. (any potential rental taxes not included in this calculation)

Of course there is the added benefit of this plan allowing you to use more or less points in any given year. In 2042 should you want more out of the mouse I'm sure you could pick up an ssr contract on the cheap.

That and with your grandfathered points you would be able to give Riviera, reflections, and any potential future resorts a try.

Best of luck!

 

[Dean]

If they keep the 30, bought resale OR direct in 2001, they are grandfathered in to ALL the perks. Just would only be able to use those 30 for things like DCL or Disney collection.

Exactly, effectively they'd lose the ones that are of no real value anyway.

 

[cruisin5]

I "ran the numbers", it looks like I could sell HHI, buy BRV and still come out ahead by $1200. What am I missing? I used 4% as the dues increase year over year and I used a high sell price for the 220 BRV. Understanding that I can only use the BRV points at the L14, I think I'm happy spending at BRV in December. I'd still have the 30 points from the other contract to use at DVC2.

Decided on BRV as we do love WL. BLT would be my first choice but it's too expensive.

Looking at the dues increases is quite sobering.

We paid $75/pp for each contract, called member administration today.

I've gotta be missing something.... The earning potential of the $8500k we'd need to pay now? (will pay cash). And in reality, we don't want to buy 220, more like 125 but I wanted to compare apples to apples.

 

[lovin'fl]

I guess one thing to point out would be that HHI went up a lot due to hurricane and is SUPPOSED to kind level out and not go up SO much in the next few years. And I suspect that BRV will go up a whole lot next year as they try to even it out with CCV. Each year the resorts all increase different rates. Someone said, not long ago, that they suspect DVC is trying to even out all the resorts. If HHI goes up 5% in 2020 while BRV goes up 8%...then 2021 same kind of deal....

Though one plus, as you mention, is booking at BRV in December which is tough. That's why we added the 70 CCV. If you are set on doing this, do it to buy a place that's is tough to book unless you own.

 

[gscott8075]

Like you, we love HHI and have 18 years of vacations there. We re-evaluated this past year and sold both HHI contracts. Both contracts sold in less than a week for much more than prices mentioned here. Each had TY and NY points.

I have posted our concerns in other threads.

- MF increases are outrageous.
- The aborted 2019 point changes were reminiscent of what happened in 2008 or so - then we could stay for 5 nights for 165 points and it changed to 205. As a result we had to buy a second contract.
- In 2001, MF cost for a 2br during the week was $100. In 2019, $360. (Point reallocation and MF increases)
- Rule tightening. This year, no more kayaks.
- Kids are grown and prefer getting a house in Sea Pines.
- Did not like the refurb if the rooms.

We made the right call. It was a great 18 years. No regrets. But, it was time.

 

[PatMcDuck]

We swapped resorts last year, but the numbers were far different. We had 200 at BCV. Bought 25 more, at WL BR. (unknowingly, about 10 days before the announced change to 75 direct points for perks). Sold the 200. For a lot. Bought 200 more (RESALE loaded contract with 2017 and 2018 points) at WL BR, for total of 225 at WL BR. We came out even pretty much, after all the commissions, bonus the banked points and now own at our favorite resort. We are ok with the length of contract, we are in our early 60s.