Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[crazy4wdw]

Segways spark suit vs. Disney

3 disabled people say they need the motorized scooters to get around

Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writer
November 10, 2007

Three disabled people who say they rely on two-wheeled Segways to move about sued Walt Disney World in federal court Friday, seeking to force the resort into letting disabled visitors like themselves ride the motorized, upright scooters in Disney theme parks.

The three individuals -- a man and woman from Illinois and a woman from Iowa -- also asked that a judge in U.S. District Court in Orlando certify their suit as a class action, potentially representing numerous disabled users of Segways nationwide.

Mahala Ault of Illinois, Stacie Rhea of Iowa and Dan Wallace of Illinois say in the lawsuit that they use Segways as mobility aids but that Disney has denied them permission to use the vehicles at Disney World. Ault, 33, has multiple sclerosis. Rhea has amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. Wallace lost his left foot in a 1999 accident. Each of them can stand but cannot walk far, the suit states.

They are among an estimated 4,000 to 7,000 similarly disabled people who have turned to the self-balancing, electric Segways as mobility tools, according to the suit.

Introduced in 2001, Segways weren't designed as mobility devices for people with such disabilities. And while thousands may consider them a useful alternative to wheelchairs, their $5,000-plus cost is not normally eligible for health-insurance coverage or state or federal assistance.

Still, the lawsuit contends that Disney violated the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires businesses to make "reasonable modifications in policies, practices or procedures" to accommodate disabled customers. The suit's goals and arguments are similar to those raised by a group called Disability Rights Advocates For Technology, or DRAFT, which is pushing for nationwide acceptance of Segways' use by the disabled. But neither the three plaintiffs in Friday's lawsuit nor their lawyers are connected with DRAFT, said Nancy A. Johnson, an attorney with Dempsey & Associates in Orlando and one of the plaintiffs' lawyers.

A Disney spokeswoman said Friday that the company had not had a chance to review the suit and so would not comment directly on it.

A report in the Orlando Sentinel last month detailed DRAFT's dispute with Disney and SeaWorld. Both theme-park companies argued then that they meet the needs of their disabled guests by allowing wheelchairs and conventional motorized scooters, and that they have safety concerns about the swifterSegways, particularly on crowded walkways. They said they also don't know of a practical way to determine whether a Segway user entering a park has sufficient training or experience.

"We've made our position very clear on these Segways in our parks," Disney spokeswoman Jacquee Polak said Friday. "Our primary concern is the safety of all our guests and our cast members. We have a long history of being a leader in creating accessible experiences for our guests with disabilities."

In their lawsuit, Ault, Rhea and Wallace state that they do not own a wheelchair or conventional scooter.

"The biggest thing I keep hearing is it is a dignity thing," said Johnson, the lawyer. "People say, 'I don't want to be put in a wheelchair.' "

 

[ChrisFL]

Quite ironic in Disney's case

 

[I'mNoPrince]

I totally agree with Disney on this.

Even though they do the Segway tours they watch to see if that person is able to use it before going out into public space.
Even ten it's not that crowded as they finish.

They offer other means so the person would not have to own a wheelchair or scooter.


If they do allow them That might just help me decided to get one. As they can't deny able bodied persons from using devises that the Disabled use.
You just wouldn't get an Guest Assistance card

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I saw a chair on tv that was $25,000 that adjusted from being a motorized scooter to something segway like so the user can "stand up". I wonder if Disney would allow something like that in?

 

[merryweather20]

I saw a chair on tv that was $25,000 that adjusted from being a motorized scooter to something segway like so the user can "stand up". I wonder if Disney would allow something like that in?

Yes, there are also mobility aids where the person would remain standing during use, they would have to avoid rides and transfer to a manual chair (if possible) for specific rides, the difference here is that they are purpose built mobility aids and the Segway is not.

 

[MassJester]

We use Segways in several high crowd work enviornments and the users need to go through a pretty strict training program. Fast moving vehicles and crowds are a tough combination, and it would be difficult to ensure that visitors who brought one to use in the park was sufficiently trained (or even able) to use the device safely.

 

[rantnnravin]

i disagree with Disney on this one. Their position is discriminatory.
my mom has herniated disks and is unable to sit for extended periods of time. The use of a wheelchair or scooter would actually exacerbate her condition. The segway would be a superb way for her to be able to tour the theme parks.
If they're that worried about the user's ability to navigate, perhaps they can use the Epcot Segway area as a certification ground of sorts, allowing users to demonstrate their ability to maneuver & such.
Honestly, just as they can have a "no running" policy, they can ask that segway users maintain a minimal speed - or have their own that are dialed down to a slower speed for guest's with with medical documentation to use .
And if safety's truly the case, i've seen some scooter users in the parks that i wished had gone through some licensing procedure

 

[minnie61650]

We use Segways in several high crowd work enviornments and the users need to go through a pretty strict training program. Fast moving vehicles and crowds are a tough combination, and it would be difficult to ensure that visitors who brought one to use in the park was sufficiently trained (or even able) to use the device safely.

I have limited mobility and at home I use a walker or an electric mobility scooter.
When visiting local stores, or vacationing at WDW, Las Vegas and other destinations where a lot of walking is the norm I use a mobility scooter (ECV).
Most mobility scooters have a speed of about 5 MPH or less.
I agree Segways can go much faster and should not be brought into parks by visitors . As I understand it, the ADA won't allow Disney to challenge the disability of an individual. Someone who is wealthy may be unlikely to see any 'prestige' attached to driving a scooter, but they might think using a personal Segway would be a fun and easy way to get around the parks.

Just my 2 cents

 

[minnie61650]

i disagree with Disney on this one. Their position is discriminatory.
my mom has herniated disks and is unable to sit for extended periods of time. The use of a wheelchair or scooter would actually exacerbate her condition. The segway would be a superb way for her to be able to tour the theme parks.
If they're that worried about the user's ability to navigate, perhaps they can use the Epcot Segway area as a certification ground of sorts, allowing users to demonstrate their ability to maneuver & such.
Honestly, just as they can have a "no running" policy, they can ask that segway users maintain a minimal speed - or have their own that are dialed down to a slower speed for guest's with with medical documentation to use .
And if safety's truly the case, i've seen some scooter users in the parks that i wished had gone through some licensing procedure

That is the problem. Under the American Disability Act Disney cannot require a vistor to have a Dr's note or proof of Disability. They also cannot require that a user of an ECV/mibility scooter go through some kind of training or licensing procedure before renting an EVC out.
They can however require the driver be a certain age.
Disney and most of the Orlando scooter rental places require that the driver who rents the mobility scooter must be at least 18 years of age.

Just my two cents.

 

[rantnnravin]

That is the problem. Under the American Disability Act Disney cannot require a vistor to have a Dr's note or proof of Disability. They also cannot require that a user of an ECV/mibility scooter go through some kind of training or licensing procedure before renting an EVC out.
They can however require the driver be a certain age.
Disney and most of the Orlando scooter rental places require that the driver who rents the mobility scooter must be at least 18 years of age.

Just my two cents.

i think we've missed the forest for the trees here.
first, my point was that an ECV or wheelchair is not appropriate for all disabilities.
second, it's discriminatory to allow for only certain types of disabilities while excluding accomodations for others.
third, while a patron may not use a mobility assistance device in all life contexts, the theme park is one in which someone with diabilities exacerbated by conditions such as extensive walking might use a mobility device such as those who rent ECVs for use in the parks, although they have little trouble getting around at home without them - therefore, the cost of a personal ECV or the $25,000 for the LEVO might just be a bit cost-prohibitive for those who would like to visit the theme parks once every few years
lastly, being 18 years of age does not ensure proficiency with said devices, which is why my last comment was made tongue in cheek with requisite rolling smilie.

and, FWIW, if medical conditions can be challenged for a GAC, why not for the use of a Disney-owned segway for use in the parks?

 

[merryweather20]

You don't have ot be 18 to use an ECV in the park. If a child brings their own ECV they are welcome to use it. Its only renting the park ECV's that requires 18 years of age.

I'm not sure what you mean by "if medical conditions can be challenged for a GAC" There is no need for a doctor's note or any medical records to obtain a GAC.

You mentioned being concerned with the ECV's which top out at 5-6 mph or less and are low to the ground. So imagine how others feel about a Segway at 12 mph.

Reading through some of the news articles, this doesn't seem to be an issue of functionality for the litigators. I keep hearing "dignity" and "stuck in a wheel-chair" not ease of use, prevention of pain, and increasing endurance. It seems more like the plaintiffs and their lawyer have a skewed perception about using mobility aids, rather than an actual concern about accessibility.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Reading through some of the news articles, this doesn't seem to be an issue of functionality for the litigators. I keep hearing "dignity" and "stuck in a wheel-chair" not ease of use, prevention pain promotion of endurance. It seems more like they have a skewed perception about using mobility aids, rather than an actual concern about accessibility.

Yes, I do rather take offense at the use of language in this article; I use a wheelchair to get about, and do not feel at all 'stuck' or 'undignified' in it. Anyway, that's a bit besides the point.

I understand that for some disabilities, a Segway is equal to, or better than a wheelchair as an assistive device. However, if Disney allows Segways in, they will have to allow anyone to use a Segway within the parks. This won't be a problem with those who use them daily as a medical aid, but how long will it be before rental companies begin renting them out to guests as a convenient mode of transport. These things can go up to 12mph and not everyone will be all that careful with it. It's an accident waiting to happen.

As the Segway is not registered as an official mobility aid, nor do the makers want to fight for such registration, Disney does not legally have to allow the vehicles into the parks, any more than they do wagons (which some people use as a mobility aid for smaller children). I think, therefore, the lawsuit may fail, but that's still to be seen.

In an ideal world, Disney would be able to allow Segways in, only those who needed them would use them, everyone would drive safely, and no one would cut anyone else up. Unfortunately, that is not the case. With the greater speeds, high centre of gravity and high line of sight, it would be extremely dangerous if anyone, especially a child, wandered in front of the Segway without looking (this happens to me in my wheelchair SO often).

 

[minnie61650]

You don't have ot be 18 to use an ECV in the park. If a child brings their own ECV they are welcome to use it. Its only renting the park ECV's that requires 18 years of age........

.

Sorry, I did mean to say that a person must be 18 years old to rent one of Disney's ECV's. I did not word that sentence correctly.

Thanks for pointing my error out to me.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I have a few comments here. Let's look at some speed numbers.

2.0 MPH - This is the normal walking pace for most people visiting WDW. It is also the speed that WDW sets as maximum on the ECVs it rents to Guests. This can be a very reasonable speed as many users are paying more attention to the scenery and architecture than to the pedestrians around them.

4.5 MPH - This is a very fast walking pace. You find it used by people from places like New Yorkwhere walking long distances quickly is common. It is also the normal maximum speed for many ECVs, including the off-site rentals. I will often drive my ECV at this speed when I am by myself in the parks. However, I am concentrating on the people around me, and in or near my path, and not sightseeing. I will not travel at this speed when I am with others or when I am in a crowded area.

12.5 MPH - This is the maximum speed of a Segway with the "unlimited" (red) key. It is also the World Record speed for marathon runners. As mentioned earlier, the manufacturer of Segways has not asked for it to be certified as a medical device. If it is certified as a medical device, or Disney treats it as a medical device, then there could be no restriction on people bringing in ther own (or a rented) Segway.

Even if Disney states the "green key" only, there is nothing to prevent people from playing games with the keys or having a red key in their pocket. And there are too many people around with a "me first" mentality to state that this will not happen.

Guest Safety is instilled into Cast Members as the number one priority over everything else. Allowing Segway's into WDW will definitely be compromising Guest Safety. As long as they are not certified as medical devices they can be prohibited. Possibly there could be a justification on a case by case basis, but I am sure Disney does not want to open that can of worms.

And Segways are not idiot-proof. At least with an ECV if you take your hands off the controls it will stop.

And, by the way, for rental of an ECV not only does Disney require the user be at least 18, but that is also the rule from the various off-site companies.

 

[Tinkerbell1986]

I personally think Disney have a right to stop people using Segways in the park.

Those 3 people COULD have used wheelchairs or ECVs in the parks and they were therefore not discriminated against. My partner is a wheelchair user and when he read the comments about being "stuck" in a wheelchair or being "undignified" he was quite hurt. Those who need a mobility device which enables them to stand up are likely to have one of their own which they can bring to the park, so would not need to use a Segway.

Segways are NOT mobility devices and WDW have every right to prohibit their use, particularly when considering the speed. I think we should be grateful they are thinking about their guests safety.

If Disney allowed their use, then non-disabled people would probably start renting them to use in the parks and there would be swarms of people charging around at high speeds on these things. How much would you enjoy the parks then?

Just a separate thought but something that has been mentioned in this thread, I think Disney SHOULD require proof of disability for GACs, rental of wheelchairs/ECVs etc. In the UK when we go to theme parks we have to take my partners Disabled Badge (for parking) in with us to get a special assistance wristband. It seems to work very well.

Laura x

 

[pugdog]

Segways are NOT mobility devices...
Laura x

Exactly, according to current federal law Segways are not a legal mobility device. So until the ADA is amended to include them WDW has every right to ban them and no lawsuit will hold water.

No matter how many people feel they should or shouldn't be used it's a mute point until federal laws are changed.

 

[Shorty82]

Just a separate thought but something that has been mentioned in this thread, I think Disney SHOULD require proof of disability for GACs, rental of wheelchairs/ECVs etc. In the UK when we go to theme parks we have to take my partners Disabled Badge (for parking) in with us to get a special assistance wristband. It seems to work very well.

Laura x

The thing is that they CAN'T require proof. To do so would be to violate the law. Also, not everybody who needs a WC or ECV to make it through the day at WDW have proof. For instance, on my trip back in July my SIL used a WC for our day in the Magic Kingdom as she was very sore due to an undiagnosed disability she has and would have never made it through the day without one. She is working on getting it diagnosed but until she does she has no proof of the disability.

 

[erikthewise]

I hope this one goes down in flames. Segways for disabled guests should no more be permitted in the parks than ATV's. I can understand that some people may want to use them, but the likely result would be to increase the ranks of the disabled.

Not only can they result in painful injury at 5 mph, but Cheshire Figment has pointed out they can go up to 12 mph, and there is no practical way to prevent them from being used at this speed. 12 mph doesn't seem like much until you see someone operating one at this speed. At 12 mph they have six times the kinetic energy they do at 5 mph so you can imagine how much more damage they could do.

Disney's responsibility to maintain safe conditions in the parks far outweighs any Disability Act rights, should they exist in this case. A couple posters have pointed out they do not.

 

[GoN2WDW]

What a horrible idea! Segways in the parks. Don't get me wrong, those people who have a true disability and find it medically necessary to use a ADA recognized piece of equipment should have every right to do so. However, after the number of times I've gotten run into and over by wheelchairs, motorized vehicles, wagons, strollers, etc. the last thing I want to see in Disney is a large, fast-moving, heavy piece of machinery. And how are they going to prevent people who don't need them from using them? Just the last time we visited WDW we got some snacks and sat down to relax and wait for the evening parade when a group came over with a woman in a wheel chair and tried crowding us out of our places. (Anymore, we don't even flinch and hold our ground, we've been had too many times.) After about 10 minutes the woman in the wheelchair stood up said, "Whoever wants to sit down, go ahead. I'm going to head back to the room." And off she walked down Main Street and out of the park! It is the tens of hundreds of incidents like that and when the family of 10 with someone in a wheelchair because they have an ACE bandage on their ankle jumps to the front of the bus line after we've already waited for 20 minutes and can't get on the bus, that make my family frustrated. When I see those families with children with severe disabilities who are carefully navigating their way around the park, I thank God my DD is healthy and I will gladly make way, have them go ahead in line, get special treatment from characters/cast members or assist them if they ask. It is those people who take advantage of the system that I hope feel really guilty when they see someone who is truly in need.

Back to the Segways, I cannot imagine what injuries would stack up if they are ever forced to allow them in the parks. If that becomes the case, I hope those injured file suit directly against the person operating the Segway and not Disney. My DD and DH said that if they are eventually allowed they're starting a "Block The Segways" campaign!

Yep, I know I'm going to get blasted.....

 

[theantibride]

"Still, the lawsuit contends that Disney violated the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires businesses to make "reasonable modifications in policies, practices or procedures" to accommodate disabled customers."

Disney has met that standard with wheelchairs and th elike. I have a chronic back conditiont hat flares up. When it does I rent the wheelchair for the day at WDW -- not an Electric one because I can power it myself and I thinkt he electric ones should only be for those who really need it and not lazy people who don't wanan walk (we've all seen them -- there are those who have legitimate reasons for needing them and those who don't). When I need to stop sitting I get up and walk with the wheelchair sort of like a walker. It helps keep the weight off my back but let's me stretch some as well. There are companies that make wheelchairs that can be standing -- this is NOT the same as a Segway and those wheelchairs are allowed in the parks -- I saw someone with one not but 3 weeks ago. I sincerely doubt this lawsuit would win because Segways are not medically approved devices for the handicapable. Disney meets every standard the law requires and more. Are these people planning on suing every place that won't let them bring their Segway in? The grocery store? The drug store? A restaurant? Doubtful, but they'll sue Disney because it's a big corporation and they think they can get money out of them. And I can tell you the restaurant my fiance works at would not let them in. They won't even let kids in the rolly sneakers in anymore. I think it's just a cheap shot to get money, honestly. Now please don't think of this as disrespect for anyone with any sort of disability. I have a very near and dear friend who must use a wheelchair and an aunt who now uses one because of MS. But if either of them came to me and said "I want to roam about a busy theme park in a Segway" I'd tell them they were nuts and to get in the wheelchair and enjoy the free ride of having someone chauffer them around. Because I have been rammed into with those electric wheelchairs and I have had my feet run over by them because people weren't watching where they were going or it was just too crowded. And being bumped and rolled over hurt plenty! I don't want to know how much being rammed into by a Segway hurts. Of course, if I got injured I suppose I could always sue to prohibit their use in the park, right? After all, turnabout is fair play! JMO!