See it can be done...I found Ei$ner's replacement

[DisneyKidds]

So in reality the only "Disney standard" for you guys is "anything that makes money for The Walt Disney Company".

Yeah, that's what "we" said . What was it Hope said about..............

This is why I don't post as much, there is no interest in even knowing the thought process behind other people's postings.

If this isn't the best example of this I don't know what is. It is junk like this that leaves me with no energy or desire to continue with the conversation. Serves me right for trying again.

How shallow.

If that ain't the pot calling the kettle............After a hiatus this is the best you can come up with? Sorry, my turn to say...............how shallow. Doesn't matter what you put in your follow up post, your first obviously shows you have no desire for any real conversation .

Baron...............

You see, without 100% dedication to THE Philosophy, Disney is NOT Disney.

As you saw from my previous posts I agree. However, I still maintain just saying that doesn't draw us any closer to any conclusions. You are right...Disney is NOT Disney, at least not the Disney you fell in love with. It hasn't been for some time.........yet it still warrants a few unending posts . Is that out of blind belief or sheer hope that THE Philosophy will be 100% restored.....................or is it because even in the absence of that restoration Disney is still all that and a bag of chips? OK, fewer chips in the bag perhaps...........but still Lays and you can't eat just one. Not that settling for fewer chips is OK..............but we have to make informed, educated decisions in the real world. All of us have done that and accepted certain things on certain levels...................and since we are all still here...................Heck, even Mr. HB (wasn't he in car 4?) has a trip planned next year.

If it were dedicated to excellence and innovation, service rather than commodities, creation rather than distribution, then THE Philosophy is naturally applied and all it takes is someone with a little focus and vision to bring it all together.

Yes, just as Mufasa said to Simba from the great beyond............Disney is more than what it has become. However, while Disney today doesn't operate under THE Philosophy, I still believe that Disney provides quite a bit of excellence and innovation, they still create, they still provide someting no other can, in a way no other can. I won't disregard what they have been achieving for being short of 100%. Whomever likes can say that makes someone a snowglobe owing brand monkey that dons rose colored glasses, but that would just highlight their ignorance.

Baron, I know you and others disagree. We all have been down that road before...............and AV's posts demonstrate why it is futile to travel that path again. Ultimately, people are going to see things the way they want to see them. To some M:S, E:E, Wishes, Philharmagic, a cloned Soarin, Lilo & Stich, Brother Bear (while not doing Nemo-like numbers the % drop off's are the same if not better), Disney's hand in Pixar films (however much or little it is), etc. etc. etc. are and will be nothing but crap churned out for all the wrong reasons. Yes, one could say that to others they are the greatest things since someone ran a knife through bread. The truth, of course, lies in the middle, and while Disney is NOT Disney (the 100% Philosophy Disney), neither is it the shallow shell of an uncreative company others would portray it to be. I'll let the Pirate carry the flag on that as he seems to have the energy for that journey.

 

[bretsyboo]

I'd like to say a few pointless things here, one I live all or most of Disneys newest attractions, and I'll say why. I love it from an imagineering point of view. The ideas are still there, they just aren't being put into action by management. But Mission Space, for what it is is very good and realistic. Could it have been more? I don't think anyone can even argue that it couldn't have been based upon the blue sky version of the product that has been well publisized. The point was with relatively limited resourses WDI did I fine job putting together an attraction based upon technology unseen in any other park.

The same can be said for almost anything WDI puts influence in including Dinorama. They had no money to build that thing but they made it so tacky, so parkinglot like, and so cheap looking, that it's the number one complaint among message posters aboutwhat Disney has done with their theme parks. Basically, it like everything else, was a success.

WDI spends every and wastes no dollars trying to get the very best product imaginable, and so even though things could be better like Space, or shouldn't exist like Dinorama, I still ride and enjoy them because I can see that WDI did theit very best for me.

The ideas are still there, and they are ready to bubble over. If someone bothers to take the lid off of the pot we can all be thouroughly amazed. It can still happen.

 

[crusader]

In other words, any one with a differing opinion is irrationally bashing for the sole purpose "to get someone" and are blinded by their insanity to all the glories?

No. But very cleverly worded.

In other words, anyone who allows a difference of opinion regarding the managment of an organization to bar them from any agreeable level raises questionability.

There is a pulse beating within this company, which harbors within the core. It began with Walt and continues to breed through the creative talent. While we may only get a glimpse of its' potential within the framework of operations, what we have been given is exceptional. Mission Space is an example of that.

I don't doubt the blue sky exists. Disney doesn't fail its' audience simply because it scales back the grandious. WDW overwhelms our children just as powerfully as it did in the 70's.

 

[Another Voice]

"It is too bad Disney can no longer give you that wow, I hope someone else can."

Yes.

This weekend I finally saw the brilliant Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World on a big screen with a full theatrical sound system. A stunning movie in terms of storytelling, acting, and technical execution; a masterpiece examination of leadership, duty and manhood.

Today I've picked up the extended version of The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers and will probably spend the better part of a week listening and watching to a group of talent and passionate filmmakers talks about how they created a major turning point in the history of movies. A massive work of imagination that will be watched for the next hundred years with as much enjoyment as people watch it today.

This weekend I will meet some friends down at the Hotel del Coronado. A spectacular Victorian creation that has retained all it's grace and charm for well over a hundred years. With fine service and a location that cannot be beaten it is as "wow" as a hotel can get.

Later I hope to attend an exhibit up at the Jet Propulsion Lab on the last decade of space exploration. Instead of a three minute phony spin-and-puke of "this is the best we could do", I will be able to spend hours watching real imagines of the real Mars come down, actually touch a rock from the moon, see earth as a tiny blue dot in the vastness of the universe and see how people intend to find the critters swiming under the ice covered oceans on the moons of Jupiter.

Just because Disney chooses to lower their standards doesn't mean I have to. That's the real danger that Disney has put itself in. Other groups and companies don't have to make excuses. Others know they have to fight for their audience, that they have to live up to their expectation, not hope the public will lower theirs to what the company offers.

Sure, few others offer the same broad range as Disney - but few people look to a single company to fulfill all their need. If Disney fails to meet their desires, the public will happily move elsewhere rather sit and moan "it ain't coming back so get used to it".

 

[DisneyKidds]

.

 

[DisneyKidds]

rather sit and moan "it ain't coming back so get used to it".

Have a great weekend with all that wonderful stuff AV. My family will enjoy the myriad of entertainment opportunities WDW provides for my entire family. Of course that won't preclude us from making trips to the south of France, Paris, several trips to various beach locations, Lake Placid, and a few other things in the coming year. To each his own. If you think that somehow makes you better I hope that self realization brings you great joy.

I would like to point out in regard to the above referenced line that is it those who think that Disney is a shallow shell of a company who are moaning about the lack of "it". While I may not think "it" is coming back, I sure as heck am not moaning about it and have no need to settle for getting used to anything. The only time I'll key any words on the subject is when I am attempting to get the true moaners to wake up and smell the Starbucks .

 

[HB2K]

All of us have done that and accepted certain things on certain levels...................and since we are all still here...................Heck, even Mr. HB (wasn't he in car 4?) has a trip planned next year.

As I announced earlier in response to Scoop's eulogy / bash at me, I'm back in CAR 3. The recent moves have given me some upward momentum...and I'm trying and hoping to get some more...but I'm worried that this is all I can hope for. Only time will tell....

 

[Peter Pirate]

The LOTR's for the next hundred years? Man, I totally lack taste.

It's great that you can be thrilled by the lineup of fun and games that you've outlined. More people should venture into the real world for real experiences, I agree. Personally, Disney to me is an escape, a place of fantasy, fun and a nice comfort zone...Of course I take 8 weeks of vacation per year so Disney is not nearly all I do, but you seem demeaning to folks who have other opinions than yours on these recent topics.

M:S is a prime example, you continually describe it as a "spin & puke" when it realys much more than that to most guests...Plus it is more thrilling than touching a moonstone, which I have done.

As for the Hotel Del, yes it's cool but the service at the St. Francis in SF is better, the water temp & beach are better at the Breakers in Palm Beach and as for great old archetecture? I live near Key West. See tastes are different and more importantly comfort levels are different. If you are thrilled with a long weekend at the Hotel Del that is great with me. I understand it. But why can't a long weekend at the Animal kingdom Lodge give the same credible feelings to someone else?

As for the public moving on...I agree they should when it's their time and believe me when Disney has issued me the final straw I won't be here discussing it any further...

 

[DisneyKidds]

As I announced earlier..................I'm back in CAR 3.

Sorry HB, the official announcement must have slipped by me . Now that you are back from the "dark side" (of the moon) can you tell us what is back there, maybe a pic or two, piece of space dust....................? AV has an opening next weekend .

 

[Peter Pirate]

I fell out of car number one on a sharp curve but was picked up by a busload of Sweedish massage therapists...No "car" will be seeing me again...

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by Another Voice

This weekend I will meet some friends down at the Hotel del Coronado. A spectacular Victorian creation that has retained all it's grace and charm for well over a hundred years. With fine service and a location that cannot be beaten it is as "wow" as a hotel can get.

Retained? Well, lost and regained, perhaps. As Travel & Leisure said:

Sometimes more-complete redos are in order. Until recently the Hotel del Coronado, built in 1888, sat on the beach in San Diego like Victoria in mourning. But a repositioning by Destination Hotels & Resorts has accomplished the unlikely. "We've become less formal and more upmarket," says Michael Hardisty, the managing director.

None of the rickety charm of the old wooden structure, with its cage elevator and Crown Room brunches, has been lost, but the rooms are newly comfortable, and cottages are planned to meet the modern lust for privacy. Air-conditioning has finally been installed. And a handsome new oval lawn lets the whole place breathe—you can finally see the beach, and stroll the grounds, and eat outdoors.

Some Like It Hot, the 1959 classic with Marilyn Monroe, was filmed at the Del, and you're never allowed to forget it. The movie plays several times a day in guest rooms, free of charge. Throughout the hotel, grainy photographs of stars romping in a black-and-white past remind you that Hollywood history is all around you. By the time you go to sleep, you're convinced Marilyn is in the next room. This theming is so effective that there's a shop called 1888, which focuses on the Del's history. Its most consistent seller is Taschen's annotated screenplay of Some Like It Hot, a coffee-table book bound in yellow Ultrasuede. It costs $150.

Wow, they're hocking some expensive merchandise there. Can you get a Del Coronado sandglobe?

Later I hope to attend an exhibit up at the Jet Propulsion Lab on the last decade of space exploration. Instead of a three minute phony spin-and-puke of "this is the best we could do", I will be able to spend hours watching real imagines of the real Mars come down, actually touch a rock from the moon, see earth as a tiny blue dot in the vastness of the universe and see how people intend to find the critters swiming under the ice covered oceans on the moons of Jupiter.

Wow, I hope they have a single rider line so you don't have to wait forever to get in. "Real images"! Why couldn't WDI think of that!

 

[HB2K]

Not to pull this thing off topic again, but Kidds in short:

It sucks...but I took solace knowing I held to my principals. I felt the parks just weren't worth any more of my investments without any type of capital improvements combined with the budget cuts. Disney made / announced said improvements, so my position changed.

And I'm sorry I didn't mean my last post to be snooty. It's tough to get the context to work all the time in these forums....

 

[DisneyKidds]

And I'm sorry I didn't mean my last post to be snooty.

No need for apologies......................you aren't the one who comes off snooty in this thread .

BTW - I'm glad you held your ground and did your thing.....................but most of all I'm glad you are back. I thought it would be a cold day in.......................... . Nah..............I knew you'd be back. Yeah, that's the ticket. *

* Obscure (or not?) SNL reference.

 

[bretsyboo]

This weekend I finally saw the brilliant Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World on a big screen with a full theatrical sound system.

Hey, don't sweat waiting so long to see it AV, my sources tell me it's still going to be in theatres for a while, and there are still people who have yet to see the movie. No need for guilt!

 

[crusader]

AV -

For all the reasons you mentioned, Disney is only able to grab my attention every few years. As much as I enjoy the place, I do travel elsewhere which tends to build the anticipation of the visit. From what I just witnessed this past Oct., WDW does provide a spectacular surreal vacation experience.

I can't even remotely compare the Disney resorts of today with the national historic landmark known as The Hotel Del Coronado. (which I do envy you being within a drives distance to - absolutely fantastic especially during the holidays. Pure class.)

Does that mean I have a different standard of excellence for The Boardwalk resort vs the Del? yes! But that doesn't mean I cannot have an exceptional stay at either place. I just happen to regard one on a much higher level than the other and probably always will.

(But I must admit, the staff and service at the Boardwalk were excellent.)

With the parks, I was expecting to witness an erosion of quality at WDW based on all the discontent I've heard around here. I was expecting to feel differently this trip vs my last. I was expecting things to be far less than I've grown accustomed to.

That never happened - not with any of the 27 personalities who joined me. Of course I did spoil them and maneuvered the parks quite efficiently given my vast extensive knowledge of the world. But the only feeling we all came away with was euphoria! That speaks volumes and we can't wait to go back in 2006!

You have a distinct advantage in terms of knowledge and background within the organization. I appreciate that. Fortunately, for Disney, all that stifling robberbaron activity hasn't had any real impact on Walt's Disneyworld.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

WOW!! So much to answer, so little will to do it! But this one really struck me...

Fortunately, for Disney, all that stifling robberbaron activity hasn't had any real impact on Walt's Disneyworld.

.. SIR!! I beg to differ!! It has GREATLY impacted MY WDW. I wonder how it missed yours?

 

[Planogirl]

Many of you are pointing out that your perspective that WDW is still wonderful is right for you. I respect that but do keep in mind that others pointing that WDW ISN'T right for THEM is also accurate. The only question is how many people will end up on which side of the fence as time goes on. Few people actually care as much as we do and that makes it a lot easier to both overlook and become annoyed with the "troubles" at WDW.

As for the Hotel Del, there has been no finer hotel for me yet. This one surpasses anything that I've seen all over the US and beyond but that is just my opinion of course.

Welcome to Car 3 HB. Some people are annoyed with the car references but they really do make explanations a lot easier don't they?

 

[Another Voice]

Hotel del Coronado

A lot of people want to treat Disney as a luxury brand and assume that anything they do is automatically going to be success. The simple fact is that once Disney leaves its core businesses it cares no weight with the public. People go after the best in a field and seldom follow a brand blindly; too many people can do it better. Disney tried to sell it's hotels at "first class" and they failed miserably - look at Hilton Head and Vero Beach. The general public are not brand monkeys. A company has to earn[/I] its place in a market.


Single rider line for real pictures.

That was the reaction I was expecting. Actually monitors showing realtime pictures of the earth from orbit, daily feeds from JPL/NASA probes across the solar system and weekly teleconferences with people on the space station were all plans for the 'Mission: Space' pavilion. Had they survived Disney budget cuts, I have no doubt that people here would have squealing like a 12 year girl clutching the new Britney Spears CD. It would have been used as proof positive that only the magic of magical Disney could magically produces such magical innovation.

But since the money for the project went to the bottom line instead of to the guests, the essence of brand loyalty demands that people disown the idea and ridicule it. They set there standards at what they are given, not what should have been given - or even at what they want. The public, however, is not bound by that cage. They will go out and find good experiences that interest them. They will not ignore the bad and find the good. If Disney disappoints the public (as in California Adventure), the public has no problem with ignoring Disney and continuing on their way.

Disney isn't "magical" just because it's "Disney". Disney wasn't always success and Disney is nothing to guarantee it will be successful in the future. And while a consumer can relax and have confidence that their next trip is going to be euphoric - for a company to become that complacent spells nothing but disaster.

The idea that "Disney will always be magical" is just as hollow as the idea that people will always fly Pan Am, people drink Coke because of brand loyalty or Michael Jackson will always be the King of Pop.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Who's the arbitor of standard and good taste?

To many people Disney Resorts may be the epitome of first class...The fact that there are many other (better) examples of first class hotels means little to someone who's pennies are being saved for that 2 week trip to WDW. To tell them their money would be better spent at the Hay Adams in Washington while touring the wonders of the Smithsonian is talking on deaf ears.

M:S: So all of those wonderful things were part of the original 16 billion dollar attraction huh? It would have been great, I guess, but all we got was the lame, done it a million times 'spin & puke'...It's kind of like the Haunted Mansion when Walt originally may have wanted to break the ride into three tracks for a duration offering different scary surprises to each doombuggy before remerging for the 'swinging wake' ... But alas we got POC part 2. I guess the innovative variation on the theme would have been just too expensive...

Disney may have become complacent as a company and it may be evident to Disney watchers but they aren't acting complacent company wide. This is why although the near term may continue tumultuous it will continue nonetheless. Certainly no one will continue to 'buy Disney' if the product deteriorates to nothing but a quick look at movie sales, theme park business & DCL for example prove they are no where near turning off the masses. Could they some day disappear? Surely they could but it doesn't look as it it'll be anytime soon.

 

[airlarry!]

Has Disney, and more specifically, the theme park division of The Walt Disney Company jumped the shark?

I cannot wait until two weeks from today when I finally try out M:S and see for myself whether or not it is really a 'spin and puke' or whether it is as good as the Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean turned out to be in their final forms. I can't wait to finally experience TestTrack, and compare it to my memories of the World of Motion. I might even sneak a picture at whatever is happening in the Himalayas...

AV says that M:S is an example of today's Disney's efforts, a disappointing effort at capturing the wonder and mystery of outer space (and I read the same reports early on when Jim Hill expressed disappointment at what could have been with the M:S attraction--boy, I remember people on boards like these just scalding Jimbo for stirring up people's fancy with tales of what might have been)

The Pirate and DK say that M:S and other new attractions are...hmm...well, to tell you the truth, I can't articulate properly what they think about the latest 'improvements' to the parks.

I guess I'll have to check it out for m'self.