Security Threat?

[Geoff_M]

The biometrics manufacturer says it’s a simple software option…...

Raul Diaz, Lumidigm’s vice president of sales and marketing, said it is "easy" to change a system from capturing numerical information to storing an entire fingerprint image. "It's a software option," Diaz said. "It's changing just one command." Diaz said few, if any, companies store the fingerprint images due to privacy concerns.

I understand that... and they can lift prints from our rooms if they really wanted to too. Granted it would be easier to collect them with the scanners, but even if it's an option there's no reason for Disney to "turn it on". They'd be buying themselves a bunch of headaches, both in terms of IT systems (added storage, added bandwidth consumption, slower response time, etc.), customer headaches (dealing with additional false ticket rejections), and legal (nefarious collection of personal information is a legal no-no in most cases). A larger question would be "Why would they need/want to collect your prints, and what on Earth would they do with them once they got them???" The "check digit" system they have is sufficient to stop ticket sharing, so what would be the possible benefit for taking it a lot further?

I'm not worried because I know that them collecting and storing my fingerprint can only be a "problem" for them with no real "up-side".

 

[thefirebuilds]

Its funny how everyone always knows the job of a professional better than they do.

I am a security professional, contact me via PM if you need references. Don't make sarcastic assumptions. Most of the folks with the observant eyes would make very good security professionals.

 

[thefirebuilds]

Has strict standards and supervisors watching all the time. Ever work with them? I have...Know why the 2oz rule is in effect? A shoe bomber caused it....And, we are much safer after 9/11. Before that date, the WTC were attacked and it was not followed up and it happened again.

Again..Its not a perfect world, but, Disney does a very good job at keeping the millions that go there safe.

Simple chemistry will teach you how bloody hard it is to create an explosive with fluids. It's near impossible in the context of an airplane without blowing yourself up in the process and not causing the needed damage to the structure or other people.

Powders on the other hand, relatively trivial... though I took a quart of foot powder in my backpack on my last flight. It's stupid.

 

[thefirebuilds]

Disney security does a much better job of it than you give them credit. As to the bag search, what makes any of you so sure they are not watching that line from somewhere else and including those that do not have a bag. Alot can be told about a person by their body language.

I remove my leatherman multi tool from my bag pouch and slip it into my pocket before going through security so there is no issue, and I always carry a pocket knife. These are unconcealed items. It's relatively easy to carry a small semi automatic pistol completely concealed and obviously they don't care about weapons that are in plain site.

 

[thefirebuilds]

I thought front gate security in November was much more thorough this trip. One guard engaged each person in conversation which I thought an improvement as well. Now, I have no experience in security work, but I think that might help them narrow down who might need a more thorough search. Someone told me once that because Disney is a private company, security can and does profile when screening. I haven't seen evidence of this firsthand. I guess I am just hopeful that they do security as well as they do fun at WDW.

retail vendors are taught to make eye contact and speak with each customer as they walk in. That's simply good policy - people don't attempt something when they think they may not get away with it. A good social engineer would rather go undetected.

 

[Hazzard101]

I remove my leatherman multi tool from my bag pouch and slip it into my pocket before going through security so there is no issue, and I always carry a pocket knife. These are unconcealed items. It's relatively easy to carry a small semi automatic pistol completely concealed and obviously they don't care about weapons that are in plain site.

To add to that point, how many hold ups, muggings, or crimes have taken place in The Disney Parks? I see people leaving baby carriages full of stuff un attended and I have yet to hear of someone getting something stolen. I am not saying it does not take place just not that often.

Also there have been no attacks with weapons in the parks that I have ever heard of. It is obviously not a huge issue. There is an old saying "locks are to keep honest people honest" If someone wants to do something, they will find a way around any security you put up. So it is important for everyone to be on the watch for things that are out of the ordinary.

 

[thefirebuilds]

To add to that point, how many hold ups, muggings, or crimes have taken place in The Disney Parks? I see people leaving baby carriages full of stuff un attended and I have yet to hear of someone getting something stolen. I am not saying it does not take place just not that often.

Also there have been no attacks with weapons in the parks that I have ever heard of. It is obviously not a huge issue. There is an old saying "locks are to keep honest people honest" If someone wants to do something, they will find a way around any security you put up. So it is important for everyone to be on the watch for things that are out of the ordinary.

I don't believe that stuff doesn't happen, but despite my pessimistic postings I believe a lot of the minor stuff that has happened was "covered up" or more politely "mitigated" by Disney corporation and their relationship with the media and local constable. I remember reading a few years back that the acts of assault in the parking lots at Downtown Disney were actually pretty well known by the locals, despite it not being written up in the paper. That's when we started seeing the Jurrassic Park style cherry pickers that the security officers sat in. Obviously that's a visual deterrent, one would be daft to think they don't have a vested interest in paying attention to that sort of thing. You can only conceal so much.

That said, the bag check is nonsensical, except I know they are looking for glass material (Insurance requirements as well as state health and welfare guidelines) as well as alchol. To the latter point, however, I bring a liter of water to the park and no one has ever given it even a sniff test, nor do they inspect all of the openings on my bag. Florida state allows for concealed carry and WDW does not make any public written or stated declaration that it is not OK, which they must do on private property.

-- I will get more political if I continue, so I won't. I truly belive the bag checks are there to create an illusion to guests, but that doesn't mean I don't believe there are other more invisible tasks at work.

I was surprised this last trip to see a dope dog and uniformed officer on site, it's kind of unnerving for someone who may not expect it.

Do any of you remember years ago when the backlot tour went through an FBI currency fraud detection facility or am I out of my mind completely?

 

[Hazzard101]

I don't believe that stuff doesn't happen, but despite my pessimistic postings I believe a lot of the minor stuff that has happened was "covered up" or more politely "mitigated" by Disney corporation and their relationship with the media and local constable. I remember reading a few years back that the acts of assault in the parking lots at Downtown Disney were actually pretty well known by the locals, despite it not being written up in the paper. That's when we started seeing the Jurrassic Park style cherry pickers that the security officers sat in. Obviously that's a visual deterrent, one would be daft to think they don't have a vested interest in paying attention to that sort of thing. You can only conceal so much.

That said, the bag check is nonsensical, except I know they are looking for glass material (Insurance requirements as well as state health and welfare guidelines) as well as alchol. To the latter point, however, I bring a liter of water to the park and no one has ever given it even a sniff test, nor do they inspect all of the openings on my bag. Florida state allows for concealed carry and WDW does not make any public written or stated declaration that it is not OK, which they must do on private property.

-- I will get more political if I continue, so I won't. I truly belive the bag checks are there to create an illusion to guests, but that doesn't mean I don't believe there are other more invisible tasks at work.

I was surprised this last trip to see a dope dog and uniformed officer on site, it's kind of unnerving for someone who may not expect it.

Do any of you remember years ago when the backlot tour went through an FBI currency fraud detection facility or am I out of my mind completely?

I was specifically talking about the parks. Down town Disney is a whole different story. This is a public venue that has no security check points this is the perfect place for trouble.

I was referring to the parks. I do believe there is a policy about firearms in the PARKS but only the parks. I bring mine when I travel and I have a permit but they get locked in the safe while I am there.

I am also in security and the bag check helps to eliminate a portion of contraband and makes someone who is thinking about doing something stupid think twice about it. When I search a bag I can use techniques to know what is in a pocket without opening it. All I am saying is it is a good PR safety measure that makes people feel a bit more safe, but it also works to find things that are obvious and could be the one factor that catches something that may have made it in without it.

 

[DVCPAT]

I understand that... and they can lift prints from our rooms if they really wanted to too. Granted it would be easier to collect them with the scanners, but even if it's an option there's no reason for Disney to "turn it on". They'd be buying themselves a bunch of headaches, both in terms of IT systems (added storage, added bandwidth consumption, slower response time, etc.), customer headaches (dealing with additional false ticket rejections), and legal (nefarious collection of personal information is a legal no-no in most cases). A larger question would be "Why would they need/want to collect your prints, and what on Earth would they do with them once they got them???" The "check digit" system they have is sufficient to stop ticket sharing, so what would be the possible benefit for taking it a lot further?

I'm not worried because I know that them collecting and storing my fingerprint can only be a "problem" for them with no real "up-side".

Disney is very secretive about security measures. I could think of a couple benefits in storing data for the ticket life, plus 30 days. Here in Maryland, anyone can get a drivers license. Lets say someone entered WDW with a fake ID. They purchase park tickets and commit a crime on site…..they escape and disappear in with the masses. Authorities are called and its determined the ID was bogus. Disney gets legal approval and constructs the finger print from the stored data. Within a short period of time, they have the bad guys real ID.

Another scenario could be a known bad guy was planning a terrorist attack at WDW. Our government passes the info along to Disney security. Disney security gets approval to flag this guy using video facial recognition and finger print scanning. The guy enters a park and the fingerprint scan notifies security.

Can you imagine what damage could be done with so many people in close proximity? One incident could cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue. Disney is putting on a Super Bowl every day. They have to be prudent.

 

[disneynutz]

I think that some of these posts are off base a bit.

Disney's number one security roll is to protect corporate assets, that includes it's public image.

Secondary is protecting it's Guests.

Disney doesn't cooperate well with outside agency's be it the Sheriff or others. That's why they have their own 911 operators. Disney knows that their information is public record and Disney doesn't want a record.

When a accident occurs on Disney property, Cast Members are instructed to clear the Guests from the area to that they can't take photos and leak them outside of Disney.

I doubt if Disney would ever capture fingerprints and share them with outside agency's.

Bill

 

[Geoff_M]

Disney is very secretive about security measures.

Show me a company that isn't secretive about their security measures unless compelled to do otherwise. It's that way for a reason... you don't show your playbook to the opposition.

I could think of a couple benefits in storing data for the ticket life, plus 30 days. Here in Maryland, anyone can get a drivers license. Lets say someone entered WDW with a fake ID. They purchase park tickets and commit a crime on site…..they escape and disappear in with the masses. Authorities are called and its determined the ID was bogus. Disney gets legal approval and constructs the finger print from the stored data. Within a short period of time, they have the bad guys real ID.

Pause for a second and think about the risk/reward equation for this scenario. Disney isn't going to commit a likely criminal offense and risk large civil lawsuit payouts in order to prevent petty crimes in their theme parks.

Another scenario could be a known bad guy was planning a terrorist attack at WDW. Our government passes the info along to Disney security. Disney security gets approval to flag this guy using video facial recognition and finger print scanning. The guy enters a park and the fingerprint scan notifies security.

OK, so where does Disney get these terrorist fingerprints from? Also note that it's not usually the known terrorist ring leaders that do the dirty work in such attacks, instead they normally recruit "nobodies" with visions of virgins dancing in their heads.

 

[thefirebuilds]

The company I work for is SOX compliant which requires us to publish our security measures and shortcomings every year to federal auditors and our customers. So, I disagree with that, but until something happens that requires legislative oversight an amusement park really doesn't have to... though I bet the state regulators and insurance policy holder has it pretty well documented - not so secret.

 

[Geoff_M]

So, I disagree with that,...

There. Fixed it!

 

[cpdwiz]

I have to think it is time to let this one pass. I am thinking you have no real understanding about security. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my educated understanding of security and procedures. If you want to believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring that's fine. As for me I know better.

BTW depending on when you enter the park the finger print scan is turned off during busy times. The scan is not really a security measure but a measure to keep people from using a ticket that isn't theirs. They turn it off for speed as well. This I know for a fact.

And I agree...those that know, as we do, know things are done well. Those that do not, who know our jobs better than us can assume things are not good. Thats fine.

 

[cpdwiz]

Hazzard, I don't claim to be a security expert, BUT..
My point is if the Disney security bag check is so great, than why doesn't the TSA do a cursory glance in your bag and call it complete?

I think the bag check is a farce, but that doesn't mean I "believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring".

I never said Disney security does a poor job overall.
I did say the bag check is a joke, and one year the finger scan didn't seem to work properly. I stand by those statements.

There are other weak areas that I will not mention, most of which are a matter of policy, not implementation.

MG

Because there is no followup to TSA. Once you are through, thats it. How do you know bag check is not DESIGNED to look like a joke? If its a joke, please, document how many weapons related incidents have happened INSIDE a Disney park in the past 10 years. As a pilot, I am sure you are trained in security and measures to take inside a locked cockpit. However, ah, well, forget it. Disney is safe.

 

[cpdwiz]

So, if I read your statement correctly, you are saying they can do whatever they want to guest so long as they state it is in the name of safety and security?? That gives them free rein to be as overzealous and irrational as possible and if that is the case, then let them do whatever they want and don't worry about procedures and training. Just turn them loose. Your OK with it as long as they tell you it for your own safety??..smjj

What I am saying, is MAYBE there was a reason that security officer approached you. MAYBE there was something YOU did not know about. Maybe a threat? Tell me, how many times have you been to the world, and how many other incidents have happened?

And, I am pretty ok with just about anything that keeps us safe. I am cleared to work with TSA carrying a weapon, and board a plane with a weapon while working. HOWEVER, when I flew with Southwest, I was pulled aside and went through extra security measures. NO PROBLEM at all for me. I am all for keeping my family safe, and if that means being a little inconveinenced by a security guard, so be it. There are boundaries, and, IMO, he did not cross one here.

 

[cpdwiz]

As to the OP's comments about the security guard's stated prohibition, photographers (pro and amateur) have been putting up with this sort of hassle from police and private "Barney Fifes" ever since 9/11. In almost every case, the official has been 100% wrong about the supposed prohibitions that they state. .

LOL. And sad.

 

[cpdwiz]

Yes... But... We're not talking about someone acting suspicious while flying to Israel.

We're talking about a guest taking a picture AT WALT DISNEY WORLD! I don't understand how that is out of the ordinary in any way, shape, or fashion.

MG

Seriously, do you think a bad person is gonna have a sign on saying IM SOMEONE TO WATCH? Terrorists are using CHILDREN, WOMAN and handicapped people to carry out attacks!

 

[cpdwiz]

Simple chemistry will teach you how bloody hard it is to create an explosive with fluids. It's near impossible in the context of an airplane without blowing yourself up in the process and not causing the needed damage to the structure or other people.

Powders on the other hand, relatively trivial... though I took a quart of foot powder in my backpack on my last flight. It's stupid.

Hard? Mixing 2 chemicals together in a soda bottle and waiting 10 minutes is hard? Hmmmm....if Reid would have lit his shoe, it would have been catastrophic.

 

[cpdwiz]

Disney doesn't cooperate well with outside agency's be it the Sheriff or others. That's why they have their own 911 operators.l

Disney has their own 911 system because the were the first in the US to design it. States followed after them. Also, Disney is its own entity in FL.