Seat Assignments w/children

[kaytieeldr]

Well, does WestJet allow you to preselect seats, either free or at a charge? Did you, and are you proactively monitoring those seats to ensure - as much as possible - that you stay together? If not, can you select seats now? If not, are you prepared to check in at exactly 24 hours before departure, and arrive at the airport three hours in advance?

 

[crashbb]

Well, does WestJet allow you to preselect seats, either free or at a charge? Did you, and are you proactively monitoring those seats to ensure - as much as possible - that you stay together? If not, can you select seats now? If not, are you prepared to check in at exactly 24 hours before departure, and arrive at the airport three hours in advance?

Yes, WJ allows you to preselect your seats for a fee. I've checked the WJ website - both the section of seat selection and flying with children - and cannot find anything about them seating a child with an adult. I'm certain that they'd try to do so, but they can only work with the seats available at the time. It is possible that they do this at 23hr59min (i.e. before people start checking in and selecting seats for free) or they may only do it when the given party checks in.

 

[chanty]

Really? On my last West Jet flight (to Orlando), I was asked by a father if I would mind changing my seat so that he could sit next to his daughter - they were about five rows apart.

Given that West Jet charges for pre-selecting seats, I don't see how they can make that promise - if there are no sets of two seats together by the time they start assigning seats to those who choose not to pay for them, how can they sit the child with an adult in their party?

FTR - I did move for the father. He offered to buy me a snack (I turned him down - I had moved from an aisle to an aisle, and was perfectly happy) and we chatted. He, like the PP, assumed that they wouldn't separate him from his daughter, and hadn't paid for the seat selection.

You are right!! I called back and they said there was no guarantees!!! Grrrr! She said the other person was possibly new or something!!

I can't wait to leave for this friggin trip!!
I don't think I'll ever plan a trip for 8 people again!
What a pain!! All this to save money!!!

Sorry - my rant is done - thanks for listening lol

Chantal

 

[kaytieeldr]

You still haven't answered my questions, chanty. What have you done to ensure that your godchildren will each be sitting with an adult?

 

[chanty]

You still haven't answered my questions, chanty. What have you done to ensure that your godchildren will each be sitting with an adult?

What have I done?! I'm sorry but I don't understand your point or your tone...
I preselected MY seats and PAID! If my SIL doesn't want to do so - her problem!

But how could I DO something when WestJet TOLD ME when I booked that no need to worry, we never seat a child by themselves! Why would I need to DO something?

I now DID something by calling back, getting the right information and now sending that info to my SIL. Her call. My job is done.

But again...I still don't get your point or tone.

Chantal

 

[kaytieeldr]

There wasn't any tone intended. You were posting here, seemingly in a minor panic because the airline told you one thing while experienced fliers told you another. It wasn't clear from your earlier post referring to your godchildren that their parent was flying too; it appeared they were flying with you only and you were going to trust the airline to seat you together despite the information in this thread.

I don't live in Canada, I don't fly WestJet, I don't know what they will and won't allow or require passengers to do. That's why I asked you questions.


You know something? Forget it. I should have stuck with my original plan to stay away from this board for a while.

 

[chanty]

There wasn't any tone intended. You were posting here, seemingly in a minor panic because the airline told you one thing while experienced fliers told you another. It wasn't clear from your earlier post referring to your godchildren that their parent was flying too; it appeared they were flying with you only and you were going to trust the airline to seat you together despite the information in this thread.

I don't live in Canada, I don't fly WestJet, I don't know what they will and won't allow or require passengers to do. That's why I asked you questions.

You know something? Forget it. I should have stuck with my original plan to stay away from this board for a while.

I guess you assumed and I assumed as well.
Lesson learned.

Have a good day!

Chantal

 

[maxiesmom]

What have I done?! I'm sorry but I don't understand your point or your tone...
I preselected MY seats and PAID! If my SIL doesn't want to do so - her problem!

But how could I DO something when WestJet TOLD ME when I booked that no need to worry, we never seat a child by themselves! Why would I need to DO something?

I now DID something by calling back, getting the right information and now sending that info to my SIL. Her call. My job is done.

But again...I still don't get your point or tone.

Chantal

I think she was just asking if you had called back and paid for seats, once you knew the first agent you had talked to had given you bad information.

You made no mention of booking for your sister in law in your previous posts. For all we knew you were purchasing all the airline tickets (and seat assingments) yourself.

 

[CPT Tripss]

What have I done?! I'm sorry but I don't understand your point or your tone...
I preselected MY seats and PAID! If my SIL doesn't want to do so - her problem!

But how could I DO something when WestJet TOLD ME when I booked that no need to worry, we never seat a child by themselves! Why would I need to DO something?

I now DID something by calling back, getting the right information and now sending that info to my SIL. Her call. My job is done.

But again...I still don't get your point or tone.

Chantal

I understand why you would believe what you were told by an airline representative over what you may have read here.

Goofy4tink has an interesting point . . .

But, the issue is this...those with young kids want to sit with those kids, without paying extra. Yeah, I get the whole 'what happens in an emergency' issue. But I have to tell you...if my dh, dh and I are on the same plane, but not seated next to each other??? Dh is going to move heaven and earth to help his child..as am I. If the passenger next to me is in the way, well, so be it...I'm getting to my child. Doesn't make much difference if that child is 9,19, or 29. A parent will try to get to it's child.

The behavior accompanying that mindset will definately foul up any 90 second evacuation of a commercial aircraft. Seems to me it's in all our interests for airlines to seat a child next to one of the parents.

 

[chanty]

I think she was just asking if you had called back and paid for seats, once you knew the first agent you had talked to had given you bad information.

You made no mention of booking for your sister in law in your previous posts. For all we knew you were purchasing all the airline tickets (and seat assingments) yourself.

Thanks for your input! I should have share the whole story! Indeed I am planning the trip, I bought everyone's tickets, I called time & time again.... I didn't think it was necessary to bore you all with the details! . But I guess it would have helped! My only point was - WHAT? its not true!! LOL

Thank god I saw this post and called WestJet! We now have the correct info!

Chantal

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I was booked on a flight...Delta I believe. I decided, after the fact, to bring my dd along with me, so had to book her on a different reservation. She was about 12 at the time. We had seats together...so I really didn't worry. Well, Delta changed the equipment....dd and I ended up on two different flights!!! Seriously?? I have now learned my lesson. There are many various reasons that you could end up apart.

There have been several times when we've traveled on more than one PNR (reservation record). Sometimes it was because we were using frequent flyer points from more than one account. Sometimes it was because someone was flying home a few days sooner or later than the others.

With American Airlines (and I would assume with other airlines too), the phone reservation agents are able to link the PNRs. That way, the airline at least knows the passengers are traveling together, and the airline can make an effort to keep those passengers together.

 

[gwynne]

There have been several times when we've traveled on more than one PNR (reservation record). Sometimes it was because we were using frequent flyer points from more than one account. Sometimes it was because someone was flying home a few days sooner or later than the others.

With American Airlines (and I would assume with other airlines too), the phone reservation agents are able to link the PNRs. That way, the airline at least knows the passengers are traveling together, and the airline can make an effort to keep those passengers together.

Delta is happy to do assist with this, too. I always link our ressies when we are flying on more than one PNR, same trip. Sometimes we're on the same flight, sometimes we're on different flights.
I'm sure most airlines can easily do this. It really helps when there is a flight or equipment change. While you're working one one, the agent can easily see the other, and make adjustments that work well for both. For example, making sure that you both arrive at the destination with reasonably close times if you're traveling separately. And for passengers that are traveling together, keeping them on an identical itinerary.

 

[NotUrsula]

But, here in the US, our kids do not automatically follow directions. They scream for mommy and daddy. That's just the way it is. If the American airlines chose to behave as European airlines do, then perhaps things would be better. Some of my best experiences have been on Virgin...flying to London. Passengers 'got it'. But here in the US?? Just doesn't happen. Parents will try to get to their children. Just a fact of life.
[snip]

Don't you think that is painting a stereotype with a broad brush? My kids are American, but I guess that I have the nuns to thank for their excellent fire evacuation training. DD is only 5, but you should hear her talk about fire rules -- she isn't about to fail to do what she is supposed to do if there was a fire; she lectures the rest of the family on it all the time. She knows the drill cold, and I know that she would go onto autopilot if an FA was repeating over and over, "Leave your seat! Follow the lights on the floor to the exit go down the slide!" Even if she was afraid, she would obey, because she is much more afraid of fire than she is of strangers.

Honestly, I find that kids will often surprise us with how well they can do in crisis situations when we make it clear what we expect of them. If we convince ourselves that they will not be able to handle it and pass on that conviction to the kids, then of course they will panic; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if we teach them what to do and make it clear that we are confident that they can do it? 99 times out of 100, they will come through with flying colors.

 

[goofy4tink]

There have been several times when we've traveled on more than one PNR (reservation record). Sometimes it was because we were using frequent flyer points from more than one account. Sometimes it was because someone was flying home a few days sooner or later than the others.

With American Airlines (and I would assume with other airlines too), the phone reservation agents are able to link the PNRs. That way, the airline at least knows the passengers are traveling together, and the airline can make an effort to keep those passengers together.

It may very well have been JetBlue, not Delta, upon further reflection. I do know that last Dec, I had already booked my annual WDW solo trip. I had told my dd that if she got a B in Algebra, she could go with me...a first for her at this time of year. Well she got the B. I figured she probably would, so went ahead and booked her flight. But it was a good 4 months after I booked mine. I called JB to see if I could link them...I was told no. That I would have to keep an eye on the flights and if anything changed it was incumbant on me stay on top of it. That's the only time I have less than stellar customer service from JB!!

Don't you think that is painting a stereotype with a broad brush? My kids are American, but I guess that I have the nuns to thank for their excellent fire evacuation training. DD is only 5, but you should hear her talk about fire rules -- she isn't about to fail to do what she is supposed to do if there was a fire; she lectures the rest of the family on it all the time. She knows the drill cold, and I know that she would go onto autopilot if an FA was repeating over and over, "Leave your seat! Follow the lights on the floor to the exit go down the slide!" Even if she was afraid, she would obey, because she is much more afraid of fire than she is of strangers.

Honestly, I find that kids will often surprise us with how well they can do in crisis situations when we make it clear what we expect of them. If we convince ourselves that they will not be able to handle it and pass on that conviction to the kids, then of course they will panic; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if we teach them what to do and make it clear that we are confident that they can do it? 99 times out of 100, they will come through with flying colors.

No, I don't think it's a broad brush at all. I worked for 4 years in dd's elementary school library. These kids couldn't follow the simplest of instructions. And in a crisis situation??? Seriously??? You truly think that kids are going to calmly get up and follow the lights and down the slide? Grownups can't do that!!!
My dd has been flying since she was 3. I will put her up against the vast majority of every day fliers when it comes to knowing what to do. BUT....if we are on the same flight? I think she will turn to me and look for reassurance. And she is 19!!!
The vast majority of kids today are coddled by their parents. Just check out the Community Board to see how many parents refuse to allow their 12/13 y/o's out of their sight!!! And you think these same kids are going to be able to function in an emergency?

 

[Greysword]

One issue that's still unanswered is what happens when an airline has to reassign passengers to a different flight or to a different aircraft type?

Let's suppose you paid to be assigned to an aisle seat (categorized as a premium seat) and you also reserved the adjacent middle seat. You're on the same PNR (the same airline reservation). You look forward to sitting together with your spouse. You might even be planning to watch a movie together on an iPad or laptop (with a headphone splitter), while having a glass of airline wine.

You booked this many months in advance. You had your pick of seats, and you picked the best ones available on the seat map.

Now it's the day of the flight, and the best the airline could do is to assign one aisle seat right behind the emergency row (It's still categorized as a premium seat) and one middle seat somewhere near the toilets in the back. "Sorry. That's all that's available because the flight you originally booked no longer exists, and this flight is full."

Now imagine a similar scenario (minus the wine) with a parent and a young child.

In either case, what's the solution?

That is my sticking point also. You can also include missing a connection because of airline/weather and put on a different flight. IMO, in these situations, it becomes the airlines responsibility to do everything it can to sit the child & parent (or husband & wife or whatever) as close to each other as possible. This might include bumping someone (or multiple ones) up to first class, or even offering some incentives for people to give up their seats.

However, there will still be situations where they can't get a good solution.

These are great points, and I will answer by saying it depends on the timing of the situation.

In Horace's scenario, I feel it is incumbent on us (the passengers) to monitor our reservation frequently to ensure no changes were made due to aircraft swaps or timeline shifts. The sooner we notice a change, the more options we have available to rectify any seating shifts.

Most airlines permit check-in at the 24 hour mark, so it is recommended we (the passengers) solidify our booking assignments by checking in electronically. This is even more easy due to mobile apps. It also allows for opportunities to change rows, seat types, etc, as elite upgrades will have cleared and unused reserved blocks will become available.

All of the above is within our ability to ensure the best seating arrangements possible for our needs. However, Sam brings up a good point regarding day of travel issues.

I agree that irregular operations on the day of travel changes the dynamics, as the seating changes are no longer within our control. Instead, it becomes more important to arrive at our destination on time (within reasonable time if we can/need to delay). As such, getting any seat on the plane is ok, and we (the passengers on that flight) can work out seating arrangements on our own.

The best scenario for any potential breakup is for all in your party to try and get the best seats possible. "Seat equity" may be able to resolve the problem, itself. For example, people are more willing to trade evenly or trade up than to trade down. As such, exit row seats are much better than regular, so a middle row passenger next to your child would be willing to trade for a middle exit row seat you are in. Same goes for trading an aisle (or sometimes window) for a middle seat. If a DD or DS is in a middle seat and you have an aisle (and sometimes window), many times it is easier to swap aisle for aisle or window for aisle to get next to your family.

In summary, the best course of action (IMO) is to closely monitor reservations up to travel day, so any changes can be dealt with quickly. Next, check-in as soon as possible based on airline policy and elite status. Third, if you do end up getting scattered, try to grab seat with equitable trade value for use on the plane at a later time.

 

[NotUrsula]

...
No, I don't think it's a broad brush at all. I worked for 4 years in dd's elementary school library. These kids couldn't follow the simplest of instructions.

I've been a librarian for 27 years. Of course they didn't follow instructions; kids in school look at a visit to the library as a "get out of class free" card; they think it is playtime.

And in a crisis situation??? Seriously??? You truly think that kids are going to calmly get up and follow the lights and down the slide? Grownups can't do that!!!

Actually, grownups can and have done that; if they didn't it wouldn't be possible to evacuate a 747 in under 2 minutes. However, what the study that I mentioned showed is that children are MORE likely than adults to do as they are told, because children are used to being told what to do by authority figures other than their parents: they learn this in school. In an emergency, adults are way more likely to try to argue and attempt to assert control than kids are.

And yes, I think that a real crisis tends to bring out maturity more often than not. I'll give you an example: my DS has mild Asperger's and tends to be a bit dependent on routine; he ruffles easily when things don't go as expected. For that reason, his father and I have made a crusade out of disrupting routine just so that he cannot get complacent. When he was 11 I lost him just before the Epcot fireworks during F&W. DH was off riding Soarin by himself. I was dealing with the baby, so I had allowed DS to run on ahead to get to a food stand before it closed for the night, and in his eagerness to get there he didn't listen carefully to my instructions about where to meet me afterward, so he went looking for me in the wrong place, somewhere halfway across the park from where I actually was waiting. I stayed put and did not panic when he didn't appear, and 20 minutes after the fireworks ended he turned up with his father in tow. He told me later that he was scared at first when he didn't find me, but that he realized that he must have made a mistake and needed to think carefully to find a solution. He had seen his Dad's FP in his ticketholder and remembered what ride he was heading for, so he went to the ride exit and waited the 40 minutes until his father got off. He gained a tremendous amount of confidence that day, because he worked out the solution to his problem on his own.

My dd has been flying since she was 3. I will put her up against the vast majority of every day fliers when it comes to knowing what to do. BUT....if we are on the same flight? I think she will turn to me and look for reassurance. And she is 19!!!

Yeah, my kids would initially turn to look for me, too, but if there is an emergency evac and you are seated several rows away, turning to you isn't going to do any good -- she wouldn't be able to see or hear you. At that point it is time to look for clear instructions, and she would be getting that in spades from the FA at that moment. Reassurance isn't going to happen inside the plane; it would happen outside when she found you and knew you were safe. Surely a young lady that age would realize that.

The vast majority of kids today are coddled by their parents. Just check out the Community Board to see how many parents refuse to allow their 12/13 y/o's out of their sight!!! And you think these same kids are going to be able to function in an emergency?

Maybe, maybe not, but I'm confident that my kids are, and I'm willing to bet that at least where fire is concerned, years of drills will kick in for just about any kid who has recently attended school. In the life & death scenario that we are discussing, I feel that my proper choice is to avoid creating more danger than necessary, and doing that means depending on the FA's to do their job and on my kids to do as they have been told to do times past counting.

 

[goofy4tink]

I've been a librarian for 27 years. Of course they didn't follow instructions; kids in school look at a visit to the library as a "get out of class free" card; they think it is playtime.
Not in my library. They had work to do. And their teacher got a full report as to behaviour.



Actually, grownups can and have done that; if they didn't it wouldn't be possible to evacuate a 747 in under 2 minutes. However, what the study that I mentioned showed is that children are MORE likely than adults to do as they are told, because children are used to being told what to do by authority figures other than their parents: they learn this in school. In an emergency, adults are way more likely to try to argue and attempt to assert control than kids are.
I was being somewhat sarcastic. But, I have also heard of many adults pushing and shoving to get out first. Sure, kids are taught in school about fire safety. And they have fire drills. But I still don't think that when a plane is in crisis mode, children are going to react the way you think they are.

And yes, I think that a real crisis tends to bring out maturity more often than not. I'll give you an example: my DS has mild Asperger's and tends to be a bit dependent on routine; he ruffles easily when things don't go as expected. For that reason, his father and I have made a crusade out of disrupting routine just so that he cannot get complacent. When he was 11 I lost him just before the Epcot fireworks during F&W. DH was off riding Soarin by himself. I was dealing with the baby, so I had allowed DS to run on ahead to get to a food stand before it closed for the night, and in his eagerness to get there he didn't listen carefully to my instructions about where to meet me afterward, so he went looking for me in the wrong place, somewhere halfway across the park from where I actually was waiting. I stayed put and did not panic when he didn't appear, and 20 minutes after the fireworks ended he turned up with his father in tow. He told me later that he was scared at first when he didn't find me, but that he realized that he must have made a mistake and needed to think carefully to find a solution. He had seen his Dad's FP in his ticketholder and remembered what ride he was heading for, so he went to the ride exit and waited the 40 minutes until his father got off. He gained a tremendous amount of confidence that day, because he worked out the solution to his problem on his own.

BUT....many parents do not do that type practice with their children. So, kids are left to their own devices.



Yeah, my kids would initially turn to look for me, too, but if there is an emergency evac and you are seated several rows away, turning to you isn't going to do any good -- she wouldn't be able to see or hear you. At that point it is time to look for clear instructions, and she would be getting that in spades from the FA at that moment. Reassurance isn't going to happen inside the plane; it would happen outside when she found you and knew you were safe. Surely a young lady that age would realize that.

Yes, she would. But if she is surrounded by others, who are over=reacting or just trying to get past her, with no regard for her, then yes, she is going to be looking for me. As her mother, I'm going to be looking for her as well.



Maybe, maybe not, but I'm confident that my kids are, and I'm willing to bet that at least where fire is concerned, years of drills will kick in for just about any kid who has recently attended school. In the life & death scenario that we are discussing, I feel that my proper choice is to avoid creating more danger than necessary, and doing that means depending on the FA's to do their job and on my kids to do as they have been told to do times past counting.
Sure, but I still contend there's a huge difference between a fire drill in school and a crisis on a plane. There is no way you are going to be able to adequately prepare a youngster for that. At least I know I'm not.

You make some valid points. But, I feel mine as just as valid.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

One interesting consideration in this discussion is that flights to and Orlando have so many more young children than on typical routes.

When I'm flying somewhere other than Orlando, there are usually a few young children, but not many -- perhaps just one or two. In the unlikely case that a young child is not assigned to sit next to a parent, the airline counter agent or gate agent should be able to reassign their seating from the seats that are under airport control (and were not available to anyone for pre-booking).

Compare that to Orlando flights. During periods when school is not in session, there are plenty of families with children of all ages. When school is in session, there are still plenty of families -- but now most of the children are babies, toddlers, or pre-school age kids. (Families of such young children have learned that WDW crowds are down and prices are lower if they travel when many other families have kids in school.) So you could have a flight with dozens of children under 5 or 6 years old!

Now consider that many of these families will choose to save the cost of "preferred" seats, choosing instead to rely on the seats that the airline assigns to them at 24 hours -- which may or may not be contiguous seats.

Not a good combination!

 

[sam_gordon]

In Horace's scenario, I feel it is incumbent on us (the passengers) to monitor our reservation frequently to ensure no changes were made due to aircraft swaps or timeline shifts. The sooner we notice a change, the more options we have available to rectify any seating shifts.

I disagree. I feel it should be the AIRLINES responsibility to notify the passengers there's going to be a change and help the passengers find an alternative. Granted, that doesn't happen now, and yes, current flyers should check their reservations at least weekly.

 

[seashoreCM]

I called Jet Blue to see if I could link the two reservations...I was told no. That I would have to keep an eye on the flights and if anything changed it was incumbant on me stay on top of it. That's the only time I have less than stellar customer service from JB!!?

Ordinary good customer service would include quietly rebooking the child or the parent to be back on the same plane as the other, upon request, even if the parent did not catch the cancellation right away. This might include forcible booking, which, incidentally, can always be done by pushing just the right buttons (keys).