When will Riviera Sell Out?

[Girlstar30]

Obviously I’m colored by my own experience, but my experience was this. Didn’t know much about DVC at all. Was on my 2nd trip within 12 months and was like, hmm, maybe I should go check this out. I contacted DVC on our check-out day to see if we could tour RIV - I picked RIV to tour instead of PIT because it was the first resort listed, the pictures looked nice, it was pretty close to where we were staying (Coronado), and it seemed to be the cheapest. I really knew nothing at that point other than what my guide told me. As soon as I heard RIV had resale restrictions that PIT did not, I was like, you better show me PIT - that seems like a way less risky proposition in case I ever want to get out of this. Of course, I then started down the rabbit hole of DVC research, and ended up in a different spot. I don’t doubt I’m in a different category of DVC purchaser, but I think anyone considering a $25k+ purchase who hears about those resale restrictions does have a least a slight amount of pause.

It's funny because I knew nothing of restrictions either when i toured for the first time and what i was mad about when touring both Riv and Poly was that Poly had been rolled into an association that already existed and I would be losing years here I thought who are they trying to fool with that, not me

That made riv seem way better to this noob. If I wasn't informed of the resale market I def would have signed up for Riv fully thinking it was the better choice! My guide never mentioned restrictions. By the time he had to disclose i would have already been convinced im sure. What stopped me was that i was one of the few that knew about the resale market and how much cheaper it was and we fell in love with baylake and akv. I asked guide how much would blt be and when he said $275 I ran for the hills

 

[Girlstar30]

Obviously I’m colored by my own experience, but my experience was this. Didn’t know much about DVC at all. Was on my 2nd trip within 12 months and was like, hmm, maybe I should go check this out. I contacted DVC on our check-out day to see if we could tour RIV - I picked RIV to tour instead of PIT because it was the first resort listed, the pictures looked nice, it was pretty close to where we were staying (Coronado), and it seemed to be the cheapest. I really knew nothing at that point other than what my guide told me. As soon as I heard RIV had resale restrictions that PIT did not, I was like, you better show me PIT - that seems like a way less risky proposition in case I ever want to get out of this. Of course, I then started down the rabbit hole of DVC research, and ended up in a different spot. I don’t doubt I’m in a different category of DVC purchaser, but I think anyone considering a $25k+ purchase who hears about those resale restrictions does have a least a slight amount of pause.

I feel like they would have rose colored glasses and think they're never going to sell so who cares

 

[Brian Noble]

Of course!

I have said this many (many!) times, but timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. Most people who are buying a timeshare are not thinking about selling it. They are on vacation, having the time of their lives, when a helpful Guide explains to them how they can bottle this magical feeling "at today's prices" for the next four or five decades, for themselves and their loved ones. So they are thinking about their children (and maybe even grandchildren) enjoying this and thinking of dear old dad from beyond the grave.

 

[Girlstar30]

Of course!

I have said this many (many!) times, but timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. Most people who are buying a timeshare are not thinking about selling it. They are on vacation, having the time of their lives, when a helpful Guide explains to them how they can bottle this magical feeling "at today's prices" for the next four or five decades, for themselves and their loved ones. So they are thinking about their children (and maybe even grandchildren) enjoying this and thinking of dear old dad from beyond the grave.

Im telling you with all the knowledge i have already, the last guide tour of vdh i had the guide really had me wanting vdh even though I had no interest in a Cali resort They really are convincing!

 

[airjay75]

Did you split your contract into smaller contracts? Restrictions def have been on my mind as a "do not buy this resort when there is a popular, unrestricted monorail resort for sale." But I am with you that the direct contract should be buy where you want to stay more.

I posted in another thread that I think small riv contracts have a chance to be really sought after because of the restrictions. Owners may want to supplement their points without committing to a larger contract where they can only stay at Riviera and its solely to add to their current Riviera stays for a night or two or bigger rooms. On the flip side, they could also worry that a smaller contract means less options for room types when rooms that command less points go first, (that would be a concern for me) but I dont think most people think that deep

I also dont see the maint fees here going up too much at Riv. I think if Riv didnt have restrictions it'd be up there in pricing with vgf and Poly only because while those are monorail resorts, riv is a skyliner resort with access to two theme parks. But here we are.

For my initial 300-pt purchase, I split it into 2 150-pt contracts. Figured these are my keepers for the long-term and could potentially pass one on to each of my kids. If and when I buy more, I've convinced myself that whatever amount I buy will be broken up into 50-pt contracts. I like playing around with the "instant sale" tool on dvcresalemarket.com - they'll give you your instant sale price, but also what they think the upper range of a list price should be. The list price recommendation on a fully loaded 50-pt RIV contract goes up to $147 pp; 75-pt contracts drop to $141 pp; 100-pt contracts drop to $137 pp. If you play around on past listings on dvcforless.com, it's also pretty clear that the smaller contracts fetch a premium. I agree with you - I think once the resort is sold out, the premium differential on smaller contracts could increase - I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that a greater percentage of potential RIV resale purchasers (compared to the older resorts) will be those holding direct points and looking to supplement.

 

[airjay75]

You all are probably right about your average buyer not paying much attention at all to the resale restrictions. As much as I can't understand how you wouldn't research the heck out of purchase like that, that probably is most people.

 

[Girlstar30]

For my initial 300-pt purchase, I split it into 2 150-pt contracts. Figured these are my keepers for the long-term and could potentially pass one on to each of my kids. If and when I buy more, I've convinced myself that whatever amount I buy will be broken up into 50-pt contracts. I like playing around with the "instant sale" tool on dvcresalemarket.com - they'll give you your instant sale price, but also what they think the upper range of a list price should be. The list price recommendation on a fully loaded 50-pt RIV contract goes up to $147 pp; 75-pt contracts drop to $141 pp; 100-pt contracts drop to $137 pp. If you play around on past listings on dvcforless.com, it's also pretty clear that the smaller contracts fetch a premium. I agree with you - I think once the resort is sold out, the premium differential on smaller contracts could increase - I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that a greater percentage of potential RIV resale purchasers (compared to the older resorts) will be those holding direct points and looking to supplement.

Thank you! I was wondering this, if it would be better to go 50 50 50 or 75 75. I think its worth the extra closing costs, kind of like an insurance for reselling down the line

Me personally, as a buyer, I would want the 75 pt contract more to supplement, but I know it is more common for DVC members to want studios and not one bedrooms like us.

I think people will be more inclined to think these types of small contracts barely show up and I better give full asking price before someone else snaps it up!

 

[Brian Noble]

The list price recommendation on a fully loaded 50-pt RIV contract goes up to $147 pp; 75-pt contracts drop to $141 pp; 100-pt contracts drop to $137 pp

If I weren't sober, I'd want some of what they are smoking. (And I'm a RIV owner, so I'd like to see the values stay high. But, that's *high*.)

 

[cruisehopeful]

Im telling you with all the knowledge i have already, the last guide tour of vdh i had the guide really had me wanting vdh even though I had no interest in a Cali resort They really are convincing!

VDH is actually a very nice tower and the overall hotel has some good food/lounges now. I think it's unfortunate that it has such high taxes and that it's so close to VGC, that it kind of dumbs down the purchase. Whenever I book VDH, I almost always wait-list VGC and that's only because of the taxes. Paying $60-80/ night for a studio in taxes is annoying.

I remember when BLT was under construction. I sat through a pitch on a cruise and they were pushing BLT, saying that it was a great value. I looked at the concept art and said it was super ugly and that I'd never stay there. Now, when comparing all the one bedrooms across DVC, I think it's totally amazing and I have to keep reminding myself that I don't need more points. As life goes on, priorities change quite a bit.

 

[Girlstar30]

You all are probably right about your average buyer not paying much attention at all to the resale restrictions. As much as I can't understand how you wouldn't research the heck out of purchase like that, that probably is most people.

I have often read stories about people who go on vacation, have a wonderful time and get into a timeshare th3y didnt really understand and then they want to sell it and cant easily sell (not dvc)

The most recent article I read was of a couple who bought $100k worth of timeshare in Mexico, only to have buyers remorse and dispute it with their cc company and receive all the money back! They went online telling people how to get out of their timeshare they're unsatisfied with and then when they went back to Mexico for a vacation they were arrested at the airport for fraud!

Obviously a crazy extreme case with the couple saying that the timeshare company promised them things they weren't getting (timeshares are known to do this) what a mess! I was trying to find details of what exactly was promised that they weren't getting but I couldnt find much, something about them being told they could rent points and then not being able to I think

 

[Brian Noble]

The most recent article I read was of a couple who bought $100k worth of timeshare in Mexico, only to have buyers remorse and dispute it with their cc company and receive all the money back! They went online telling people how to get out of their timeshare they're unsatisfied witj and then when they went back to Mexico for a vacation they were arrested at the airport for fraud!

I followed this on TUG. They got exactly what they signed up for, and so arguably did commit fraud.

When you are given a contract to read and either don't read it or don't understand it, and later decide you don't like it and issue a chargeback, that's not the seller's fault.

 

[Girlstar30]

If I weren't sober, I'd want some of what they are smoking. (And I'm a RIV owner, so I'd like to see the values stay high. But, that's *high*.)

It is dvc resale market after all. They'll tell the buyer they better bite before it gets ROFRed (even when Disney isn't actively ROFR'ing) and a contract would have to be fully stripped to get it lower

 

[Girlstar30]

I followed this on TUG. They got exactly what they signed up for, and so arguably did commit fraud.

When you are given a contract to read and either don't read it or don't understand it, and later decide you don't like it and issue a chargeback, that's not the seller's fault.

This is what I suspected because I couldnt find anywhere what the timeshare actually promised them that they didnt get.

I agree that this is fraud if they used it and then charged it back.

Not surprised then that they felt entitled to go back to Mexico shortly after as if nothing happened

 

[Girlstar30]

VDH is actually a very nice tower and the overall hotel has some good food/lounges now. I think it's unfortunate that it has such high taxes and that it's so close to VGC, that it kind of dumbs down the purchase. Whenever I book VDH, I almost always wait-list VGC and that's only because of the taxes. Paying $60-80/ night for a studio in taxes is annoying.

I remember when BLT was under construction. I sat through a pitch on a cruise and they were pushing BLT, saying that it was a great value. I looked at the concept art and said it was super ugly and that I'd never stay there. Now, when comparing all the one bedrooms across DVC, I think it's totally amazing and I have to keep reminding myself that I don't need more points. As life goes on, priorities change quite a bit.

The rooms are beautiful at vdh inventory agree. Im staying next year and im sour about the taxes as well. We want to use points not money i wonder how long its going to take them to sell out

 

[Sandisw]

Oh snap reading right now!

Well, that assumes same rate of sales….they do some special incentive and it could speed up!!

 

[tidefan]

As life goes on, priorities change quite a bit.

I think that this is one of the best pieces of advice that potential owners/new owners need to hear.

When we bought in 2007, our DD was 4. Now she has graduated college and to say the least, our staying patterns with DVC have changed quite a bit over the years. For us, we have found we go to the parks much less, so stays at something like CFW (where, admittedly, we can bring the dog and drive right up to the door) are perfect. However, the biggest change is that we now plan to go to Aulani (availability permitting!) at least once every 3 years. I know that people say that they like the Big Island, or Maui, or Kauai better, but heck, using points for a 2-bedroom for a week for us is a great use of points (vs. paying to stay at something like that) and we rather like the Ko'Olina/Kapolei area of Oahu. We tell people that DVC has allowed us to have 6 "Once in a Lifetime" trips to Hawaii... (Full Disclosure: Being able to use SW points to get there hasn't hurt either...)

Point being, if I were to "buy where I wanted to stay", that would have changed numerous times over our 18 years of ownership...

 

[Mr_Woodchuck]

If you wonder what the average owner thinks, strike up a conversation in the hot tub.

I bet you'll be surprised at how little they think about it. For most people, it's just vacation.

Isn't that awkward? I try not to make eye contact with anyone if I'm in the hot tub.

 

[Brian Noble]

Depends on the vibe. Some people are more gregarious than others.

 

[muppets3d]

I find the long-time owners at the hot tubs in resorts like SSR and AKV mostly just like to brag about how little they paid for their points 20+ years ago, lol.

 

[tx911]

I find the long-time owners at the hot tubs in resorts like SSR and AKV mostly just like to brag about how little they paid for their points 20+ years ago, lol.

And don't even think about trying to correct for inflation buddy.