Screaming children

[justhat]

I have to agree that WDW is primarily for children, even though it certainly caters to adults as well. I vacationed there before my daughter was born with my husband and with other friends, all childless, but no matter where I looked I saw tons of families, many more than other childless groups. They have nicer restaurants there because kids come with parents, and parents tend to have a greater interest in eating in nicer places. Though I have to say I was never allowed to eat chicken fingers and cheeseburgers for dinner so I would have been eating at the CG then, like I do now. Also, we went there for NYE (to the CG) in 2002 and there were plenty of families there and only 2 childless couples (other than my party). This was $500/adult and $250/child. So clearly these restaurants and not just for adults as we saw plenty of kids there. There is lots stuff for adults, but the bulk of Disney caters to kids.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Disney is very clearly for everyone! I ended up on this board when planning the trip for my DH and myself. So many people literally laughed at us when they found out that we went to WDW without our children. Of course these are people without a life.

My DH had such a wonderful time doing activities that were centered around adults--Segway tour, Cirque, Pleasure Island, etc. There are enough things to do at WDW that everyone can find things to do!

BTW, just because I have children doesn't mean that I need to limit myself to the family board. I do like to think my children are my priorities, but that I do have a life apart from them.

T&B

 

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by Tigger&Belle
Disney is very clearly for everyone! I ended up on this board when planning the trip for my DH and myself. So many people literally laughed at us when they found out that we went to WDW without our children. Of course these are people without a life. ...T&B

Very profound and very true. Disney IS for everyone, not primarily for children or primarily for adults or primarily for dogs or primarily for mice. It is truly for everyone.

 

[KathAnn]

I don't have children, and I adore Disney! It's just a fun place to go and, if like me, you're not posting from the USA, it's a great place to travel to. I enjoy the weather (well, Britain in November is C O L D!), the shops, the nightlife, the parks, the water parks, the cinemas, the restaurants - heck, I even enjoy the 9+ hours it takes to fly there. I haven't had a "bad" holiday anywhere in the USA - I've enjoyed all of them. Ok, I've had a few bumps along the way (see previous postings if you're desperate to hear me whine), but it didn't completely ruin the 2 week holiday.

Disney appeals to the child in all of us - whatever the age. I'm 44, my sister is 42, but we regress to about 10 and 8 when we get there. Tinkerbell flying beside the Castle during the fireworks will elicit the same response from me as it does from the child standing beside me. I actually get a bit scared in the Haunted Mansion (still haven't seen the film yet), but I wouldn't miss at least one trip. The teacup ride still makes me nauseous (but I go on it) but I've discovered that Space Mountain is a complete no-no for me. Alien Encounter gave me nightmares, but I thought it was brilliant. And Small World is my ideal "take a break" ride as it's so gentle and peaceful (sobs quietly as it won't reopen til 2005).

So, as an adult traveller without children I'd have to say that Disney shouldn't be missed.

Two weeks today till we fly out - I can hardly wait!!


:thewave:

 

[TheDuckMan]

You have a backhand dont you....hehe....JUST KIDDING!!!! I am going with my Sister, her husband and there 5 kids. I think they will do good though. They usually are well behaved unless they get tired, hungry, cranky, bored....etc etc...... I usually just try to ignore other kids, but most the time I am too into the attractions to notice them a whole lot.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
Very profound and very true. Disney IS for everyone, not primarily for children or primarily for adults or primarily for dogs or primarily for mice. It is truly for everyone.

You've gone too far--of course it's mainly meant for mice!

The funny thing about me planning such a nice adult vacation, hoping that my DH would want to return with the family (besides my DH and me needing a break from home...) is that he does want to return, but I don't recall him wanting to do it with the kids. Oops, didn't quite go according to plan.

T&B

 

[lunabkat]

Look, I have two kids 3 and 5 (girls) and we are going to disney in december. They can alternately be very good and very "uncooperative", it is the nature of the "beast" so to speak as well as the nature of the "beauty". ( Yes, i think they are adorable and love them beyond all reason, yes i know they can be the biggest stinkers sometimes, and no i don't always handle things easily nor in the best way - but i try to learn what works and what doesn't - don't we all?)

You have to know your kids limits and get them enough rest while they are on this whirlwind ride thru disney. I understand that there are people with/without kids there. Regardless of all the excuses/reasons for bad behavior it comes back to YOU are the parent and it is extremely rude for you to ignore the fact you child is being disruptive/rude/obnoxiously loud, etc. Take responsibility for your own children. How do you expect them to learn how to behave if you "ignore" a screaming meltdown in a restaurant. Get your food to go and get the kid back to the hotel for a nap, swim, down time, whatever.

When you take your kids to disney its for them to have fun, not be dragged from attraction to attraction until they are exhausted. Have some FUN, take the breaks and if you can't do it all, take it in stride. You want them to remember a good time, not a nightmare of cramming in so much they can't enjoy any of it.

And please, if your kid is screaming in a restaurant, have your partner get the stuff to go and bring junior (juniorette) outside for some air and go back to your spot at the hotel and relax. This is the single best piece of workable advice I can give.

Thanks...Good luck to all

 

[totalia]

Originally posted by lunabkat
Look, I have two kids 3 and 5 (girls) and we are going to disney in december. They can alternately be very good and very "uncooperative", it is the nature of the "beast" so to speak as well as the nature of the "beauty". ( Yes, i think they are adorable and love them beyond all reason, yes i know they can be the biggest stinkers sometimes, and no i don't always handle things easily nor in the best way - but i try to learn what works and what doesn't - don't we all?)

You have to know your kids limits and get them enough rest while they are on this whirlwind ride thru disney. I understand that there are people with/without kids there. Regardless of all the excuses/reasons for bad behavior it comes back to YOU are the parent and it is extremely rude for you to ignore the fact you child is being disruptive/rude/obnoxiously loud, etc. Take responsibility for your own children. How do you expect them to learn how to behave if you "ignore" a screaming meltdown in a restaurant. Get your food to go and get the kid back to the hotel for a nap, swim, down time, whatever.

When you take your kids to disney its for them to have fun, not be dragged from attraction to attraction until they are exhausted. Have some FUN, take the breaks and if you can't do it all, take it in stride. You want them to remember a good time, not a nightmare of cramming in so much they can't enjoy any of it.

And please, if your kid is screaming in a restaurant, have your partner get the stuff to go and bring junior (juniorette) outside for some air and go back to your spot at the hotel and relax. This is the single best piece of workable advice I can give.

Thanks...Good luck to all

I agree with you.

 

[underdesea]

lunabkat, you are the type of parent my DH and I admire! Nicely said!

 

[pixiedust23]

When we were younger (I am 22 now) we used to vacation at Disney almost every year. My parents would always go on one of those meal plans so we would end up going to the most expensive restaurants. We were always warned before going in, and we never caused a problem. One time at the Empress Lilly (it was on the river boat where Fulton's is now) we were warned that we better be on our best behavior and try our hardest not to even knock anything over. Needless to say, before the night was over my father had knocked over 2 glasses of water and my brother and I had been perfect angels.

We also used to travel with our cousins, and our parents would allow the 4 (sometimes 5) of us to sit at a table alone, but they're hawk-like eyes were always on us. Once again we never really misbehaved for fear of what punishment 6 parents could come up with when they were working together.

I'm sure we all had our breakdowns but I feel as that if my parents could control my brother and I, then parents today need to step it up and get control of their kids! (As a sidenote: I've read through a lot of stories from parents here, and I would like to thank you for being great parents, or realizing that you're not yet ready to deal with the madness that ensues after having kids!)

 

[delilah]

In my years, I have seen many children in many places have screaming fits. Yes, it is usually because of something parents have done to overstress their child. Twice, my son has embarrassed me at WDW to the point where I wished the earth would open up and swallow me, but, I was really trying to do the right thing at the time. Once was two years ago in December. My son and I went by bus to DTD. We had lunch, and went shopping for a short time. He wanted to buy something, and I didn't, so he had a tantrum. I took him to the bus stop and nearly had to drag him onto the bus. He didn't settle down until we got back to our room. I apologize to anybody who saw my son's tantrum, but, really, what do you expect parents to do if their child is acting up and they didn't bring their own transportation? If he has a tantrum outside Peter Pan, for example, it's going to take a while to walk to the front of the park, and everybody in Fantasyland and on Main Street will have the opportunity to click their tongues and think what an awful mother I am.

Another time, I believe the first time my husband and I went after our son was born (he was three at the time, I believe), we wanted to see the Hall of the Presidents. It was late enough so we would be seeing the last show. He was acting like a normal three year old. He wasn't crying or being loud, just a little antsy because we were way in back, and he couldn't see very well, and the show is a little advanced for that age, but, there were plenty of kids his age there. One old lady apparently felt she needed to click her tongue about that, however, although, I think she wouldn't have liked sitting within three rows of any preschooler.
Keep in mind, if you are an adult, other families have taken time off work to come to WDW and paid for their hotel room and park admission, just like you did. Sometimes new parents don't know just how their young child will act in a new situation. Now, I know not to take him back to Hall of Presidents until he's older (he's six, now, and I think I might try again).

 

[lc1965]

I'm sorry your son had a tantrum because you said no. It must have been very frustrating for you, but you might have thought about not taking him on the bus until he calmed down & taking him out of the attraction when he was clearly disturbing others. It's only fair to the people around you who are NOT the parent. I know that sometimes people have unrealistic expectations about kids' behavior, but parents sometimes have unrealistic expectations about what other people should reasonably tolerate, even at WDW.

 

[justhat]

Delilah, I am so sorry you had to go through a tantrum, as I've been there many times myself (though not yet with my daughter as she's only 8 months old, but with nieces/nephews). I'm sure you did what you thought was right, and I can't say I would have done anything differently either.

When posters like lc1965 say that you should have waited for you child's tantrum to end before boarding the bus, I really get annoyed. First of all, had you waited, I'm sure you would have gotten comments about how sitting at the bus stop with your screaming child annoyed/disturbed the others at the bus stop. So either way you can't win. Also, how are you to know how long the tantrum will last? With kids, those things are so unpredictable, it could have been 2 minutes or 20 minutes. You said he didn't calm down till after you were in the room-so I'm guessing that was at least 20 minutes from when the tantrum started, based on walking to the bus stop, waiting for your bus, the bus ride, plus walking from the resort stop to your room. It might have even been as long as 45 minutes, who knows, but had you just sat at that stop for all that time, wouldn't you have been doing a disservice to the others at the bus stop, and at DTD all the stops are close enough that everyone waiting would have been 'inconvenienced'. Then you would have been written up as the terrible mom who let her kid throw a tantrum at the bus stop.

Should you have taken him out of the Hall of Presidents? Not in my opinion. You said he wasn't crying or being loud. Well what do others expect, total silence? It's not an R rated movie, where you wouldn't expect to see kids (not getting into if there are kids in there making noise), it's WDW where kids are welcome in every attraction. Kids talk/laugh/make noise in every attraction in WDW, so do adults, so should they all be removed? My daughter went to the Hall of Presidents when she was 3 months old and it was her favorite attraction the whole trip. It was the first time she laughed, ever in her life, not just on the trip. Yes, she was laughing and squealing in excitement at these plastic men talking and moving around. Did it disturb others? Possibly so. But she was happy and loved the show so I didn't even consider leaving. We saw it 2 more times on that trip and she loved it each time. I don't think her enjoyment should be compromised anymore than an adult's should be a child. if only one person was bothered by the child's behavior, then it couldn't have been too bad.

Kids aren't quiet creatures by nature. We can try our best to keep them quiet (and I do, though it's easy now cause my daughter is an infant), but sometimes it's not possible. To say someone shouldn't take their child back to the room, but rather wait and let them keep screaming at a bus stop is ridiculous. How is that beneficial to the child. If the child is acting up like that, odds are they need a break/rest, so even if it means they cry on route to that rest, sometimes it's the only option. Keeping the child out, simply so people on the bus get a quiet ride isn't really in the best interest of the child.

So again, Delilah, I think you did a great job with your child, and I agree, parents don't always know what the best solution is at the time they need to decide. What works one time may not work the next, and you only find out through trial and error.

 

[lc1965]

I am not suggesting that the child be kept at the busstop -- as you say that would have been disturbing to another group of people. After all, you have a virtually captive audience for either tantrum location. I am simply saying that there are any number of places where the child could be relocated to deal w/ his overstimulation or rebellion or whatever was the cause of the fuss. We do disagree fundamentally, though, on one thing & we shall have to agree to disagree -- I don't think anyone but the parent need deal with the problem. Often (but certainly not always) parents are ultimately concerned with their own situation & not that of others around them. For example, they are more interested in getting the child to bed than with correcting the behavior & not imposing on others or enjoying their own dinner while letting a child run through a restaurant -- or any of the other scenarios mentioned here. When I was a child I was pulled far away from the people my bad behavior was disturbing & dealt with immediately & firmly. As a result, my sister & I caused few public problems. Also as a result, my sister's daughter is not prone to public displays of temper. It's a series of choices to be made as a parent & as a member of the public. I work with many children in public places & am often the one who has to teach the children how to behave in public while parents & chaperones ignore the issues at hand -- I do this simply as a survival tactic. It always amazes me when parents THANK me. I wonder why they don't do what I do & on a regular basis. So does my mother.

 

[suzifli]

It always amazes me when someone who clearly has no children makes judgement calls on others parenting skills. To suggest that the parents did something wrong because the solution to the situation was to take the child back to the room rather than take them aside and deal with them "firmly" causes others to have to tolerate bad behavior is unreasonable. I cannot profess to know what the definition of "firmly" is to you, however I have a pretty good idea. I agree if a child is willfully disobedient that punishment is necessary, however a small child dealing with the overstimulation that occurs at a place such as Disney when everywhere you turn there are shops designed to instigate the "I wants" from children, taking them back to the hotel to calm down was the right thing to do, even if others had to tolerate a screaming child for the walk and busride. As for correcting other peoples children, some people may take great offense to this. I would have been one of those thanking you. That does not make me a bad parent. I am sure almost every parent would agree that children do not tend to push someone who is not thier parent as much or for as long as they do their parents. The parents are "safe" the kids can let their guard down and of course they are going to keep it up for someone else. They do not know others limits and most often will not push them. I personally do not believe in raising my children to fear me, and small children do not have the capacity to deal with their emotions which many times results in a tantrum. I believe that the "firmly" you talked about was the installation of fear, I also believe that when you raise your child to fear you, you have less of a chance of producing a well adjusted adult. Do not get me wrong, I do not believe in giving in, children need limits and boundries, both learned behaviors. I suggest next time you are having to tolerate someone else's children's behavior, take a step back and show some compassion. If the parent is not giving in such as not buying the child what they want because they are having a tantrum, perhaps a word of encouragement, or even just an understanding smile would help that parent with that wonderful opportunity to teach thier child by experience that behavior like that does not get them what they want, and in fact means for the moment the fun is over. We all have to tolerate behavior from time to time from children and adults that we do not appreciate or is inconvienient or disturbing to our environment. A little compassion goes a long way.

 

[justhat]

Okay, so let's say she doesn't keep the child at the bus stop, you said there are many locations to keep a screaming child, but where in DTD would you suggest? A bench would disturb all the other shoppers/visitors, so that is out. Surly the stroe where he threw the tantrum would be out too. So I'm at a loss as to where I should keep my child if she ever throws a tantrum in DTD so as to avoid distrubing anyone with her behavior. You can be as firm as you want with a young child, but that often will not help at all. I worked in a daycare until my daughter was born, and have tons of experience with toddler tantrums, and sometimes there was imply nothing you could do besides ride it out. If you're in a public place, well then everyone around you will be 'disturbed' by it, but there's no other option. Like it was mentioned, if a kid has a meltdown outside of Peter Pan, and the parent decides it's time to go back to the room and nap or just take a break from the activity, how are they to do that without walking through the whole park to get to the exit, and then on to their transportation? There really isn't another way and in doing so many people will see the tantrum and possibly be annoyed by having their day disrupted. I can't imagine vacationing anywhere that kids are allowed and not seeing at least one screaming child. It will happen.

Often (but certainly not always) parents are ultimately concerned with their own situation & not that of others around them. For example, they are more interested in getting the child to bed than with correcting the behavior & not imposing on others

I'm confused on what the proper way to correct the behavior is. If a 2 year old is crying uncontrollably in a restaurant because he's tired, how do you correct that? Kids cry when they're tired, hungry, frustrated, etc. That's not something you can discipline a kid for, it's part of being a kid. Now if the parent chose to ignore the child's crying to continue eating, and disregarded the child's needs and those of other diners, I could see how it is thinking of themselves only. But if they leave to take the child to bed, how is that not thinking of anyone else? You can't always just stand up and leave when you have kids, sometimes it takes a few minutes to pack things up and get ready, so you might see that kid cry for a few minutes first. In my case I could do that and my husband could get everything else. When we have a few more kids, however, it won't be an option as I can't just leave with the screamer and tell him to get the other 3 kids and all their belongings. It's simply not feasible all the time, so in those cases you may have to put up with screaming for a little while. Judging the parents on those small instances, and saying they're only concerned with their own dinner is very extreme, as they may be trying their best to remedy the situation.

(I am excluding things like kids running around the restaurant, as that is a completely different situation.)

 

[Eeyore's Queen]

I wasn't going to reply but the the last few comments about taking your kids somewhere to calm down before getting on the bus and about disciplining other children annoyed me. I thought of this thread twice yesterday. First was when I went to my 2nd graders Halloween party. I had my 5 year old daughter with me and a friend of mine had her 4 year old daughter with her. Both girls got to sit next to their brothers. My friend's daughter started to hit her brother and was annoying him. The teacher stepped right in and told her to stop it. She of course, stopped. Both my friend and I asked if we could take the teacher home with us. Why? Because other children will usually listen to everyone else but their parents. I could tell my kids to stop hitting each other, etc. until I'm blue in the face but that wouldn't do as much as another adult saying it. My friend asked why my kids are always so well behaved. I had to remind her that my youngest was not there. She has seen him in action. All kids are different.

The second thing happend when I went to the mall last night. I had my youngest 2 kids with me (4 and 5). We were getting icecream when a 2-3 year old had a major meltdown. Kicking , screaming the whole nine yards. The mother had to pick the child up over her shoulder and leave. She looked mortified. I felt for her. I've been there with my youngest. There is just nothing that you can do but leave. My kids were wondering what was wrong with the girl. (Like they have never been there.) LOL

As for discipling harshly, I responded earlier on this thread about how I took my oldest son out of a restaurant a few years ago when he was having a tantrum. (very unlike him) All I did was talk harshly to him outside when some man yelled at me to be easier on him. He wasn't kidding. He was a real jerk. He had no idea why I was raising my voice with my child (outside) and it was none of his business. I wasn't hitting my child, but all he would have had to do is call the police. Then what? I am very leary how I discipline in public now. So before other people judge parents, they really do need to know the whole story. I don't agree with letting your kids run around and cause chaos, but having a tantrum is another issue.

Sorry so long.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by justhat
...I'm confused on what the proper way to correct the behavior is. If a 2 year old is crying uncontrollably in a restaurant because he's tired, how do you correct that? Kids cry when they're tired, hungry, frustrated, etc. That's not something you can discipline a kid for, it's part of being a kid. ...

My take on this one is that the parent knows how long their child can continue until they are tired. So if the parent has made a late dinner seating because it was the only one they could get, they probably knew in advance that their kiddo was going to be tired and hungry long before they were served their dinner. I see far too many kids being pushed around the parks in strollers who are whining and crying only because Mom and Dad wanted to stay in the park longer to do more/see more. I was amazed to see so many small children at the Halloween party at 11PM. They probably should have been in bed hours before that.

Just because you are at WDW, a nice dining facility, etc., doesn't mean that you should upset your child's normal schedule. It's bound to cause the poor kid a problem. Only Mom and Dad know now long their kiddo will last before they can't take any more. Don't ignore that knowledge that only you have.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Deb, that is true and parents also generally know if they have a child who is more sensitive to overstimulation or a child who does well with it.

My son, for instance, is a high needs kind of kid (at almost 5yo), but he loves the activity of WDW. He can go fairly long hours without major problems because he enjoys himself so much. He is by no means perfect (don't I wish!), but he doesn't do any worse at WDW than at home.

And as far as the child who screamed the whole way to the room on the bus, it's called a major meltdown. It's difficult to witness, even harder for the parents to try and deal with, and it must be downright frightening for the child to go through. An understanding smile from a stranger would go a long way in helping the parents to realize that "this, too, shall pass".

Not all kids go through this--my first child was fairly tempermental and had her share of tantrums, but, being the firstborn, life was pretty good for her. My second was faily easy going and my third was a dream! Then I had Jake... He has tested every parenting theory that I've ever had (and since I'd had a few kids I had quite a few theories). Yes, he's the one that is the reason for my "these are the good ole days" tag, something that I remind myself every day!

More sympathy from strangers in many respects would be a wonderful thing!



T&B

 

[Scrappymags]

Oh why not comment. I'm 30, single, kid-free, and a soon to be high school teacher. If I don't want to be around kids - flat out, I'm not going to Disney for vacation! It's just NOT the place to go. You're gonna see a few tantrums, you're gonna see some parents losing it. The upside is seeing all the kids dressed up or that look of wonderment, etc. I have no kids, but of course, I love kids being a teacher. One morning when I soloed at Disney, a little 7 yr old boy started talking to me. I wound up having breakfast with his family! They were so nice!!

I agree that parents need to monitor their kids, but let's face it folks - there are crappy parents out there, and NO ONE thinks they are that bad parent. The people who are posting here about how they discipline or remove their kids when they misbehave or throw tantrums - no matter WHAT situation are NOT the "problem people" being discussed (that I can tell). Those people (not the ones commenting here) are completely clueless, either by choice or ignorance to when their kids are really disturbing others. Frankly from what I see, they don't care. They feel that their kids can do no wrong. Don't get hyper-sensitive parents!!. The ones that are annoying are the ones who do nothing when their child is screaming. Unfortunately, the best remedy is just to remove yourself from the situation if you can.