School shooting in Parkland, FL

[luvsJack]

Most school rooms do not have an additional exit, but that would be ideal. Having to run out of the room and down a hall to a central exit could take a while and be dangerous. Our school does drills for these situations and the kids are told to huddle together behind the teachers desk. Not sure if the doors lock or not. I heard this particular shooter shot through the glass into the classrooms.

The cell phone videos were terrifying.

And most don’t have the funds to change the design of the classrooms. But then would it be safe to exit the room? Remember that they have no way of knowing if there is more than one shooter.

Our high school doors are locked. They open easy from the inside but are locked to someone coming in. They are instructed to huddle down as far from the doors and windows as possible.

Personally I think we need more campus police on high school campuses at least. And I have no problem with armed administrators as long as they have the required training.

 

[lifesavacation]

And most don’t have the funds to change the design of the classrooms. But then would it be safe to exit the room? Remember that they have no way of knowing if there is more than one shooter.

Our high school doors are locked. They open easy from the inside but are locked to someone coming in. They are instructed to huddle down as far from the doors and windows as possible.

Personally I think we need more campus police on high school campuses at least. And I have no problem with armed administrators as long as they have the required training.

If we can’t change the gun issue as a country, the federal govt can at least put money towards making all classrooms safe in case of emergency. Putting an extra exit in classrooms without one is doable. Trying to change the 2nd amendment is really not likely to ever happen.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Do you? Are you sending them lots of warm fuzzy thoughts and prayers to get them through today, tonight, and the rest of their lives?

Obviously, these sentiments mean nothing to you. But just maybe, they will give some solace to those affected. IMO... definitely worth sharing the feelings, even if the chance is small, that they may provide some comfort.

It’s society that has the problem. Sooo much wrong....too much focus on the wrong issues. JMHO

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I knew the car comparison would come up and it's completely apples & oranges. First off, cars aren't typically being used as weapons. The CDC studied ways to make automotive accidents more preventable and survivable. Homicides aren't accidents.

Your premise was that CDC should only study diseases, and not objects. Car is an object. Firearm is an object. CDC studies more than disease. They study anything affecting public health. Except for firearms, since Congress has banned them from doing that. What would be the concern with conducting studies?

 

[luvsJack]

If we can’t change the gun issue as a country, the federal govt can at least put money towards making all classrooms safe in case of emergency. Putting an extra exit in classrooms without one is doable. Trying to change the 2nd amendment is really not likely to ever happen.

I don’t want to change it.

But a second exit may not make it safer. What happens when there is more than one shooter, the kids run out that exit and there the shooter is. Remember most of the time these shooters are either current or former students so they are going to know where the exits go.

Our high school has quite a few classrooms that open to the outside. The back of the classroom is the back of the building It would take a shooter about .5 seconds to get from one door to another. They would have to completely rebuild.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Just another day in America, God bless it. This is the most narcissistic, me me me country in the world. Until that changes, nothing will get done.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Your premise was that CDC should only study diseases, and not objects. Car is an object. Firearm is an object. CDC studies more than disease. They study anything affecting public health. Except for firearms, since Congress has banned them from doing that. What would be the concern with conducting studies?

Car crashes are still a "health" issue. Homicide is a crime issue. And the FBI is already on it.

There's no real knowledge to be gained from a "health" perspective when it comes to firearms because people who shoot other people don't WANT the people shot to avoid being shot, nor to survive their wounds.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

I am reluctant to get involved in this conversation because I don't know what the right answer is. However, can you cite a source for 19 school shootings? Obviously, even one is too many... but CNN is reporting four school shootings in 2018. That's a lot fewer than 19. (Still four too many, of course.) https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/us/school-shootings-in-2018/index.html

Some sites include shootings involving suicide, if it happened on school property, as well as shootings that have happened around the schools with bullets striking the school in some manner.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And most don’t have the funds to change the design of the classrooms. But then would it be safe to exit the room? Remember that they have no way of knowing if there is more than one shooter.

Our high school doors are locked. They open easy from the inside but are locked to someone coming in. They are instructed to huddle down as far from the doors and windows as possible.

Personally I think we need more campus police on high school campuses at least. And I have no problem with armed administrators as long as they have the required training.

Just a snippet I saw in one article:

"Students were running out into the streets as SWAT team members swarmed in. “It was crazy and my daughter wasn’t answering her phone,” he said.

According to Figueroa, she texted him that she was hidden in a school closet with friends after she heard gunshots.

Schools in the Broward district typically have one or two school resource officers, typically Broward County Sheriff deputies who are armed and always on campus. Schools also employ campus monitors, who patrol the halls with walkie talkies but are not armed, and a security specialist, usually a retired sheriff’s department employee who helps the school plan and maintain its security protocols but is not armed. Melita said he wasn’t specifically familiar with Douglas High’s security setup.

Since heading up security at Broward schools in 2000, Melita said he directed schools to implement shelter-in-place plans and practice several drills a years, in collaboration with local police and fire departments. Melita underwent training by the U.S. Secret Service and implemented many of the lessons into district-wide plans, including implementing a single-point-of-entry in schools and driver license scans for visitors. The plan is not always full-proof, he said.

“If someone wants to get in, they’re going to get in,” Melita said. “You just have to make it as hard as possible for them.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ida-school-shooting-former-student/338874002/

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Cars have very much been used as weapons lately. Charlottesville, NYC, London, France...

True, but that's not really the focus.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

And most don’t have the funds to change the design of the classrooms. But then would it be safe to exit the room? Remember that they have no way of knowing if there is more than one shooter.

Our high school doors are locked. They open easy from the inside but are locked to someone coming in. They are instructed to huddle down as far from the doors and windows as possible.

Personally I think we need more campus police on high school campuses at least. And I have no problem with armed administrators as long as they have the required training.

Also, at least here in Florida and in Vegas, the high school are very open. The one DS will be attending next year has a huge center courtyard. More than one building. It's the same with his old elementary and current middle school...multiple buildings, open center courtyards; the only real difference is the size of the buildings (elementary was small, middle school has 2 story buildings, high school is very widely laid out). The elementary school had two doors to each room, whether they opened into the room next door or to a separate exit, including the portables. The middle school had two doors to most rooms, leading to the same hallway; not sure about the high school yet.

just a note, there was a Broward police post at the school. I'm not sure how many officers they had on patrol at that time.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Car crashes are still a "health" issue. Homicide is a crime issue. And the FBI is already on it.

There's no real knowledge to be gained from a "health" perspective when it comes to firearms because people who shoot other people don't WANT the people shot to avoid being shot, nor to survive their wounds.

That is your opinion. The opinion of the American Medical Association is that gun violence is a public health issue.

Really, what is so scary about pursuing research in this area? Won't it just uncover what some have been saying all along - that "gun free zones" are the real issue and we just need to arm more people????

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Omg, you really didn't get the sarcasm.



Not true most states have a gun safety course to get a license to carry.

I have guns. I also have a gun safe & a fingerprint lockbox. Don't blame responsible gun owners for the acts of whackos.

Well of course everyone is a responsible gun owner until they aren't. I really despise the term "responsible gun owner". To me it says "I responsibly own a killing machine". A gun has one purpose: To Kill.

 

[TLSnell1981]

My 5 year old DGS overheard us discussing the shooting. He asked, how someone snuck in to the school with a gun. He wanted to know, who let him in and why they didn’t see the big gun.

Geesh, a 5 year old realizes the security issues/failure. Even if on a simple level.

 

[Claudia1]

Has anyone heard how he got into the school? Heartbreaking.

 

[anniemae]

And most don’t have the funds to change the design of the classrooms. But then would it be safe to exit the room? Remember that they have no way of knowing if there is more than one shooter.

Our high school doors are locked. They open easy from the inside but are locked to someone coming in. They are instructed to huddle down as far from the doors and windows as possible.

Personally I think we need more campus police on high school campuses at least. And I have no problem with armed administrators as long as they have the required training.

The thing is, every situation is so different it is hard to plan for all potential scenarios. The shooter could be outside, could be inside, could be going room to room, could run into a crowded cafeteria, a second exit could be helpful, could be unhelpful, could be one shooter, could be multiple shooters. In this case the shooter was shooting through the windows into the classroom, so bullet proof glass would have been helpful. It's like they have to outfit the school for every scenario. Police on hs campuses would be nice, but would also cost money. Don't know the answer.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Also from the article above, it sounds like it was pretty chaotic both inside and outside the school.

It sounds like there was a fire alarm pulled, and when kids started running out, shots were fired, then students were told to shelter in place.

Additionally, smoke bombs were reported.

"Israel said the shooter was outside and inside the school at points during the attack.

Joe Melita, former head of the Professional Standards & Special Investigative Unit at Broward County Public Schools, said students at Douglas High appeared to be evacuating classes after someone pulled the fire alarm when shots rang out and students were told to shelter in place.

There may also have been smoke bombs involved, school district security officials told him. He said several district security officials knew of the shooter. “They were familiar with who the young man was,” said Melita, now a visiting professor at Lynn University in Boca Raton."

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Has anyone heard how he got into the school? Heartbreaking.

There are reports a fire alarm was pulled, and students were evacuating.

I believe two of the dead were outside the building.

 

[lifesavacation]

I don’t want to change it.

But a second exit may not make it safer. What happens when there is more than one shooter, the kids run out that exit and there the shooter is. Remember most of the time these shooters are either current or former students so they are going to know where the exits go.

Our high school has quite a few classrooms that open to the outside. The back of the classroom is the back of the building It would take a shooter about .5 seconds to get from one door to another. They would have to completely rebuild.

Oh, I wasn't saying you wanted to change the 2nd amendment. I was saying in a general sense that we aren't going to change it so we need to focus on other safety measures.

The shooter is said to have shot through the door glass from the hallway and then shot at the kids that were huddled by the teacher's desk. YMMV, but I would much rather my child find an immediate exterior exit and run away than hide behind a desk. And I suppose there could be 2 shooters like in Columbine, but even in that case the shooters stayed together inside the building. I'm sure there's been one because there's been so many, but I can't recall a school shooter ever waiting outside to shoot children as they exited to the outside (not the interior). The federal govt. has the money to fix the structure of schools to make them safer.

I'm all for armed guards in schools too. The safety officers in my daughter's school aren't armed. That's not even helpful in a situation like this. The federal govt. has the money to fund this too.

Anything we can do outside of the 2nd amendment is doable.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That is your opinion. The opinion of the American Medical Association is that gun violence is a public health issue.

Really, what is so scary about pursuing research in this area? Won't it just uncover what some have been saying all along - that "gun free zones" are the real issue and we just need to arm more people????

Wouldn't violence IN GENERAL be a health issue? Study the behavior & it's cause, not the object(s) utilized.