School shooting in CO

[cjbcam]

In Canada there is only a very small part of the population that own guns:

Law enforcement officers and military members (most don't actually "own" these guns but carry them on the job)

Hunters

Gang Members

Therefore when a mentally ill person goes "off" they more often than not do not have a gun at the ready.

Almost everyone I know has a gun. Yes they all hunt or target shoot but they are everywhere. You have to keep them locked up but anyone could get one.
I hate guns but I have no clue as to how to stop the shootings. I am a firm believer in guns don't kill people. People kill people. Just like if someone gets killed by a drunk driver you don't blame the car you blame the driver. So sad this happens I wish it would stop.

 

[Schmeck]

Almost everyone I know has a gun. Yes they all hunt or target shoot but they are everywhere. You have to keep them locked up but anyone could get one.
I hate guns but I have no clue as to how to stop the shootings. I am a firm believer in guns don't kill people. People kill people. Just like if someone gets killed by a drunk driver you don't blame the car you blame the driver. So sad this happens I wish it would stop.

But you have to remember that a car has another purpose intended - it is made as a form of transportation. What other purpose does a gun have other than to shoot bullets?

My thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

That is what the government and the upper 1% want: take away your guns, reduce your liberties, bring in Marshall law and control you.

I don't know any info about this shooting but has anyone ever noticed when something like this happens it always seems to be a drill that goes live.

not sure what the one percent has to do with anything?

Who gave up our liberties after 9/11 in the name of terrorism? Who wants to limit reproductive freedom, our ability to love who we want, continue to criminalize recreational drugs, etc?

 

[TinkerBelled]

It's so terribly sad.

We can't see this as a one-pronged issue, surely. As a country (not limited specifically to this situation) there are many issues at play.

In part, it's about too-easy access to dangerous weapons. And I mean many things by access, both personal and institutional: people not locking up their guns at home; lack of background checks at gun shows; lack of parental supervision of firearms; no training or licensing required. (Let's make sure it's a well-regulated militia; there should be extensive training required for a gun license, much as there is a car license, and those found with a gun without a license should face very serious penalties.)

In part, it's about socio-economic problems and the dearth of decent jobs in so many areas of our country. I used to live in a town where a quarter of the town was employed in three factories. When the factories shut down, the unemployment rate hit 70% in that neighborhood and the number of murders quadrupled in five years. Desperate people turn to desperate measures; that's the way it's always been.

In part, it's about lack of funding for mental health care in this country. This is a societal problem and it deserves a societal solution. It might take more spending, which might mean more taxes; I think we're all better for it.

In part, it's about borders. Jenna, you're right that there are far too many gun deaths in Chicago, despite the gun laws. However, part of the problem is that you don't have to drive particularly far, nor over any kind of enforceable border, to buy a gun. More than a quarter of guns are bought just outside the city limits. It's unreasonable to expect a city's gun laws to work when one only has to drive five miles to buy a gun perfectly legally. (For more, see http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/us/strict-chicago-gun-laws-cant-stem-fatal-shots.html?_r=0)

It's also about culture. And I'm not talking here about (or only about) music or video games, but also about a culture in which gun violence is more or less accepted. This was barely a news story yesterday. If there was a school shooting like this in the UK (i.e. only the gunman was killed), it would be the top news story for a week. In many other countries, faced with mass shootings, the country responded with restrictions and gun crime plummeted. (For example, take Australia, which also had a long tradition of a cowboy culture; following shootings in 1996, serious restrictions were put into place, which dropped gun-related deaths by 47% and almost three times fewer guns are stolen per year.) Would it be the same in America? Probably not entirely. But part of fixing the culture of guns is making gun deaths not a regrettable accident but entirely unacceptable.

 

[Missy1961]

That is what the government and the upper 1% want: take away your guns, reduce your liberties, bring in Marshall law and control you.

I don't know any info about this shooting but has anyone ever noticed when something like this happens it always seems to be a drill that goes live.

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Domo]

There's a weird cultural thing here. In the UK we have very few guns and some tough gun laws and to be honest, we aren't fussed. However, in the USA, there seems to be somewhat of a gun culture, where many actually prize them. I doubt that either side of the divide will ever understand the other.

 

[LilyWDW]

I know you guys think I'm nuts about this but rise in drugging children has seen rise in school shootings and higher violence rate in teens.

You can ignore it all you want but I swear the adhd Meds are part of it.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Did you know that as sea temperatures increase so does the number of pirates? I guess that warmer waters are to blame for all those pirate attacks!

See how silly it sounds.

Then again, it seems that everything has to do with ADHD and meds to you. Even with things that have NOTHING to do with it. Please stop stretching and trying to force it to fit. No one will take it seriously at this point even IF you were correct.

 

[OceanAnnie]

There's a weird cultural thing here. In the UK we have very few guns and some tough gun laws and to be honest, we aren't fussed. However, in the USA, there seems to be somewhat of a gun culture, where many actually prize them. I doubt that either side of the divide will ever understand the other.

Respectfully, it's not a weird cultural thing.

At the heart of the issue is the constitution. In a nutshell our constitution provides for protection against tyranny. Whether or not a person "agrees" with it does not change it's intended purpose. It is what it is.

That being said, do we need measures in place to bar the mentally ill from owing guns? Yes.

 

[skatalite]

There's a weird cultural thing here. In the UK we have very few guns and some tough gun laws and to be honest, we aren't fussed. However, in the USA, there seems to be somewhat of a gun culture, where many actually prize them. I doubt that either side of the divide will ever understand the other.

It is sort of a cultural thing, but not in the sense that Americans worship the firearm. We're one of the youngest nations in the world, and we won our sovereignty by winning a war using firearms.

Since firearms are the most accessible personal protection tool, and since they're considered the great equalizer, our Founding Fathers deemed it necessary to protect our right to own them by authoring the Second Amendment.

We're a nation that was born from war, gunpowder and technology. So, it's kind of in our genes.

 

[Domo]

Respectfully, it's not a weird cultural thing.

At the heart of the issue is the constitution. In a nutshell our constitution provides for protection against tyranny. Whether or not a person "agrees" with it does not change it's intended purpose. It is what it is.

But that IS the very definition of a cultural thing.

cultural differences: ethnic, racial, folk; societal, lifestyle.

Your constitution offers you the right to possess weapons insofar as they are part of a well organised militia. Now, you can argue that part until the cows come home, but you have to realise that YOUR culture has YOUR constitution whereas MY culture DOES NOT universally protect your right to be armed.

 

[OceanAnnie]

But that IS the very definition of a cultural thing.



Your constitution offers you the right to possess weapons insofar as they are part of a well organised militia. Now, you can argue that part until the cows come home, but you have to realise that YOUR culture has YOUR constitution whereas MY culture DOES NOT universally protect your right to be armed.

IMO you may be confusing laws with culture. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Now that is something to debate.

No need to yell about it.

 

[Domo]

IMO you may be confusing laws with culture. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Now that is something to debate.

No need to yell about it.

Who's yelling? The egg?

Laws and culture go hand in hand. What is acceptable for the people and what is not and so on. As I said, your cultural preference is in favour of lethal firearms whilst ours is not. This cultural divide has plus points and down points for both concerned.

BTW, IMO the egg came first as eggs existed before the chickens were classified as such. Just sayin'.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Who's yelling? The egg?

Laws and culture go hand in hand. What is acceptable for the people and what is not and so on. As I said, your cultural preference is in favour of lethal firearms whilst ours is not. This cultural divide has plus points and down points for both concerned.

BTW, IMO the egg came first as eggs existed before the chickens were classified as such. Just sayin'.

Our law was established long ago for protection. I have read many stories where people used firearms wisely and prevailed against evil. It's not all misuse and doom.

For the record, a fist can be a lethal weapon. Check out the knock out game.

 

[Domo]

Interestingly, the use of firearms in the US chiefly focuses around suicide.

Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States.

Additionally, there are approximately one firearm for every person in the USA, excluding military firearms.

The Congressional Research Service in 2009 estimated there were 310 million firearms in the United States, not including weapons owned by the military. 114 million of these were handguns, 110 million were rifles, and 86 million were shotguns. In that same year, the Census bureau stated the population of people in the United States at 305,529,237.

As for the defence question, I always find this dubious. Whilst it is true that stopping a homicidal maniac in his or her tracks using a firearm is very possible, getting the drop on them is not. Scenario: armed person knocks on your door. You open that door. He shoots you. What does NOT happen is you excuse yourself to go and fetch your firearm and shoot them first.

However, if you are in a school and you hear gunshots, as a teacher you can arm yourself and protect your students should the need arise.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

 

[DatMouse]

So horrific and sad. And no doubt, the NRA will soon be saying that we need "more guns" and "guns in schools", so that the "good guys with guns can shoot the bad guys with guns". Yeah, guns for everyone. That's gonna solve the problem.

People keep forgetting (or maybe the just don't care) that the NRA members are just Citizens like themselves.

 

[NHTikiBeckie]

Hmmm.. wonder if there were ADHD drugs in 1764, the first documented school shooting, where a headmaster and 10 children were shot.

or

the 2 in the 1850s (1853 and 1859)

School Shootings by Decade - (a few were accidents, but most were anger incidents)


1860's - 3
1870's - 4
1880's - 5
1890'a - 11
1900-1909 - 26
1910's - 9
1920's - 4
1930's - 12
1940's - 13
1950's - 21
1960's - 16
1980's - 24
1990's - 34
2000 - 40
2010's - 46 so far.

When you take into account the population growth, school shootings are pretty consistent per decade since the 1800's.

This decade is awfully high, but since adhd drugs have been around since the 70's, you cannot blame it on the drugs. Especially since 1900 - 1909 had a huge amount in relation to the population of students and there were no adhd drugs at that time.

I really wish you would stop your campaign on adhd meds. I have adhd. I take adhd meds as does one of my children (it is familial.) It is just as legitimate a chemical imbalance as my thyroid not working and having to take synthroid to compensate.

The way I feel with the meds is incredible compared to when I don't take them

You are making kids that need their meds feel like outcasts.

Stop being logical!

 

[OceanAnnie]

Interestingly, the use of firearms in the US chiefly focuses around suicide.



Additionally, there are approximately one firearm for every person in the USA, excluding military firearms.



As for the defence question, I always find this dubious. Whilst it is true that stopping a homicidal maniac in his or her tracks using a firearm is very possible, getting the drop on them is not. Scenario: armed person knocks on your door. You open that door. He shoots you. What does NOT happen is you excuse yourself to go and fetch your firearm and shoot them first.

However, if you are in a school and you hear gunshots, as a teacher you can arm yourself and protect your students should the need arise.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

As for the defense scenario you provided, it is but one possibility from a vast array.

While I do think something should be done from the mental health aspect, the bottom line is we aren't going to agree on the whole.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

People keep forgetting (or maybe the just don't care) that the NRA members are just Citizens like themselves.

The NRA is primarily the lobbying arm of the gun and related products manufacturing industry. That was and remains their primary objective, they merely leverage their members to make their case. It represents the wishes of it's primary financial backers, i.e. the gun manufacturers.

 

[Domo]

the bottom line is we aren't going to agree on the whole.

Mm-hmm

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I am a firm believer that nobody but law enforcement should have a gun.

The fact is that gun ownership makes you somewhere between 4-7 times more likely to be shot by that very gun. In 2011, Americans were 10 times more likely to be shot because they were arguing with someone than they were defending their home from a home intruder. For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

There is no reason to own a gun unless you intend to use it to shoot another human being.